NHL 2011-2012: Possible Uniform Changes

[BigMac12]

Failed to exist, for the most part.

What about the early years at the US Airways Center? When the arena was sold out? And the playoffs?

Try to find pictures from games NOT involving Detroit.

The first playoffs series was against Anaheim.

[IceCap]

Failed to exist, for the most part.

What about the early years at the US Airways Center? When the arena was sold out? And the playoffs?

That's what makes the current situation in Glendale/Idiotland even worse. You had a solid playoff team five out of the first six years they were in Phoenix. Yet after that people stopped caring. What should have been enough to establish a fanbase in a non-traditional market (regular playoff appearances right out of the gate) failed to take.

[IceCap]

Appled? Did they belt the Flames with apples when they moved north?

What happened with the Flames really has no barring here, does it?

Fact is that Bettman cheered the new Jets owners on when they announced the move to Phoenix, he even scuttled local attempts to buy the team. When it looked like Coyotes would move he went to court to keep someone from buying the team and moving them to Canada and then he moved mountains to keep them in town after that. Fact is that when you compare how the Jets moved to Phoenix and how the league acted when the Coyotes looked like they might move north you have a very clear situation; it was insincere to move the Jets in the first place.

For the record, I believe franchise history should stay with a team, even if they move. I just find it laughable you have the audacity to cling to the Jets history so hard when your city flat out stole them from Winnipeg with league approval, and are now keeping them only because of league efforts and government subsidies.

I'm happy to know that Winnipeg will get another team soon, but I feel bad that the Thrashers are moving and not the Coyotes, because your market does not deserve them. If there's any justice on G-d's green Earth that team will be out of Arizona by next off-season.

Who then Deserves to have a team?

If the choices are Phoenix or Atlanta? Atlanta in a heartbeat. Am I saying that Atlanta's a sure thing? No. The Thrashers aren't nearly as worse off as the Coyotes are, financially speaking. There's still time to try and make something work in Atlanta. Maybe it will, maybe it won't, but they deserve more then this. They've drawn solid numbers when they've been competitive. The past two years the Coyotes have played some of the best hockey in franchise history and they've had two of their worst years, in terms of attendance, yet.

Further, the point you've failed to address because you don't like having to admit it, is that the Jets were flat-out stolen from Winnipeg, while the league now will do anything to keep them in Phoenix. To borrow a phrase from you, how is that justice?

EXACTLY! I dont understand what the deal is with bettman. He does all this BS for the yotes (who are worse off than we are) and you see daily updates on nhl.com and press conferences galore yet you havent seen or heard from him about the Thrashers... WHY? IT makes no sense!

There are two theories.

The first is that it was Bettman who organized the Jets-to-Phoenix move in the first place. His ego can't handle that being undone.

The second is that Jim Balsillie tried to buy the Coyotes and move them to Hamilton, and in the court case that followed that attempted deal he more or less said hockey won't work in the desert. Bettman's ego can't handle Balsillie being proven right. Even if he's not involved in the Winnipeg deal Bettman will feel Balsillie's position will be vindicated if the Coyotes move back to Canada.

Either way you're losing your team because of one man's inability to admit he made a mistake 15 years ago.

[BigMac12]

If the choices are Phoenix or Atlanta? Atlanta in a heartbeat. Am I saying that Atlanta's a sure thing? No. The Thrashers aren't nearly as worse off as the Coyotes are, financially speaking. They've drawn solid numbers when they've been competitive. The past two years the Coyotes have played some of the best hockey in franchise history and they've had two of their worst years, in terms of attendance, yet.

Further, the point you've failed to address because you don't like having to admit it, is that the Jets were flat-out stolen from Winnipeg, while the league now will do anything to keep them in Phoenix. To borrow a phrase from you, how is that justice?

How did we steal the Jets? Are you accusing us Coyotes fans as criminals?

This feels like the same bigotry leveled against the state of Israel. (Yes, I'm going there.)

