2010 NBA Playoffs thread

[The_Admiral]

Deng is only considered "awful" because he's miscast as a highly-paid starter when he'd really be a very good sxith man on a lot of teams and because he's injured all the time and doesn't like to play through injuries like NBA starters are expected to. Ah, never mind, Deng is awful.

[ESTONES6]

Chicago is not an option. Let's be honest. A good point guard, but no game outside of 15 foot, a center with attitude problems who makes a living off of offensive rebounds only. Gibson and Deng are solid, but not playing along side LeBron.

Because you clearly know what youre talking about here. Really, thats what you think of Rose? No game outside of 15 feet? How about his game inside of 15 feet? He does things around the rim that make me jump off my couch. Best scoring point guard in the NBA?I would maybe say so. But your analysis is much better. And come on? Noah tore apart Shaq and Varejao, while jawing at an entire city, and last time I checked, offensive rebounding is an incredible asset to a team. So yeah, I have no probelm with him "making a living off of it." But Deng does suck

EDIT: Also, Noah doesnt have attitude problems. He is passionate and expresses himself. its not like he refuses to go to practices or fights with teammates. he has a ridiculous work ethic

My analysis :censored:s on yours. My argument was Rose has no game outside of 15 foot... which I am correct in saying. His game inside of 15 is great, but playing along side LeBron, you need guys who can space the floor... Rose can't... because he can't hit anything outside of 15 foot with any sort of reasonable accuracy.

As for Noah, yes, offensive rebounding is an asset, but he doesn't have that solid of an offensive game. He doesn't have post moves like KG, or even Shaq for that matter (who gets away with it because of his size). Naoh is more of a Varejao player. Makes his living off of put backs and hits the occasional 17 footer. Gibson is someone who can stretch the floor, but will get abused by PFs like Jefferson, STAT, Bosh, Boozer, etc... anyone who is in there banging with solid most moves.

They don't have anyone coming off the bench. Warrick signed a 1 year deal. Hinrich is undersized. Deng will not be effective playing with LeBron. They have limited to no trade assets outside of Gibson. Sure this draft is loaded, but a mid-first round rookie pick isn't exactly the deal breaker to bring LeBron over.

Its Clippers, Nets, Cavs, Knicks. One other team i was thinking about was Houston. With Brooks, Martin, LeBron, Scola, and potentially Yao back... it could be attractive.

I'm sorry but thats absolutely wrong. Rose lives off of spacing, and then attacks it. And Noah is known for running the floor and creating space. Gibson is the opposite, he camps down low. You have everyone mixed up. Hinrich isnt undersized, hes the same height as Rose. Warrick is awful. Deng is awful. I dont think Lebron is banking on the draft to convince him. Id say ROY and all-star Derrick Rose is enough. Maybe I just dont 'get' Cleveland's analysis

Right. Rose needs space to work, because he drives and penetrates... same as LeBron. LeBron's game is predicated on penetration and dishing to teammates for jump shots. Rose is not the type of player that can space the floor with his jumper. Just watch a game, and you will see that.

Noah, also, can not hit an outside jumper with a reasonable level of accuracy. Yes, Noah runs the floor, but in a half court set, he doesn't space the floor with his jumper. He is more of a pick and roll player, which LeBron excels at, but the pick and pop aspect is not their with Noah.

Hinrich was playing the 2... he is undersized at 6'3". He could be a point guard coming in off the bench, but I don't see LeBron dying to play with KIRK HINRICH!

Deng... Deng is Deng.

Taj Gibson CAN hit a 17 foot jumper with accuracy. That is why he can stretch the floor. He would be someone that could benefit from pick and pop play with LeBron. Or, since LeBron is more of a point-forward, when LeBron is running the offense, Taj can stretch the floor so LeBron can penetrate and dish (just like Rose).

Rose and LeBron are 2 players that need the ball in their hands. It has nothing to do with being "Cleveland" (again, not sure why people bag on Cleveland with something completely unrelated). All you have to do is watch the games, look at the players. Maybe you guys have not see LeBron play that much, but I have.

[54Chevy]

Disappointed Cavs fan here.

First off, let's give credit where it's due. The Celtics out hustled, outplayed, and wanted it way more than the Cavs. And, OUT COACHED in every facet. I'm not usually one to blame coaches, but Doc Rivers was so far superior in this series, Mike Brown should be ashamed of himself.

