Another List By Espn

[epper]

Furthermore, I dispute the notion that one has to do something to be able to judge it. Why do I have to have driven a NASCAR car to be able to say whether or not it's not a sport? That's ludicrous. Do I have to ride the Tour de France to say it's brutal and grueling? Do I have to go to Iraq to say war is rough?

if you would have read my reply closely, you would see that i never once said "get in the car, then tell me if its a sport." i said "get in the car, then tell if they're athletes" in my honest opinion, if you were to do what they do for 4 hours, im pretty sure you'll change your opinion of only needing "a little hand-eye coodination and reckless abandon". i think if you told Tony Stewart or Dale Jr. that theyre not athletes, they'd smack you one upside the head.

not trying to start a war here, just trying to defend the ATHLETES of one of my favourite SPORTS.

[paynomind]

I appologize for not appropriately quoting. You'd think I worked for political campaigns, huh?

OK...

because they are not the primary actors in the sport

So, this simple line is where our paths diverge in the yellow wood, huh? You and I agree that what they do requires; strength, skill, exersion, and stamina. However, we disagree on the .. lets see... amount of influence this preparation and resulting exursion has on the outcome of the event.

Fair to say?

[sensing you nodding]

ok, then if the driver does not influence much of the race, then how do the cars start? How to they accellerate? How do they turn? Oh, yeah... the driver. I like airplanes as much as the next guy, but i'm not gonna say my flight to Pheonix had hardly anything to do with the pilot who flew me there.

Here is another way to look at it. If the drivers don't have much to do with it, why do some certain drivers continue to place highly in races, while others seem to finish further back? Michael Schumacher wins races like Barry shoots steriods: any damn time he wants. In IROC races, where they take out ANY car preparation advantage, it is 100% man vs. man.

I couldn't pretend to even look like I was participating in a race without months of just simple aerobic and muscular conditioning.... not to mention skill development.

That, to me.. is a sport.

[Waffles]

I like airplanes as much as the next guy, but i'm not gonna say my flight to Pheonix had hardly anything to do with the pilot who flew me there.

I realize this was an analogy (and G-d knows I've made enough of those), but it brought me back to SyPhi's point about those who use their athleticism towards nonathletic endeavors. Dunno if that's relevant to anything, but it sounded interesting in my head .

It must sound like I'm repeating myself (probably because I am), but I just have a hard time getting past the fact that the car - a complex machine - is so closely responsible for the proper function of a race. Sure, an individual driver's driving ability and preparation does affect his operation of this machine relative to that of other drivers and other machines, but it's still comes down to the car.

To get back to a previous analogy (and this is where I think the distinction between sport and pseudosport lies), a tennis racket is a woven oval on a stick with no moving parts, whereas a car is a machine capable of doing more towards its end (that is, more responsible for its user's success) than a tennis racket.

Again, I'm not belittling the skill it takes to operate a race car successfully. Just because I don't think it's a sport, doesn't mean I don't recognize that it's no walk in the park either.

[paynomind]

I think that is fair. One man's sport is another man's hobby. I can dig it.

I, myself, even wonder about the guys in like, America's Cup sailboat racing. They kinda do something similar to race car drivers, but they lift and move sails, but they dont go as fast, or... bah! Its all subjective.

Nice conversation, by the way. THIS type of discussion is a large reason i'm around in the Sports Discussion boards. I love hearing intelligent dicourse that doesn't have to stop after two and a half minutes to take a commercial break.

Proved your points well, guys. Nicely done.

[Gamingboy]

1. I think the Wrestlers they mean is REAL WRESTLERS, like in the olympics.

2. I still say that Hockey, Baseball and Lacrosse are the hardest, since they both require far more hand eye coordination. And Hand-eye coordination cannot develop as easily as brute strength or fighting skills.

My top ten list goes (DON'T BASH IT):

1. Ice Hockey

2. Lacrosse

3. Baseball (again, hitting a 95 MPH round ball with a rounded side of a bat IS the hardest thing to do in sports)

4. Football

5. Basketball

6. Track & Field

7. Rugby

8. Gymnastics

9. Rodeo

10. Water Polo

Honorable mentions: Boxing, Tennis, Skiing, "extreme" sports and archery (for the sole reason of the frustration it causes).

[See Red]

3. Baseball (again, hitting a 95 MPH round ball with a rounded side of a bat IS the hardest thing to do in sports)

Yes... but that's the only difficult aspect of baseball. I'll leave it at that.

[Shmee]

I liken the whole racecar (that's a palindrome for anyone who cares) thing to the skates that roller hockey players wear. If I have better bearings and softer wheels, the logically I should be able to go faster than a player with not as high-tech skates. However, if he laearns to pace himself better, make his turns better, and has trained himself more physically and mentally than I have, then there's no reason why he shouldn't be able to over take me if we were to skate around a rink for a kajillion laps like they do in the 500 auto races. I NEVER thought I'd have to defend auto racing. Feh.

[-kj]

Yes... but that's the only difficult aspect of baseball. I'll leave it at that.

Oh, I dunno, throwing the ball 95mph to start with is a pretty good feat. Or running down a fly ball, or a shortstop going deep into the hole to get a grounder and still making the throw to first to get the out, or...

I mean, I still place hockey over baseball in an instant, but claiming that hitting is the only difficult aspect?

[Joshawaggie]

Yes... but that's the only difficult aspect of baseball.  I'll leave it at that.

Oh, I dunno, throwing the ball 95mph to start with is a pretty good feat. Or running down a fly ball, or a shortstop going deep into the hole to get a grounder and still making the throw to first to get the out, or...