[Patchey13]

If the choices are Phoenix or Atlanta? Atlanta in a heartbeat. Am I saying that Atlanta's a sure thing? No. The Thrashers aren't nearly as worse off as the Coyotes are, financially speaking. They've drawn solid numbers when they've been competitive. The past two years the Coyotes have played some of the best hockey in franchise history and they've had two of their worst years, in terms of attendance, yet.

Further, the point you've failed to address because you don't like having to admit it, is that the Jets were flat-out stolen from Winnipeg, while the league now will do anything to keep them in Phoenix. To borrow a phrase from you, how is that justice?

How did we steal the Jets? Are you accusing us Coyotes fans as criminals?

This feels like the same bigotry leveled against the state of Israel. (Yes, I'm going there.)

Dear lord.

[hockey week]

Who owns the franchise history of the Golden Seals? The Barons? There's no reason why the Thrashers' history couldn't simply end. They would be a franchise with a beginning and end, same as the Maroons and Americans.

Can you really ask a city to ignore its hockey history?

IIRC the Stars do technically....although given the circumstances of the creation of the San Jose Sharks, they could probably lay a decent claim to them. This presumes, once again though, that anybody would WANT the history of the runt of the 1967 litter.

Why can't the Thrashers' history be considered another technicality? The Thrashers have the luxury of being the only entry in the class of 1999, but if you take that last expansion (1995-2000), Nashville, Atlanta, Columbus, Minnesota...how is Atlanta NOT the runt of that litter? I think they'd edge out Columbus on this one.

The closest parallels in the NHL are when a team moves and an expansion franchise is placed there (Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Ottawa, St. Louis, Colorado, Atlanta, Minnesota, and to a much lesser extent, northern Ohio and the Bay Area), and really any other examples of this kind of thing featured a team deliberately leaving its heritage behind (a la the Browns).

Actually, wait a minute. Baltimore Colts moved to Indianapolis and took its name and records with it, then the Cleveland Browns moved to Baltimore, leaving its name and records and became the Baltimore Ravens. So the history of the Browns stayed in Cleveland, and the Baltimore franchise chose a new name. There absolutely is precedent for leaving the Thrashers' history in Atlanta, but becoming the Jets again is still problematic.

Is there a better example in Baseball? There was a LOT of movement with those early franchises, but I don't know the history well enough.

[BigMac12]

I found this off of wikipedia:

In December 1995, Jerry Colangelo, owner of the NBA's Phoenix Suns and MLB's Arizona Diamondbacks, along with Phoenix businessmen Steven Gluckstern and Richard Burke and a local investor group bought the team with plans to move it to Phoenix for the 1996?97 season.

How is buying a team "stealing?"

[IceCap]

If the choices are Phoenix or Atlanta? Atlanta in a heartbeat. Am I saying that Atlanta's a sure thing? No. The Thrashers aren't nearly as worse off as the Coyotes are, financially speaking. They've drawn solid numbers when they've been competitive. The past two years the Coyotes have played some of the best hockey in franchise history and they've had two of their worst years, in terms of attendance, yet.

Further, the point you've failed to address because you don't like having to admit it, is that the Jets were flat-out stolen from Winnipeg, while the league now will do anything to keep them in Phoenix. To borrow a phrase from you, how is that justice?

This feels like the same bigotry leveled against the state of Israel. (Yes, I'm going there.)

I'm Jewish you moron. Don't degrade the seriousness of that situation by dragging it into your city's pathetic attempt to keep a hockey team no one cares about. Dear Lord, this is almost insulting.

How did we steal the Jets? Are you accusing us Coyotes fans as criminals?

I've explained it three times already. So please, try to follow this time.

The Jets were going to be sold to a group that wanted to move them to Phoenix following the 1995-96 season. Gary Bettman wanted this to happen, expressed his desire that it happen, and was a cheerleader for the Phoenix ownership group. He actively scuttled attempts to put together an alternative ownership group that would have kept them in Phoenix. When it came time to approve the relocation Bettman happily came out in favour of moving the team.