Now, on to the LeBron saga. I don't think he'll play here his entire career. However, I'd like to think (hope) he'd sign for 3 more years to try and get something done, then giving himself the option to leave again while still in his prime.

If he does leave, I just can't see him going to the Nets or Knicks. Someone made a good argument previously about the Nets young talent. But, the thing is, they are young. LBJ wants rings. Best options for that, Chicago or MIami (if D-Wade stays too). So who knows? LeBron's ego makes me think it would be odd for him to go to the Bulls, because he wants to build/make a winner. Chicago already has numerous championships, and it will forever be Jordan's team. Their history is already great.

It's all speculation until July, and if LBJ bolts, at least I can say I got to enjoy watching him for 7 years here.

[Sport]

reposted because estone's shi*ty analysis derailed my logo joke.

I got a question, why is Jordan's shot over Ehlo such a "hearbreaking" moment for Cleveland sports fans? It was in the GD first round and the Cavs were only the 3 seed. I feel like they just put it on that list because the Cavaliers' history is so ugly and they needed something from Cleveland's basketball team to add to the list of Cleveland sports painful defeats. I'd argue that the last two postseason losses have been more detrimental to Cleveland fans than that ever was.

My " :censored:y" analysis was completely on point for anyone who watches the game. Maybe your logo joke just wasn't funny. =\ sorry, just a thought.

Relax. I called your analysis shi*ty because you were claiming that it was taking shi*s on other people's analyses, not because it was of poor quality in and of itself. And my cavs going bowling logo joke was funny.

[The_Admiral]

Boston already has numerous championships, and it will forever be Cousy's/Russell's/Bird's team. Their history is already great. Los Angeles already has numerous championships, and it will forever be Wilt's/Kareem's/Magic's/Shaq's/Kobe's team. Their history is already great. New York already has numerous championships, and it will forever be Clyde's team. Their history is already great. Gosh! It's a small miracle that all future Hall of Famers don't end up writing their legends in Memphis and Sacramento.

[crashcarson15]

And for whoever has the sig showing pictures of The Drive, The Shot, The Fumble, The Hit... add The Elbow. (I say that in jest, please don't spam me with hate)

That would have been me.

Onto the good riddance comment. Was it fueled? Yes. But if that's how this team's gonna act in the last 2 playoffs down the stretch (not to mention they were definitely the best team in Cleveland since the 1995 Indians, if not earlier) it's just extremely frustrating.

If LeBron stays, that'd be great but it's only worth it if he (and his team) go out there and fight til the last minute in the playoffs. At least it'd get rid of the bandwagon fans... Up until this week I've thought LeBron's staying in Cleveland but now I've started to think he's going somewhere else.

[crashcarson15]

If he does leave, I just can't see him going to the Nets or Knicks. Someone made a good argument previously about the Nets young talent. But, the thing is, they are young. LBJ wants rings. Best options for that, Chicago or MIami (if D-Wade stays too). So who knows? LeBron's ego makes me think it would be odd for him to go to the Bulls, because he wants to build/make a winner. Chicago already has numerous championships, and it will forever be Jordan's team. Their history is already great.

He does? That's news to me after last night's fantastic finish.

[Wasatch]

4.) He is not playing for Chicago. He doesn't even like sharing the number 23, no way he is going to be in MJ's shadow IN Chicago.

There?s many different ways you could look at the LeBron going to Chicago situation and your take is one of them. Lately I?ve wondered if him dropping #23 after this season had something to do with him going to a different city, with a fresh start! There?s no question the Cavs will someday retire LeBron?s #23, so just like Kobe, why not try and get a different number retired too?

Is anyone else heavily rooting for the Suns-Magic matchup? Two teams that have never won a title playing each other for the NBA title. That would be refreshing.

Very true, that would be nice in its own right but for my personally, I'm rooting for a Lakers/Celtics rematch!

Boston already has numerous championships, and it will forever be Cousy's/Russell's/Bird's team. Their history is already great. Los Angeles already has numerous championships, and it will forever be Wilt's/Kareem's/Magic's/Shaq's/Kobe's team. Their history is already great. New York already has numerous championships, and it will forever be Clyde's team. Their history is already great. Gosh! It's a small miracle that all future Hall of Famers don't end up writing their legends in Memphis and Sacramento.