I mean, I still place hockey over baseball in an instant, but claiming that hitting is the only difficult aspect?

agreed.

baseball = NOT EASY

[See Red]

Yes... but that's the only difficult aspect of baseball. I'll leave it at that.

Oh, I dunno, throwing the ball 95mph to start with is a pretty good feat. Or running down a fly ball, or a shortstop going deep into the hole to get a grounder and still making the throw to first to get the out, or...

I mean, I still place hockey over baseball in an instant, but claiming that hitting is the only difficult aspect?

First off... the ability to throw the ball 95 MPH is something that is inherited. It's not a skill that one can easily attain. Muscle helps... but muscle doesn't do much if youre born without the ability to do it, in the first place.

Second off... running after a fly ball is a hard thing to do? It requires two skills... running, and looking up at the ball. If you can't do those two things, then you're A. too drunk and need to sit out for the remainder of your beer league game or B. were slobbering all over the windows of the short bus as a kid.

Third off... Fielding grounders is not that hard, it's a skill I had down when I was playing 5th grade little league. I could track down a ball, make diving grabs, make back handed grabs or what have you... and I was in 5th grade. It's not difficult. And the ability to throw to first base from deep in the hole comes from A. Your inherited ability to throw the ball or B. your muscles in your arms. Having strong arms is not a talent. Accurately throwing across your body can be, but then again, i know alot of people who can do that.

And finally, don't you think their's a reason parents put their kids into Baseball and Soccer leagues when they're young? Is it because parents want their kids to fine tune the art of running after a ball? No, it's because they're easy ways for their kids to participate and excercise

[jkrdevil]

And finally, don't you think their's a reason parents put their kids into Baseball and Soccer leagues when they're young? Is it because parents want their kids to fine tune the art of running after a ball? No, it's because they're easy ways for their kids to participate and excercise

I disagree, I think the reason parents put their kids in Baseball and Soccer is becuase they are cheap to play. You don't need tons of equipment to play. For Baseball all you need is a glove and a bat, and those things don't cost much.

A major reason why alot of kids don't play hockey is becuase of the cost. It cost over $1000 to play on a team, then add a couple hundred dollars for equipment. It cost alot. Then add the fact that the parents don't want to get up around 4 in the mourning to take their kid to a 5 am practice. Which is another thing, Baseball and Soccer are played in the afternoon.

[Gamingboy]

Yes... but that's the only difficult aspect of baseball. I'll leave it at that.

Oh, I dunno, throwing the ball 95mph to start with is a pretty good feat. Or running down a fly ball, or a shortstop going deep into the hole to get a grounder and still making the throw to first to get the out, or...

I mean, I still place hockey over baseball in an instant, but claiming that hitting is the only difficult aspect?

First off... the ability to throw the ball 95 MPH is something that is inherited. It's not a skill that one can easily attain. Muscle helps... but muscle doesn't do much if youre born without the ability to do it, in the first place.

Second off... running after a fly ball is a hard thing to do? It requires two skills... running, and looking up at the ball. If you can't do those two things, then you're A. too drunk and need to sit out for the remainder of your beer league game or B. were slobbering all over the windows of the short bus as a kid.

Third off... Fielding grounders is not that hard, it's a skill I had down when I was playing 5th grade little league. I could track down a ball, make diving grabs, make back handed grabs or what have you... and I was in 5th grade. It's not difficult. And the ability to throw to first base from deep in the hole comes from A. Your inherited ability to throw the ball or B. your muscles in your arms. Having strong arms is not a talent. Accurately throwing across your body can be, but then again, i know alot of people who can do that.

And finally, don't you think their's a reason parents put their kids into Baseball and Soccer leagues when they're young? Is it because parents want their kids to fine tune the art of running after a ball? No, it's because they're easy ways for their kids to participate and excercise

Only a person who has never played baseball would make those arguments.

[Fusebazell]

Then add the fact that the parents don't want to get up around 4 in the mourning to take their kid to a 5 am practice. Which is another thing, Baseball and Soccer are played in the afternoon.

That is part of the reason I stopped playing hockey, I didn't want to wake up at 5 in the morning to be at a 6 AM practice.

[paynomind]

And finally, don't you think their's a reason parents put their kids into Baseball and Soccer leagues when they're young?  Is it because parents want their kids to fine tune the art of running after a ball?  No, it's because they're easy ways for their kids to participate and excercise

I disagree, I think the reason parents put their kids in Baseball and Soccer is becuase they are cheap to play. You don't need tons of equipment to play. For Baseball all you need is a glove and a bat, and those things don't cost much.

A major reason why alot of kids don't play hockey is becuase of the cost. It cost over $1000 to play on a team, then add a couple hundred dollars for equipment. It cost alot. Then add the fact that the parents don't want to get up around 4 in the mourning to take their kid to a 5 am practice. Which is another thing, Baseball and Soccer are played in the afternoon.

I'm feeling soccer and baseball being VERY different.

Baseball is a skill, a hobby, an game.

Soccer is an aerobic exercise, as well as a skill, and a sport.

My kids play soccer so they will get in/stay in good/better shape,

but they play baseball to learn the skils and actions required of it.

I have never been exhausted after a baseball game. But I sure did lay ont he field aftre a soccer game for an hour till i had the energy to limp to the car.

[Brass]

Rugby should defintely rank higher.

[Brass]

Rugby just isn't hard for the skills, it's hard to endure this stuff:

Really have to have the walnuts to play this sport.

[DEAD!]

Really have to have the walnuts to play this sport.

That's also a sign that you may have prostate cancer....

[-kj]

Likewise Aussie Rules. I was beat after tying to play ten minutes of that stuff a few weeks ago. Yikes.