USMNT

[JQK]

Every German is still a Nazi.

It's been proven by science.

[MiK]

The sheer amount of willful ignorance in this thread is alternately hilarious and painful to read.

Every German is still a Nazi.

It's been proven by science.

Fact(s).

I don't understand why FIFA feels the need to police how the different federations represent their championships, its not like they don't have anything else to attend to....cough..integrity of the game..cough

[maz]

2. They are sharp, although I must admit that when they wore the all black strip I was a little uneasy seeing a bunch of Germans in black uniforms.

I'm so sick of seeing this. Really? The country of Germany, whose flag is one-third black, shouldn't ever wear black clothing? Really?

Besides, the German Nazi SAs were known as Brown Shirts. Italy's Fascists were the black shirts. If Italy starts wearing black, then sure, there's something to complain about. Germany though? As long as they're not brown, they're fine.

What about the SS?

They did wear black (though not all, the combat SS wore a brown/green camo pattern). The thing is, however, that they weren't known for the colour of their uniforms. They wore black, but the black uniform wasn't as synonymous with the SS as the brown shirts were with the SA. Or the black shirts with Italy's Fascist militia.

So really the only colour Germany needs to stay away from is brown.

True. I sortof already knew that. WWII and Nazis and all that stuff has always been quite an interest of mine.

For the record, im also sick of the constant Germany = Nazis thought process of people, especially as someone who is part german.

I'll admit, though, I was one of the people who the first thing I thought when I saw all-black german sets was "Hmm, they kindof look like Nazis". But that probably stems from my interest in that era of history.

[Titanole]

2. They are sharp, although I must admit that when they wore the all black strip I was a little uneasy seeing a bunch of Germans in black uniforms.

I'm so sick of seeing this. Really? The country of Germany, whose flag is one-third black, shouldn't ever wear black clothing? Really?

3. Anyone with common sense and pays any attention to the World Cup would also know that the USMNT hasn't won three tournaments, let alone one.

Finally, this entire argument comes down to just having a little common sense. Why does the US soccer logo have stars in it? Maybe because the US flag has stars and stars have always been associated with American national imagery? Case closed.

Everyone, please read what Ice_Cap posted. Read it again. Now read it once more. Realize that he's right, and let this whole "durrr... huh-hurrr.... they haven't won three World Cups... durrr..." thing go. Please. The team is the friggin' Stars and Stripes fercripessake. Jeebus.

Man, I don't know what species of bug crawled up your butt, but I'll relax and let it crawl out if I were you.

The black German kit thing was a joke, although the SS did have some pretty sharp black kits themselves back in the day. The German soccer team aren't Nazis. There, good enough? Geez, I never would have thought anyone would have taken that seriously. I suppose that without a smilie, sarcasm gets lost on the internet.

And I agree with Ice_Cap on the stars. I was just also pointing out that I can't see how anyone would even think that because the US incorporates stars in their badge that they have won World Cups.

Lighten up, Francis.

[taantumus]

Oh I love the internet! The stars in USMNT somehow lead us to talk about the Nazis. Once again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

[IceCap]

I'm getting all religious here, but in my opinion the partition of Germany after WWII was atonement for the sins committed under Nazism. It's in the past. We can all move on now.

[CreamSoda]

Come on, dont be so naive.

There is no way you can tell me the placement, design and color of the logos is not at least trying to mimick the stars of other world cup winning teams.

There are plenty of others way to portray the stars and stripes of the USA besides gold beveled stars...

[-kj]

Gold-beveled? Um... that looks like blue and white to me.

[Drew22]

Plus anyone who knows what the stars would stand for would know that the US hasn't won 3 World Cups...

[CreamSoda]

Gold-beveled? Um... that looks like blue and white to me.

Sorry, bad grammar.

I meant gold trim and beveled stars.

[CreamSoda]

Plus anyone who knows what the stars would stand for would know that the US hasn't won 3 World Cups...

That is not my point at all...

My point is that if you showed the Italian, Brasilian and American crest to a casual sports fan, they would probably think that the Americans had won something to have those stars.

Of course football fans will know this is not true, but not everybody knows the history of every sporting event ever.

[JQK]

Plus anyone who knows what the stars would stand for would know that the US hasn't won 3 World Cups...

That is not my point at all...

My point is that if you showed the Italian, Brasilian and American crest to a casual sports fan, they would probably think that the Americans had won something to have those stars.

Of course football fans will know this is not true, but not everybody knows the history of every sporting event ever.

Or they just might think "Hey! America! Stars and Stripes!"

Jesus...

[CreamSoda]

Plus anyone who knows what the stars would stand for would know that the US hasn't won 3 World Cups...

That is not my point at all...

My point is that if you showed the Italian, Brasilian and American crest to a casual sports fan, they would probably think that the Americans had won something to have those stars.

Of course football fans will know this is not true, but not everybody knows the history of every sporting event ever.

Or they just might think "Hey! America! Stars and Stripes!"

Jesus...

So you really are that naive?

Jesus...

[IceCap]

No, he's not that naive, he's got common sense.

You're just being overly argumentative. There are plenty of other national team crests that use stars because they're part of the nation's national symbolism. A team representing a country with a star or stars on its flag using a star or stars in its logo isn't really this grand conspiracy to try and seem more successful then they actually are. They're just employing their nation's patriotic imagery. The UK uses lions and union jacks, Canada uses the maple leaf, the US uses the stars and stripes.

