Cleveland Cavaliers 2009-2010 Jersey Log

[infrared41]

Except that nobody has disagreed with anything any more intelligent than "who cares what they wear?" or "don't pick on Cleveland pick on someone else!" or "everyone hates Cleveland!".

Step back for a minute and re-read the whole thread, as well as the ones I posted. I think that there was some good debating in those threads, but this thread has been "quit picking on Cleveland", "woe is me", "fire Omar!". Well, maybe not that last one.

What fun would that be? It's much more fun to swoop in and talk out of my ass. Seriously though, you do have a point.

On topic, I thought I presented a pretty decent counterpoint to the idea that the alternates are resulting in the Cavs "watering down their brand." Thoughts?

Oh and FIRE OMAR!

Yeah... I disagree! I think that the jerseys are extremely important, since that's what the players are actually wearing in the games and in posters and promotional materials. Maybe not so much if the team doesn't have any "stars", but nearly every shot of LeBron that anyone will see has him wearing a Cavs uniform - and if the logo is visible at all, it's really small.

Fire Omar!

But it was still better than "who cares" right? I see what you're saying but I don't think there's any real danger of screwing up the overall brand. Not yet anyway. Jerseys are important but they aren't enough to screw the entire brand.

The Mets front office is filled with idiots. FIRE OMAR! Morons....nothing but morons....running The Mets.

[The_Admiral]

Sometimes I look up words in my posts to see how often they're used here. Can you believe I'm only the second person to ever mention Philip Roth (Brian in Boston mentioned picking up The Plot Against America)?

Yeah. I can believe it because most of the people here aren't all that concerned with dropping names for the sole purpose of hoping it makes them look smart. What's next? A Daniel Dennett reference?

I just thought more people here would've mentioned reading him in a "what are you reading" thread, was all.

[crashcarson15]

The only one I have a real problem with is the wine and gold throwback.

Are all y'all complaining about the Raptors having 4 jerseys this year? Or the Blazers having (at least) 4?

Seriously, most teams have an alternate and a good number add a throwback a year.

This thread was started about the Cavs. If it was started about any of those other teams, then we'd be commenting on them. Personally, I don't see enough of those other teams to know what their issues may be, but it's irrelevant to this thread anyway. The whole "it's OK because someone else also did it" thing never works. If it did, nobody would ever get speeding tickets.

See, the thing is is that this has been discussed multiple times over the past year or two though. Honestly, I hate the wine and gold fauxbacks but love the royal and orange. It's all about personal opinoin.

And yeah, seeing the Lakers, Cavs, Celtics, Magic, and Suns every night doesn't help those other teams

[BBTV]

The only one I have a real problem with is the wine and gold throwback.

Are all y'all complaining about the Raptors having 4 jerseys this year? Or the Blazers having (at least) 4?

Seriously, most teams have an alternate and a good number add a throwback a year.

This thread was started about the Cavs. If it was started about any of those other teams, then we'd be commenting on them. Personally, I don't see enough of those other teams to know what their issues may be, but it's irrelevant to this thread anyway. The whole "it's OK because someone else also did it" thing never works. If it did, nobody would ever get speeding tickets.

See, the thing is is that this has been discussed multiple times over the past year or two though. Honestly, I hate the wine and gold fauxbacks but love the royal and orange. It's all about personal opinoin.

And yeah, seeing the Lakers, Cavs, Celtics, Magic, and Suns every night doesn't help those other teams

I'm not sure you get it - it's not about whether or not you or any of us like or dislike any of their uniform choices, it's about whether or not you feel that it dilutes their identity. Loving or hating one or all of them doesn't really matter... at least not here.

[VandyDelphia Mike]

The blue alternates make no sense, the striping on them is out of nowhere

It's a striping pattern that harkens back to another era of Cavalier basketball. Another era that at one time or another, the LeBrons threw back to.

The navy blues don't copy the pattern 100%, but there is clear inspiration. The primary whites and reds could probably use the same pattern so that the striping would seem less out of nowhere.

