DG_ThenNowForever Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said: and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 As for why Philly traded him, the response I've gotten when asking Philly fans is that Lee got traded to free up room for extensions for position players as well as to get some prospects back they sent away in the Halladay deal. I still don't buy this logic but that's the story I've heard.You're talking to some dumb fans.Lee was only going to make 9M this year, and that's it. He wasn't under contract for next year, so trading him freed up exactly zero dollars for extensions.The management spin on it was that they needed to replenish their farm system after all of the trading they've done in the past couple of years, but that's BS, considering what they got in return. The team generates the 4th or 5th most revenue in the sport, yet still confines itself to a budget. With payroll rising, they felt that they couldn't pay one of the top pitchers in the game 9M for one season, even though it's worth 20. It's ridiculous - you're shots of returning to the WS and winning it are so much higher with Lee and Halladay than without.Bottom line - they are no longer a cheap organization, but they were cheap in this case - and now they're paying for it. They're also short sighted - had they not tendered Joe Blanton right before they got Halladay, they could have had Lee instead of Blanton for roughly the same money. Had they not signed Cy Old (Jamie Moyer) to a bad extension (it's still a bad extension, despite his record) they could have had Lee over him for roughly the same money. The Amaro / Gillick regime has made a lot of very good moves, but the bad ones they've made have been horrible (they paid Adam Eaton 24 M to sit in the minor leagues, and then just sit at home. He made exactly 1M less last year than Lee was due this season.) "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epper Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 I highly doubt the Phillies will go after Lee. It would be an admission that trading him last winter was a huge mistake (which it was), and GM's never do that.Plus from what I'm hearing, they'd have to give up Domonic Brown. And we all know from the Halladay circus that he's the most untouchable prospect in their system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 I highly doubt the Phillies will go after Lee. It would be an admission that trading him last winter was a huge mistake (which it was), and GM's never do that.Plus from what I'm hearing, they'd have to give up Domonic Brown. And we all know from the Halladay circus that he's the most untouchable prospect in their system.Brown will likely be up after the ASG, once the service time thing passes (something about this year counting toward his arbitration eligibility or something.) It's not unfathomable that Ibanez ends up sitting for a while, though he seems to be better lately. Brown needs to get experience now, since it's still unlikely that Werth is coming back, and if they do find a way to sign him, they will do whatever it takes to trade or euthanize Ibanez.The trade was horrible - Seattle would laugh at getting offered their "prospects" back, especially considering the top one got demoted already. I don't hold GM Amaro totally accountable, as I think he was working under orders from above to manage the payroll, but still - he didn't have to trade Lee right away... he could have waited for a better deal. "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lights Out Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 Would they let Crawford walk to sign Lee with how good their staff is already?They might let Crawford walk anyway since they have Desmond Jennings - who is projected to be just as good - waiting in the wings.I'd love to see my Rays get Cliff Lee but I just don't see it happening. It'll probably be the Mets. POTD: 2/4/12 3/4/12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 LOL. If the Rays sign a pitcher for >20M / year, I'll eat my hat. "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lights Out Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 They'd better be thinking about it, considering how our pitching staff's cumulative ERA rose from 2.76 in April to an inexcusable 5.96 in June. I mean, the staff's BABIP also rose from .264 in April to .353 in June, so the staff hasn't caught many breaks as a whole over the past two months, but Cliff Lee would make it so that we wouldn't have to worry about luck. POTD: 2/4/12 3/4/12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
See Red Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 They'd better be thinking about it, considering how our pitching staff's cumulative ERA rose from 2.76 in April to an inexcusable 5.96 in June. I mean, the staff's BABIP also rose from .264 in April to .353 in June, so the staff hasn't caught many breaks as a whole over the past two months, but Cliff Lee would make it so that we wouldn't have to worry about luck.Rays could certainly use a Cliff Lee type. Then again, who couldn't?I'm not all that impressed by the Rays rotation -- of course it's easy to say that given their recent results. It's not as good as it was early, but it's definetely not as bad as it is now... a lot of luck, good and bad, involved both ways. I expect Price and Niemann's ERA's to start trending towards their FIP's (Price's is about 3.76 or so, Niemann's is north of 4.00 -- he's had a ridiculously low BABIP), so