2010 NHL Offseason chatter

[JQK]

Kovalchuk isn't top level talent.

You're insane.

[oddball]

Another chapter in "Only in the NHL".

League chasing top level talant to the KHL.

Kovalchuk isn't top level talent.

He is top level talent. He's just all about himself. His contract issues with Atlanta and now this crap in this off-season where he has to have his money. Well if he wants his money, then go get it in Russia and always be a top level talent who can't win anything because he thinks about nothing more than himself.

[The_Admiral]

Being all about yourself precludes being top-level talent in hockey.

[NJTank]

Gary Betman has done serious damage to the NHL, the longer he is comish the worse it will get. Another labor stoppage could make the NHL go the way of Arena Football.

[dfwabel]

Gary Betman has done serious damage to the NHL, the longer he is comish the worse it will get. Another labor stoppage could make the NHL go the way of Arena Football.

Sadly, Tank, you think that just one person makes the decisions in the NHL. The board of Governors are the ones who tell Bettman what to do and how to look at issues. That board is is based with long time NHL people and families who were in charge before Bettman was hired by the same people.

Neither you nor I are in charge of a team, so our thought on the job we think he does means little.

[The_Admiral]

Also, we've never been convicted of anything, so we really have no qualifications for the NHL.

[oddball]

Being all about yourself precludes being top-level talent in hockey.

That's where you're wrong. Talent and selfishness are two different subjects. You can be talented without being selfish. You can be selfish without having talent. Wayne Gretzky, talented and not selfish. Teemu Selanne and Scott Niedermayer, talented and selfish. Brett Favre, completely selfish and yet talented also. Hack down the street who can't play guitar and has a horrible band and won't offer up one cookie to anyone that his girlfriend made for everyone at the party? Talentless and selfish!

[jkrdevil]

A new contract was submitted to the NHL and is being reviewed. Rumor is that it is around 15 years 100 million (that would be a 6.66 cap hit). The structure is unknown and that looks to be what could make a difference. The contract would take Kovalchuk to the same age as Hossa's current deal with the Blackhawks.

[HedleyLamarr]

A new contract was submitted to the NHL and is being reviewed. Rumor is that it is around 15 years 100 million (that would be a 6.66 cap hit). The structure is unknown and that looks to be what could make a difference. The contract would take Kovalchuk to the same age as Hossa's current deal with the Blackhawks.

Brilliant!

[charger77]

Kariya to miss season with PCS

[Still MIGHTY]

Kariya to miss season with PCS

I don't like to celebrate injury or wish it on anyone, but thank God.

This at least forces Murray's hand to NOT sign him, thankfully... Now if he could work on this Bobby Ryan nonsense

[The_Admiral]

Being all about yourself precludes being top-level talent in hockey.

That's where you're wrong. Talent and selfishness are two different subjects. You can be talented without being selfish. You can be selfish without having talent. Wayne Gretzky, talented and not selfish. Teemu Selanne and Scott Niedermayer, talented and selfish.

Reading is a skill: I didn't say you can't be selfish and talented. I said that the nature of the sport is such that to be among the league's elite, you all but have to be a dedicated two-way player who puts his team's achievements ahead of his own, which Kovalchuk is emphatically not. Pavel Datsyuk is elite. Jonathan Toews is elite. Kovalchuk is a nice piece of the puzzle, but not among the league's very best.

Sorry, you can't be awful at half of what you're supposed to do and be considered an elite player in my book.

This was said about Steve Nash in the thread about point guards, but I find it equally applicable here.

[oddball]

Being all about yourself precludes being top-level talent in hockey.

That's where you're wrong. Talent and selfishness are two different subjects. You can be talented without being selfish. You can be selfish without having talent. Wayne Gretzky, talented and not selfish. Teemu Selanne and Scott Niedermayer, talented and selfish.

Reading is a skill: I didn't say you can't be selfish and talented. I said that the nature of the sport is such that to be among the league's elite, you all but have to be a dedicated two-way player who puts his team's achievements ahead of his own, which Kovalchuk is emphatically not. Pavel Datsyuk is elite. Jonathan Toews is elite. Kovalchuk is a nice piece of the puzzle, but not among the league's very best.