[powersurge]

The blue alternates make no sense, the striping on them is out of nowhere

It's a striping pattern that harkens back to another era of Cavalier basketball. Another era that at one time or another, the LeBrons threw back to.

The navy blues don't copy the pattern 100%, but there is clear inspiration. The primary whites and reds could probably use the same pattern so that the striping would seem less out of nowhere.

I'm starting to loathe the word "throwback". Its starting to symbolize everything I hate about pretentious attempts to glorify the past by reintroducing old crap to sell more stuff. I was walking in a supermarket yesterday and came across 'Pepsi Throwback' and nearly threw up.

[BBTV]

I wonder who actually coined the term "throwback". I remember back in the day, those kinds of jerseys were just called TBTC or "nostalgia" jerseys, not "retro" or "throwback".

[powersurge]

I wonder who actually coined the term "throwback". I remember back in the day, those kinds of jerseys were just called TBTC or "nostalgia" jerseys, not "retro" or "throwback".

Well who ever he is he needs a big kick in the nuts. I hate that word.

I actually think that I read somewhere on this site that the reason why the word was created was to differentiate between a "throwback" (which is inspired by or derived from a vintage uniform of the past) and a "nostalgia" or "TBTC" jersey (which are exact replicas of an old jersey...i.e. like in baseball with baggy pants and hats with small brims). Seems like there isn't really a difference to me....they all suck.

[Glover]

The Cavs do have too many uniforms. As much as I love the look of the "CavFanatic" jerseys, they are pointless. Also, do they even have a primary road jersey anymore? If anything, I'd say the blue is the primary now and the wine is the alternate. I like the idea of having throwbacks, but I would only wear them maybe two or three times a year.

[supermati]

They are finally wearing their primary red jerseys tonight against the Heat, first time they wear them since 2010 started.

[andrewharrington]

I'm not sure you get it - it's not about whether or not you or any of us like or dislike any of their uniform choices, it's about whether or not you feel that it dilutes their identity. Loving or hating one or all of them doesn't really matter... at least not here.

I'm not sure you get it, either. You and everyone else seem to be judging the Cavaliers' brand on the same criteria that you judge the brands of the Lakers, Celtics, Bulls, etc. Maybe if the Cavaliers had the the things that support the kind of brand that those teams have: the history, the fan following, the big media, the championship pedigree, the legendary alumni, you could make that case. The fact is, they don't, and I don't think they ever will, no matter how many championships they win or don't win, and that's always been the nature of this particular franchise. For better or worse, the Cavaliers' 'brand' has always been its lack thereof; it's 'the flavor of the week sells the most swag' mentality. For the most part, it's worked for them to the extent that they still exist through all the terrible years in a town where they've always played third fiddle to the Browns and the Indians.

Is it the way I'd draw up a marketing plan from the beginning? Probably not, but is the philosophy making the most of the asset they have available to them at the current time? Absolutely. Soon enough the cycle will begin again.

[infrared41]

Just an observation.

I tuned in to the Cavs-Heat game when I got home tonight and the Cavs looked "weird" to me in their "primary" road jerseys. When a team starts to look strange in their primary uniform it just might be a sign that backing off a little on the alternates might not be bad idea.

[infrared41]

it's not about whether or not you or any of us like or dislike any of their uniform choices, it's about whether or not you feel that it dilutes their identity. Loving or hating one or all of them doesn't really matter... at least not here.

When did we come up with a set of hard and fast rules on what "matters" around here in general and in this thread in particular? Is there a thread I can reference to find the official position on the use of alternate jerseys? Did I miss the ground rules on what constitutes an acceptable reply in this thread?

I get both sides of the argument and I fully understand your position on the issue. That being said, I think you need to understand that not every reply in this thread is going address your argument point by point. That's just how it is. Deal with it or lose your mind arguing about it.

I'm beginning to think you're letting Saintsfan get to you and it's starting to carry over into the rest of your work around here.