The Knicks have a rich history yes, but nowhere near the Lakers and the Celtics. LeBron could go to NYC and create his own legacy and within a matter of 5 years make the Knicks forever his!

[54Chevy]

If he does leave, I just can't see him going to the Nets or Knicks. Someone made a good argument previously about the Nets young talent. But, the thing is, they are young. LBJ wants rings. Best options for that, Chicago or MIami (if D-Wade stays too). So who knows? LeBron's ego makes me think it would be odd for him to go to the Bulls, because he wants to build/make a winner. Chicago already has numerous championships, and it will forever be Jordan's team. Their history is already great.

He does? That's news to me after last night's fantastic finish.

everyone loves a pessimist.

[TheOldRoman]

Boston already has numerous championships, and it will forever be Cousy's/Russell's/Bird's team. Their history is already great. Los Angeles already has numerous championships, and it will forever be Wilt's/Kareem's/Magic's/Shaq's/Kobe's team. Their history is already great. New York already has numerous championships, and it will forever be Clyde's team. Their history is already great. Gosh! It's a small miracle that all future Hall of Famers don't end up writing their legends in Memphis and Sacramento.

In all fairness, Clyde Frasier isn't in the discussion about the greatest player of all time. The Lakers and Celtics have each had several championship eras consisting of many different star players. Chicago has 6 championships and it would have gotten zero without Jordan, who was also the greatest basketball player ever. The fact that the Bulls were awful to mediocre before him, ruled the world, and then were awful to mediocre in the 12 years since he left only increases his legend. He is an icon who will forever be identified with the city, and I don't think you could say that about any of the above names except maybe Magic Johnson. Jordan is the best player ever, and he IS the Bulls franchise. LeBron might be the best player ever someday, so he might not want to go to Chicago to try to live up to Jordan's accomplishments. I am not 100% sold on that idea, but I see the point. No single player in any sport has had Jordan's level of impact on a franchise except maybe Babe Ruth.

However, people have the idea that Chicago obsesses with past sports champions. Bears fans might cling to the greatest team ever banner a little too tightly, but that is because the team has been awful for most of the years since then. Some White Sox fans still dream about Aaron Rowand and the "blue collar" crew which won a World Series, but coincidentally, the Sox had a great team which fell apart in 2006 and have only made the playoffs once since then. Many yahoos still talk about the 69 Cubs as one of the best teams ever turned Greek tragedy, and of course they didn't even win anything. We know what the Cubs have done since then.

LeBron would have a lot of pressure and be in the sizeable shadow of Jordan if he came to Chicago, and it would only increase every season until he won a title. However, it would go away with his first title. There will never be another MJ, but Chicago would embrace LeBron and the new championship era provided there was one. I don't think you would have fans saying LeBron sucks because he only brough us 5 championships while MJ brought us 6. OK, there would inevitably be some of those morons, but most people wouldn't.

1.) Bulls : can't share 23, he isn't sharing a city.

If he's not going to Chicago, it's because Jerry Reinsdorf is too cheap to pay him. Don't give me this sportswriter drivel about uniform numbers or "sharing a city."

I don't think so. I am not making a bet on where he ends up, but I am hopeful about the Bulls. Fortunately, all the teams except Cleveland will be offering him the same exact contract. Reinsdorf will pay out, as he has whenever he had a legitimate shot at a title. Now, the Bulls have the most talent out of any of the potential suitors, but I don't think getting James to sign here is just a matter of money. They might very well blow it and end up with nobody this offseason, but money won't be the issue.

[The_Admiral]

Guess it depends how much of the Coyotes the Glendale taxpayers buy for him.

I'm not buying into some idea that LeBron James is somehow afraid of playing in Chicago because he can't cope with having to follow Michael Jordan. Michael's been gone for 12 years. If he doesn't have the mental fortitude to deal with being in all ways the next Jordan, then what exactly are we coveting so much, anyway?

[Wasatch]

Guess it depends how much of the Coyotes the Glendale taxpayers buy for him.