they should be going up, but I think Garza and Shields' will both trend downwards so it all should come out about even. I'd say their rotation's about par for the course, but I do like their bullpen.But yeah, BBTV's right, I can't see them spending $20+ mill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cujo Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmac Posted July 3, 2010 Share Posted July 3, 2010 Latest word is that Ramos is available. Sounds like Bill Smith is trying to add that second piece for Seattle. Baker has been thrown around, but the Twins don't want to let him go just yet. https://www.behance.net/bmatukewic8043 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lights Out Posted July 3, 2010 Share Posted July 3, 2010 But yeah, BBTV's right, I can't see them spending $20+ mill.I don't think they'd mind dropping $20 mil on one player, but when you start having to spend big money on all your key players, that's when the Rays start having problems. POTD: 2/4/12 3/4/12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted July 4, 2010 Share Posted July 4, 2010 oops... wrong thread "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waffles Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 The Knicks didn?t get LeBron James, but the Yankees were on the brink of obtaining Cliff Lee late last night for a package that would include top prospect Jesus Montero, the Post has learned.Yankees GM Brian Cashman and Seattle GM Jack Zduriencik have been in constant contact over the last week, but it was only last night that the Seattle GM told Yankee officials he wanted to move quickly, possibly before the All-Star break.The Yanks were not assured of obtaining Lee since other clubs such as the Mets, Twins and Rangers were in talks.But the Yanks were definitely making the strongest move last night, coming from seeming disinterest into the clear front-runner -- and last night it seemed they were all but certain to obtain the 31-year-old lefty.Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/yankees_on_brink_of_landing_cliff_b7oJw63k0cUXVdd02uuU1I?sms_ss=twitter#ixzz0tBvmlASuWonder if this will come together before Lee starts for Seattle against the Yankees tonight.I'm a Yankee fan, and I can't defend this. They don't need Lee. This is obnoxious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lights Out Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 If the Bankees end up getting Lee, I think we can all safely agree that the MLB is a joke and it will never be conducted in a fair manner, at least not while Selig is running the show. POTD: 2/4/12 3/4/12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DG_ThenNowForever Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 If the Bankees end up getting Lee, I think we can all safely agree that the MLB is a joke and it will never be conducted in a fair manner, at least not while Selig is running the show.You think Cliff Lee is the final straw? Baseball's been a non-competitive joke for at least a decade. It's Kevin Brown one year, Randy Johnson the next, CC Sabathia, Ramiro Mendoza, Jeff Weaver, Cliff Lee.... The Yankees love to overpay for big-time pitchers. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. 1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said: and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lights Out Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Yeah, true, but to be fair, the Yankees haven't always had a good pitching staff. Now, though, they have one of the best in baseball, which is why the possibility of Cliff Lee in pinstripes is so gross. POTD: 2/4/12 3/4/12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epper Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 If the Bankees end up getting Lee, I think we can all safely agree that the MLB is a joke and it will never be conducted in a fair manner, at least not while Selig is running the show.How does the Yankees trading top prospects for a Free-Agent-to-Be make the MLB a "joke" and "unfair". Any team could make the same move.I'm as big a Yankee-hater as there is, but that's just a dumb statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lights Out Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 When the Yankees already have one of the best pitching staffs in baseball, there's no conceivable reason to get Cliff Lee except "now the Red Sox can't get him." That's egotistical and ridiculous. It's the baseball equivalent of the Pau Gasol trade. POTD: 2/4/12 3/4/12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 When the Yankees already have one of the best pitching staffs in baseball, there's no conceivable reason to get Cliff Lee except "now the Red Sox can't get him." That's egotistical and ridiculous. It's the baseball equivalent of the Pau Gasol trade.No, it's called wanting to win. Any of us would love it if our teams could have that great of a chance of a championship and stick it to our rivals. It just ticks me off that the Phillies had him and gave him away for no reason whatsoever. Could've had Halladay-Lee-Hamels. 9M is nothing for Cliff Lee. Nothing. "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueYankee26 Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 3 Way trade between Yynks, Phils, M's. Yankees get Cliff Lee, Jayson Werth to M's and Javier Vazquez to the Phillies as well. trueyankee26.wordpress.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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