[ESTONES6]

I dunno. I don't think its dramatic difference in treatment, but i know i caught a lot of heat for having a love for Cleveland. I would be called a homer for everything, even when i was not even defending Cleveland. So i guess i can understand, but it's something i just shake off because, it's an online forum.

As for the idea of lessening the Brand... i get it... i do. I am also on record as saying how i love franchises like the Lakers, the Yankees, the Browns, who have kept the same basic colors and styles to all their uniforms throughout the year. If it were up to me, the Cavs would have the original uniforms with the "feather C" logo. a White home, wine road, and gold alternate.

But there are 2 arguments that defend the Cavs. The first being how we are a small market city (see me previous post). The second is this: The casual fan does not care 1 bit about the vintage look and carry the same brand the whole way. the vast majority of the casual fan enjoys seeing the different uniforms. So that leaves the die-hard fans who would be upset about re-branding a franchise. My argument to them is this: if you are truly a die-hard fan, the color jersey or the font of the name should not impact how you support the team.

That is kind of how i feel. i would love the Classic feather C logo or the candy cane stripe design for the Cavs for the last 40 years... but at the same time, I'm not going to stop watching or going to games.

Please do NOT call me a homer... it is called playing the Devil's Advocate.

Well your first 100 posts and topics were all about Cleveland, and your avatar and sig are / were all Cleveland, and it seems like every third word you posted was "Cleveland", so yeah - you're going to get called out about being Cleveland-centric. I don't have an issue with you, just sayin' that you kinda brought the "homer" thing on yourself. It just seems to me that the posters here from Cleveland feel an extra need to let everyone know that they're from Cleveland, and Cleveland is great. I've never been there - I'm sure it's a fine place and there's fine people there. I just wonder sometimes if any of them have actually journeyed more than 50 miles outside of there. Just kidding.... sort of. Again - not starting any trouble, just pointing out a potential reason why Cleveland posters may feel like they're treated a little differently. Again, I don't really see it, but if it's there, that's probably why.

what amazes me is the amount of time you wasted figuring this out! who cares what they wear? You don't like it fine, change the channel. Us Cavs fans really don't care how many uniforms they wear, and everyone knows if you put #23 on any jersey it's going to sell...

Do you understand the point of this forum at all? I have to question whether or not you do. "Who cares what they wear?" Seriously? For real?

"Us Cavs fans" apparently don't get taught English in Cleveland-area schools. "We" Cavs fans. We.

Way to disprove the notion of Cleveland fans seeing something about their team and instantly getting defensive.

The only one I have a real problem with is the wine and gold throwback.

Are all y'all complaining about the Raptors having 4 jerseys this year? Or the Blazers having (at least) 4?

Seriously, most teams have an alternate and a good number add a throwback a year.

This thread was started about the Cavs. If it was started about any of those other teams, then we'd be commenting on them. Personally, I don't see enough of those other teams to know what their issues may be, but it's irrelevant to this thread anyway. The whole "it's OK because someone else also did it" thing never works. If it did, nobody would ever get speeding tickets.

actually, i believe a lot of my posts were defending franchises like the Yankees, the Celtics, and the Lakers. As for being a "homer," a homer is something who picks his team to win, regardless of the facts, the odds, or the circumstances. A home is someone who will defend his teams, even when they are wrong. I am not doing this. In this thread, the only defense i put for the Cavs is that it ISsmart marketing. However, i have always been quick to say i wish the Cavs would keep just the original feather C logo. I have said numerous times that i am a fan those teams and franchises that keep 1 uniform, 1 set of colors.

As for my last point on this post... i hope my eyes deceive me, but are people really complaining about the word "throwback?"

[BBTV]

I'm not sure you get it - it's not about whether or not you or any of us like or dislike any of their uniform choices, it's about whether or not you feel that it dilutes their identity. Loving or hating one or all of them doesn't really matter... at least not here.