I'm not buying into some idea that LeBron James is somehow afraid of playing in Chicago because he can't cope with having to follow Michael Jordan. Michael's been gone for 12 years. If he doesn't have the mental fortitude to deal with being in all ways the next Jordan, then what exactly are we coveting so much, anyway?

I agree. Kobe doesn?t seem to be overshadowed by Magic and Kareem!

[crashcarson15]

If he does leave, I just can't see him going to the Nets or Knicks. Someone made a good argument previously about the Nets young talent. But, the thing is, they are young. LBJ wants rings. Best options for that, Chicago or MIami (if D-Wade stays too). So who knows? LeBron's ego makes me think it would be odd for him to go to the Bulls, because he wants to build/make a winner. Chicago already has numerous championships, and it will forever be Jordan's team. Their history is already great.

He does? That's news to me after last night's fantastic finish.

everyone loves a pessimist.

I'm just saying that this may have been his best shot at a title he'll ever have and he (and his team) just threw it away.

[Jigga]

If he does leave, I just can't see him going to the Nets or Knicks. Someone made a good argument previously about the Nets young talent. But, the thing is, they are young. LBJ wants rings. Best options for that, Chicago or MIami (if D-Wade stays too). So who knows? LeBron's ego makes me think it would be odd for him to go to the Bulls, because he wants to build/make a winner. Chicago already has numerous championships, and it will forever be Jordan's team. Their history is already great.

He does? That's news to me after last night's fantastic finish.

everyone loves a pessimist.

I'm just saying that this may have been his best shot at a title he'll ever have and he (and his team) just threw it away.

Call me crazy, but I thought LeBron's best shot at a title was in 2006-2007.

[Wasatch]

If he does leave, I just can't see him going to the Nets or Knicks. Someone made a good argument previously about the Nets young talent. But, the thing is, they are young. LBJ wants rings. Best options for that, Chicago or MIami (if D-Wade stays too). So who knows? LeBron's ego makes me think it would be odd for him to go to the Bulls, because he wants to build/make a winner. Chicago already has numerous championships, and it will forever be Jordan's team. Their history is already great.

He does? That's news to me after last night's fantastic finish.

everyone loves a pessimist.

I'm just saying that this may have been his best shot at a title he'll ever have and he (and his team) just threw it away.

Call me crazy, but I thought LeBron's best shot at a title was in 2006-2007.

I think we both know that he?s saying that this years Cavs had the most talent out of all of them. It?s crazy to think they couldn?t get passed the 2nd round. This thought has to be crossing LeBron?s mind at some point!

[54Chevy]

If he does leave, I just can't see him going to the Nets or Knicks. Someone made a good argument previously about the Nets young talent. But, the thing is, they are young. LBJ wants rings. Best options for that, Chicago or MIami (if D-Wade stays too). So who knows? LeBron's ego makes me think it would be odd for him to go to the Bulls, because he wants to build/make a winner. Chicago already has numerous championships, and it will forever be Jordan's team. Their history is already great.

He does? That's news to me after last night's fantastic finish.

everyone loves a pessimist.

I'm just saying that this may have been his best shot at a title he'll ever have and he (and his team) just threw it away.

i'm glad you added "team" there. yes, when you're on sportscenter 24/7, a lot falls on your shoulders. but, there are 12 guys on the roster, anyone could have stepped up. boston did a hell of a job keeping lbj on the perimeter, and the resulting open man was not knocking down shots, regardless of who it was.

IS MIKE BROWN FIRED YET?

[ESTONES6]

Honestly... with the line up the Cavs had this season, they should have been able to play so many different line ups, that the opposition wouldn't be able to keep up. They had any number of line-ups with LeBron playing the 1, 2, 3, or 4. Jamison playing the 3 or 4. Delonte playing the 1 or 2. Parker playing the 2 or 3. Moon playing the 2 or 3. Andy playing the 4 or 5. Hickson playing 4 or 5. It should have been a team that could impose its will on any team. Big, small, half court, run and gun, fast break... any type of style.

In the end, they took their hat off of what they hung it on all season: defense. Hell, last night was the first time I seen KG shoot over his left shoulder all series. The 5 games before it was the same 2 moves... Back to the basket, fake left, shoot over the right shoulder. Or, Back to the basket, shoot fade away over the right shoulder. I seen it, and I was sitting on my couch.