Sorry, you can't be awful at half of what you're supposed to do and be considered an elite player in my book.

This was said about Steve Nash in the thread about point guards, but I find it equally applicable here.

Talent is something you can't teach. You proved my point by about talent by using the example of reading being a skill. Playing two-way hockey is a skill because it can be learned and has to be learned. A person doesn't naturally play two-way games as a matter of fact, all kids growing up want to score and play offense and have to be taught how to play defense. I get the feeling that we aren't going to see eye to eye on this and that's fine. I do agree that he is a piece to the puzzle, but so are the players that you named, just parts to a puzzle. I don't care how good a player is, he's just a part to the puzzle. Hell, Patrick Roy was just a part to the Avalanche's titles, but without him they don't even come close to winning. But then again, the fourth line center is just as valuable to a team as the top level talented player because everyone has a role to play.

[BrySmalls]

Chelios retires, becomes an Advisor to Hockey Operations for Detroit.

[The_Admiral]

all kids growing up want to score and play offense and have to be taught how to play defense.

That's not true! My only skill in street/floor hockey is charging full-speed into puckhandlers. Running, swimming, and unsupervised body-checking were my only saving graces in an otherwise disgraceful physical education career. I could've been a star in the LNAH.

But seriously, my point is that the NHL's elite, franchise-cornerstone players by definition play well both ways. A defender who ranges from indifferent to incompetent cannot be among the league's best players.

[Corvus]

Kovalchuk isn't top level talent.

You're insane.

Seriously. Kovalchuk is an elite offensive player.

[rams80]

Kovalchuk isn't top level talent.

You're insane.

Seriously. Kovalchuk is an elite offensive player.

And a slipshod defender. Who has only been in the playoffs twice, both first round exits. Surely a top level "elite" player would have been able to lead a team to more than two playoff spots and won more than 1 bleeping playoff game.

[Brendan]

Kovalchuk isn't top level talent.

You're insane.

Seriously. Kovalchuk is an elite offensive player.

And a slipshod defender. Who has only been in the playoffs twice, both first round exits. Surely a top level "elite" player would have been able to lead a team to more than two playoff spots and won more than 1 bleeping playoff game.

2 time 50 goal scorer on a horrible team is elite to me.

[oddball]

Kovalchuk isn't top level talent.

You're insane.

Seriously. Kovalchuk is an elite offensive player.

And a slipshod defender. Who has only been in the playoffs twice, both first round exits. Surely a top level "elite" player would have been able to lead a team to more than two playoff spots and won more than 1 bleeping playoff game.

2 time 50 goal scorer on a horrible team is elite to me.

So now you're criticism of Kovalchuk has gone off the deep-end, and you can't defend what you're saying, so now you're blaming him alone for the lack of production of the other 19 players on the team during the playoffs? Flimsy criticism at best. So you are one who says that it's all Jim Kelly's and Fran Tarkenton's fault that the team got to the Super Bowl 4 times and didn't win, failing to realize it takes a TEAM to win, not one player. This isn't golf here, nor is it tennis. It's a team game, and when you criticize a player based on a team's performance, you need to step back and ask yourself seriously what exactly you are criticizing, the team or the player. If you're going to say his plus/minus is a minus whatever, then you have something to stand on... sort of. If you've got proof that in every game on every shift, he's never been in the defensive zone, then you have proof that he plays no defense. When you say a player is not elite because his TEAM has not advanced past the first round, then I ask the question, "Are the other 17 skaters and two goalies sitting on the bench watching?" If that's the case, then you have a completely valid argument. Based on your completely flimsy argument that you have going now, George Parros is an elite player because he's "lead" his team to a Stanley Cup and Kovalchuk hasn't. You my friend, need to go back to school and learn how to bring sound facts to the table when you argue and make your points. You wouldn't even make a good politician because your changing of subject mid-argument isn't even credible.

[rams80]

In my mind an "elite" hockey player would be capable of carrying his team to the postseason a little more often than Kovalchuk has. When more than half of the league makes the field, and you have some really crummy teams among the field annually, he should have been able to guide the Thrashers to at least a 7 or an 8 seed with reasonable consistency.