I'm not sure you get it, either. You and everyone else seem to be judging the Cavaliers' brand on the same criteria that you judge the brands of the Lakers, Celtics, Bulls, etc. Maybe if the Cavaliers had the the things that support the kind of brand that those teams have: the history, the fan following, the big media, the championship pedigree, the legendary alumni, you could make that case. The fact is, they don't, and I don't think they ever will, no matter how many championships they win or don't win, and that's always been the nature of this particular franchise. For better or worse, the Cavaliers' 'brand' has always been its lack thereof; it's 'the flavor of the week sells the most swag' mentality. For the most part, it's worked for them to the extent that they still exist through all the terrible years in a town where they've always played third fiddle to the Browns and the Indians.

Is it the way I'd draw up a marketing plan from the beginning? Probably not, but is the philosophy making the most of the asset they have available to them at the current time? Absolutely. Soon enough the cycle will begin again.

Whether or not that's their identity is simply opinion. I stated in the other thread that I see your point on that, but that if that's what they're going for, they're doing that wrong. As for having the same cache of the Lakers, Celtics, Bulls, etc., of course they don't. It's going to be tough for a team from a smaller midwest market to have that. I'd argue that Portland is from an equally "obscure" (for lack of a better term - I wouldn't call Cleveland obscure in any other context) but they have a very strong brand.

Anyway, my point is that while they may not be on the same street as the Lakers, Bulls, and Celtics, they could have used the LeBron era as an opportunity to at least move in to the same zip code. Whether their plan was intentionally to change it up all the time or not, I think they failed.

it's not about whether or not you or any of us like or dislike any of their uniform choices, it's about whether or not you feel that it dilutes their identity. Loving or hating one or all of them doesn't really matter... at least not here.

When did we come up with a set of hard and fast rules on what "matters" around here in general and in this thread in particular? Is there a thread I can reference to find the official position on the use of alternate jerseys? Did I miss the ground rules on what constitutes an acceptable reply in this thread?

I get both sides of the argument and I fully understand your position on the issue. That being said, I think you need to understand that not every reply in this thread is going address your argument point by point. That's just how it is. Deal with it or lose your mind arguing about it.

I'm beginning to think you're letting Saintsfan get to you and it's starting to carry over into the rest of your work around here.

Maybe, but I think this (and the other threads) are really interesting topics, and I just hate when these things go off course. The topic starter was all about whether or not their alts can really be considered alts anymore, so I guess we all kind of took it a bit off topic. You may be right - you know who may have me a little on edge lately!

[Glover]

The only thing I hate about the Cavs is that they have switched colors a million times. I don't have a problem if they want to change the uniforms up every so often, but pretty much every time they have changed the uniform, they also changed the colors. Just stick with Wine and Gold, or Blue and Orange, or Black, Orange, and Light Blue, or Wine, Navy, and Gold. A little consistency with the colors is all I ask for.

[infrared41]

Maybe, but I think this (and the other threads) are really interesting topics, and I just hate when these things go off course. The topic starter was all about whether or not their alts can really be considered alts anymore, so I guess we all kind of took it a bit off topic. You may be right - you know who may have me a little on edge lately!

That I agree with. As I said earlier, the primary road uniform seemed more like an alt when I saw it tonight. That tells me that it may be time for The Cavs to reel it in a bit on the throwback and the faux-throwback.

[CubsFanBudMan]

It was really refreshing to see the Cavaliers' regular roads take the floor last night. I credit this list. I hope the Cavs front office saw it, were shocked and demanded the "right" roads be brought back. Honestly, thanks for confirming what we thought already -- that the parade of alts have marginalized the true Cavs road jersey. Even I didn't think it was really this bad, just our perception because of national TV games, etc. But not even a third of the road games?

I've stated my Cavs branding opinion on the other threads, so I'll leave that there. But to see that this Cavs jersey had been worn in only 7 of 25 possible games (now 8/26) is a shame to me, as I think it is the best jersey of the redesign (I was never a fan of the blue number on the home white) and the one that had the best chance of being recognized as THE LeBron James era jersey and colors when they ushered it in (seeing as though ESPN mostly cares when he plays in places other than Cleveland). I think now I associate the blue alt if I had to pick, which isn't terrible I guess, but not as drastic as when they first did the overhaul.