But i think the glaring weakness that became apparent this series was the coaching staff. The Cavs should have been able to exploit miss matches throughout the course of games. Their offense was... whoa scary. They ran very little off the ball screens. It was like watching a junior high team. OK high screen and roll. OK high screen and pop. Or they would swing the ball around the top of the key in 3 passes with Shaq or Varejao at the top of the key where they pose no threat. Sure its a swing, but thats ALL it was EVERY time. OK pass, turn, pass, turn, pass. It was never pass, run a off the ball screen, fake the swing and bring it back around, then run a pick and roll.

Hell they should have taken a page out of the Pistons play book... constantly running guys off screen to get 15 foot jumpers like Rip Hamilton. I mean come on, the Celtics even did it with Ray Allen. Now, I am not saying the Cavs "shooters" are in the same conversation as Rip or Ray, but at least have the wrinkle in the offense.

The offense was truly terrible. And when they would move the ball around to start games... come second half, it because the LeBron 1 on 5 offense, getting away from what gave them leads in the first place.

The rotations were terrible as well. Brown refused to put in effective line-ups. It may not have been imposing their will, but it was a line up that kept you in games, or gave you leads. It was sad to watch. The whole series, when Mo, West, or LeBron penetrated the Boston defense... good things happened... but they refused to pound the ball and dish, ESPECIALLY LeBron, who all but checked out in games 4, 5, 6.

They were cocky. They had their eyes on Orlando in the ECF. They showed up for 1 game against the Bulls and 1 game against the Celtics... other than that, they were ALL on cruise control. It was embarrassing. They laid down.

Don't get me wrong, Boston played a hell of a series. They had 2 or 3 guys step up every night to run with Rondo... the Cavs didn't. Boston deserved to win this series, and to be honest, they should have won it in 5 games. My frustration lies in the lack of effort, the lack of execution, and the ability the coaching staff lacked to match the opposing coaching staff.

Doc Rivers had his guys ready. They had plans A, B, C, and D. Mike Brown seemed to go to plan A... and when that went to work, he sat on the side line making those stupid ass faces.

[NJTank]

If he does leave, I just can't see him going to the Nets or Knicks. Someone made a good argument previously about the Nets young talent. But, the thing is, they are young. LBJ wants rings. Best options for that, Chicago or MIami (if D-Wade stays too). So who knows? LeBron's ego makes me think it would be odd for him to go to the Bulls, because he wants to build/make a winner. Chicago already has numerous championships, and it will forever be Jordan's team. Their history is already great.

He does? That's news to me after last night's fantastic finish.

everyone loves a pessimist.

I'm just saying that this may have been his best shot at a title he'll ever have and he (and his team) just threw it away.

i'm glad you added "team" there. yes, when you're on sportscenter 24/7, a lot falls on your shoulders. but, there are 12 guys on the roster, anyone could have stepped up. boston did a hell of a job keeping lbj on the perimeter, and the resulting open man was not knocking down shots, regardless of who it was.

IS MIKE BROWN FIRED YET?

No but Mike Woodson was

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5188712

[dfwabel]

I waited 12 hours before posting just to see where people were going to align their views. I do not care if he opts out or not, but in review of the series:

1-When it gets down to "da getdown", LeBron has to take the shot. No Jamison, no Anderson, no Z, no Mo Williams. It is his shot(s) to take and must take the game over. Try to answer this: Who is the best player that has taken the court with him in the last four seasons?

2-The Celtics made the Cavs "tap out". They did it to Kobe in '08 and they did it again here. While old, they had a PG emerging as a star and the Big 3 still can take shots and play defense when needed and take one guy away from you.

3-Coaching. I am not sure if there even are five coaches which LeBron will allow them to "coach" him and two of them are in college (Calipari and Coack K). The separate huddles with Doc and Brown were shockingly different, especially when you have out of gas Shaq doing nothing.

4-The Cavs, under both Gund and Gilbert, seemed to allow LeBron to have the locker room/management his way since he was 19 in an effort to have believe that is was interested in being a Cav "lifer". His post-game comments were based on getting his management team rather than assisting the Cavs to get better. He as always been his own authority, so he is as passionless as A-Rod and Texieria.

[TFoA]

Mike Brown's been fired.

If the Hawks replace Woodson with Brown, I will have a stroke. A STROKE.