Fast forward to 2009. Jim Balsillie tries to buy the team to move them to Hamilton. Bettman says he can't, a court battle ensues. The league wins. TNSE, headed by 17th richest man in the world Lord David Thomson, is rumoured to be interested in buying the team. Despite this Bettman insists they find an owner who's committed to Phoenix. When asked why he's turned down two potential, wealthy owners who would move the team to Canada Bettman says it isn't about the US or Canada, he just wants to keep all the teams where they are. Yet in 1995 and 1996 he expressed his desire that the Jets move. Comes off as hypocritical to me.

When you compare Bettman's actions and rhetoric during the Jets-to-Phoenix move to the potential Coyotes-to-Hamilton and Coyotes-to-Winnipeg discussions it seems as if Phoenix flat out stole the Jets with league approval.

[Patchey13]

I found this off of wikipedia:

In December 1995, Jerry Colangelo, owner of the NBA's Phoenix Suns and MLB's Arizona Diamondbacks, along with Phoenix businessmen Steven Gluckstern and Richard Burke and a local investor group bought the team with plans to move it to Phoenix for the 1996?97 season.

How is buying a team "stealing?"

You're the one that mentioned stealing...

[BigMac12]

I found this off of wikipedia:

In December 1995, Jerry Colangelo, owner of the NBA's Phoenix Suns and MLB's Arizona Diamondbacks, along with Phoenix businessmen Steven Gluckstern and Richard Burke and a local investor group bought the team with plans to move it to Phoenix for the 1996?97 season.

How is buying a team "stealing?"

You're the one that mentioned stealing...

No, Ice-Cap mentioned it.

[IceCap]

I found this off of wikipedia:

In December 1995, Jerry Colangelo, owner of the NBA's Phoenix Suns and MLB's Arizona Diamondbacks, along with Phoenix businessmen Steven Gluckstern and Richard Burke and a local investor group bought the team with plans to move it to Phoenix for the 1996?97 season.

How is buying a team "stealing?"

You're the one that mentioned stealing...

No, Ice-Cap mentioned it.

And I've explained it. Four times. Either you're ignoring it or you're just dense.

[Patchey13]

I found this off of wikipedia:

In December 1995, Jerry Colangelo, owner of the NBA's Phoenix Suns and MLB's Arizona Diamondbacks, along with Phoenix businessmen Steven Gluckstern and Richard Burke and a local investor group bought the team with plans to move it to Phoenix for the 1996–97 season.

How is buying a team "stealing?"

You're the one that mentioned stealing...

No, Ice-Cap mentioned it.

Okay, I saw the post, I don't really think stealing is the right word, but yeah, it was hypocritical.

Either you're ignoring it or you're just dense.

He's dense.

[BigMac12]

I've explained it three times already. So please, try to follow this time.

The Jets were going to be sold to a group that wanted to move them to Phoenix following the 1995-96 season. Gary Bettman wanted this to happen, expressed his desire that it happen, and was a cheerleader for the Phoenix ownership group. He actively scuttled attempts to put together an alternative ownership group that would have kept them in Phoenix. When it came time to approve the relocation Bettman happily came out in favour of moving the team.

Fast forward to 2009. Jim Balsillie tries to buy the team to move them to Hamilton. Bettman says he can't, a court battle ensues. The league wins. TNSE, headed by 17th richest man in the world Lord David Thomson, is rumoured to be interested in buying the team. Despite this Bettman insists they find an owner who's committed to Phoenix. When asked why he's turned down two potential, wealthy owners who would move the team to Canada Bettman says it isn't about the US or Canada, he just wants to keep all the teams where they are. Yet in 1995 and 1996 he expressed his desire that the Jets move. Comes off as hypocritical to me.

When you compare Bettman's actions and rhetoric during the Jets-to-Phoenix move to the potential Coyotes-to-Hamilton and Coyotes-to-Winnipeg discussions it seems as if Phoenix flat out stole the Jets with league approval.

We didn't steal the Jets. They were bought legally.

[IceCap]

I've explained it three times already. So please, try to follow this time.

The Jets were going to be sold to a group that wanted to move them to Phoenix following the 1995-96 season. Gary Bettman wanted this to happen, expressed his desire that it happen, and was a cheerleader for the Phoenix ownership group. He actively scuttled attempts to put together an alternative ownership group that would have kept them in Phoenix. When it came time to approve the relocation Bettman happily came out in favour of moving the team.

Fast forward to 2009. Jim Balsillie tries to buy the team to move them to Hamilton. Bettman says he can't, a court battle ensues. The league wins. TNSE, headed by 17th richest man in the world Lord David Thomson, is rumoured to be interested in buying the team. Despite this Bettman insists they find an owner who's committed to Phoenix. When asked why he's turned down two potential, wealthy owners who would move the team to Canada Bettman says it isn't about the US or Canada, he just wants to keep all the teams where they are. Yet in 1995 and 1996 he expressed his desire that the Jets move. Comes off as hypocritical to me.

When you compare Bettman's actions and rhetoric during the Jets-to-Phoenix move to the potential Coyotes-to-Hamilton and Coyotes-to-Winnipeg discussions it seems as if Phoenix flat out stole the Jets with league approval.

We didn't steal the Jets. They were bought legally.

For the love of.....

They were bought legally and the league allowed it to happen. The Commissioner was a cheerleader for the move.

Twice Canadian groups interested in buying the Coyotes and moving them to Canada were shot down because the same Commissioner said "we want to keep our franchises were they are." That's hypocritical.

I'll ask you in language you can understand. How is that justice?

[BigMac12]

For the love of.....

They were bought legally and the league allowed it to happen. The Commissioner was a cheerleader for the move.

Twice Canadian groups interested in buying the Coyotes and moving them to Canada were shot down because the same Commissioner said "we want to keep our franchises were they are." That's hypocritical.

I'll ask you in language you can understand. How is that justice?

Your case of Phoenix "Stealing" the jets is flat out wrong because they were legally bought. If it was illegal, then your stealing would be appropriate.

How about us Phoenix Coyotes fans, who's only crime is just their existance?

[IceCap]

For the love of.....

They were bought legally and the league allowed it to happen. The Commissioner was a cheerleader for the move.

Twice Canadian groups interested in buying the Coyotes and moving them to Canada were shot down because the same Commissioner said "we want to keep our franchises were they are." That's hypocritical.

I'll ask you in language you can understand. How is that justice?

Your case of Phoenix "Stealing" the jets is flat out wrong because they were legally bought. If it was illegal, then your stealing would be appropriate.

How about us Phoenix Coyotes fans, who's only crime is just their existance?

You really are an idiot, you know that?

[BigMac12]

You really are an idiot, you know that?

This coming from a person who claims a town "Stole" a franchise by legally purchasing it. Your credibility is much more dubious than mine.

Again, my Israel analogy fits. Our only crime is our very existance.

[UnclearInitial]

For the love of.....

They were bought legally and the league allowed it to happen. The Commissioner was a cheerleader for the move.

Twice Canadian groups interested in buying the Coyotes and moving them to Canada were shot down because the same Commissioner said "we want to keep our franchises were they are." That's hypocritical.

I'll ask you in language you can understand. How is that justice?

Your case of Phoenix "Stealing" the jets is flat out wrong because they were legally bought. If it was illegal, then your stealing would be appropriate.

How about us Phoenix Coyotes fans, who's only crime is just their existance?

Or lack of existence.

Bettman wanted to move the Jets yet he now says he wants to keep every team where they are, while at the same time moving the Thrashers, you moron.

[Patchey13]

Lets just move the Coyotes and turn the arena into a parking lot.

[BigMac12]

Or lack of existence.

We're still there. If the first playoffs series vs. Anaheim didn't prove it, you guys shouldn't call me an "idiot."