This isn't that hard of a concept to grasp.

[CreamSoda]

No, he's not that naive, he's got common sense.

You're just being overly argumentative. There are plenty of other national team crests that use stars because they're part of the nation's national symbolism. A team representing a country with a star or stars on its flag using a star or stars in its logo isn't really this grand conspiracy to try and seem more successful then they actually are. They're just employing their nation's patriotic imagery. The UK uses lions and union jacks, Canada uses the maple leaf, the US uses the stars and stripes.

This isn't that hard of a concept to grasp.

What part of my post is that hard to understand. I know its part of our national identity but my point is that they clearly designed it to mimick that of other wc winning teams...

Why you can not understand this is beyond me.

[Shmee]

No, he's not that naive, he's got common sense.

You're just being overly argumentative. There are plenty of other national team crests that use stars because they're part of the nation's national symbolism. A team representing a country with a star or stars on its flag using a star or stars in its logo isn't really this grand conspiracy to try and seem more successful then they actually are. They're just employing their nation's patriotic imagery. The UK uses lions and union jacks, Canada uses the maple leaf, the US uses the stars and stripes.

This isn't that hard of a concept to grasp.

What part of my post is that hard to understand. I know its part of our national identity but my point is that they clearly designed it to mimick that of other wc winning teams...

Why you can not understand this is beyond me.

I understand what you are saying. Your message is clear.

I just think you are wrong. I think the stars are there simply because, well, Americans like stars. Not because we're trying to pass ourselves off as some ultra-successful soccer nation.

[IceCap]

No, he's not that naive, he's got common sense.

You're just being overly argumentative. There are plenty of other national team crests that use stars because they're part of the nation's national symbolism. A team representing a country with a star or stars on its flag using a star or stars in its logo isn't really this grand conspiracy to try and seem more successful then they actually are. They're just employing their nation's patriotic imagery. The UK uses lions and union jacks, Canada uses the maple leaf, the US uses the stars and stripes.

This isn't that hard of a concept to grasp.

What part of my post is that hard to understand. I know its part of our national identity but my point is that they clearly designed it to mimick that of other wc winning teams...

Why you can not understand this is beyond me.

I understand what you're saying. I just find it wrong and lacking in common sense. Is it clearly designed to mimic the crests of other WC winning teams? No. The stars were placed there to mimic one thing, the American flag.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

[-kj]

No. The stars were placed there to mimic one thing, the American flag.

Well, the stars were there to at least sorta-kinda use the stars and stripes.

If only it mimicked the flag; you know, blue field with white stars, red and white stripes.... I mean, really, I support the national team pretty fully, but fercripessake, they could have at least gotten that part right.

Of course, the fact that the colors are messed up doesn't make CreamSoda right.

[aawagner011]

Alright, how about we start using some logic here.

We've only got a few WC winners. Let's start with Brazil. They kind of originated the stars above the crest to denote titles won. They did not start doing this until 1974, when they already had 3 titles. They've been doing this pretty much every since.

Italy who has 4 WC wins has changed the way they denote championships. In 1986, 1990 and 1994, they had stars embedded within the crest (2 different designs. In 2002, Italy did not have any stars above their crest, but rather on the end of the right sleeve.

(see that they're on the sleeve?)

Then in 2006, Italy went with three stars embedded in the lower part of their crest, similar to today's crest except 3. So they've had a lot of variation. You can hardly say they can set a standard when they've gone with multiple variations (embedded in the crest different ways and on the sleeve).

Germany's won it three times. They did not start wearing the stars until 1996 for the Euros. See here they are sans stars in 1994 and then with them in 1996:

Argentina had been without their 2 stars up until 2002. They added them during the 2006 qualifying stage. Here they are in 2002 without stars:

Uruguay is a whole other monster because they feature not only their 2 WC wins, but also 2 Olympic wins, totaling 4 stars, embedded within the crest.

France won in 1998 and therefore jumped on the bandwagon with stars after their win. England might be the latest of them all. Their win in 1966 didn't see the star added until 2003, on the left sleeve of their home shirt. The new away shirt then added it above the crest. Currently, England's star is now rendered in a tonal color, so its pretty much pointless.

(on the sleeve end)

So all of this boils down to one thing. When was the current US crest launched? Well, it was first seen on the 1995 shirts, immediately following the 1994 World Cup. So Brazil's been wearing the stars since 1974 and Italy hasn't known where they want to place theirs (in crest 3 times in two different formats, once on sleeve). Again, Uruguay is another thing to deal with because of their dual WC/Olympic stars. Germany didn't start until 1996, France hadn't won until 1998 to make a valid argument here, Argentina arrived late to the party in 2003-4, and England began in 2003, not to mention they're going invisible with the star now. All of this adds up to say that the stars denoting titles are a relatively new idea, and most of these teams didn't even start until well after the US launched their crest. The fact Brazil made it their own thing since 1974 and Italy has been toying with the concept in various locations does not give them a monopoly on the stars. We are the STARS and stripes. And frankly, we beat most of the teams to the punch in terms of when they unveiled their stars. We came first, so naturally, I think its only right we're grandfathered in.

Sorry this was so long, but I've just been reading the ignorance here for the entire life of this thread and I had to bring some common sense/insight to the situation.

[andrewharrington]

This just in. It's not that uncommon. These are just a few of the participants in this years tournament who prominently feature stars in their crests. There are at least three or four others: