Pittsburgh Penguins rebrand

[JackFr]

My main problem is the primary logo. It's just too abstract and weird. It just looks too awkward to stand on its own.

I agree about the concept forum. Maybe we should have two; one for uniform-only concepts and one for logos? I've resolved to from now on only post original rebrands and logos.

Also, I'd like to say that your Islanders set completely reshaped the way I do concepts.

[bigbean24]

I think this yellow is better for the Penguins.

[elliott]

I'm glad this topic has generated some interest. I'm planning on responding to most of the responses tomorrow to keep the converssation going but im fairly drunk right now and that jus seems impossible at the moment.

Expect an alternate or two to be posted soon. And I'm gonna post all the old mlb rebrands I never showed pretty soon. I want to keep posting concepts this summer, thanks guys.

[CS85]

I'm glad this topic has generated some interest. I'm planning on responding to most of the responses tomorrow to keep the converssation going but im fairly drunk right now and that jus seems impossible at the moment.

Expect an alternate or two to be posted soon. And I'm gonna post all the old mlb rebrands I never showed pretty soon. I want to keep posting concepts this summer, thanks guys.

This may sound really pathetic, but one of the main things I want to do when I'm hammered is check up on the message boards.

[Epiphanic]

I'll echo those who say that it's nice to see a concept with an original logo. I'm a fan of all the sweaters. My criticism comes is on the secondary logo.

The secondary is terrible as it stands. It's virtually all due to being a head-on viewpoint. I think it looks like a cross-eyed crow. I don't think you need to necessarily do a penguin for the secondary either. Secondary logos can be more abstract with relation to the identity I think. Even something like an igloo with a P on it would be a fine secondary.

[elliott]

I read the whole thing and I agree with pretty much everything you said about the concepts forum. And I remember all the great concepts that you and people like AAO and GFB make when I first joined, that's what really got me hooked on this site. You always bring something new and inventive, in fact, I can hardly EVER remember you recycling logos, it's always new. You also inspired me to try to be more creativie and make the move from paint to inkscape, because I was sick of seeing the same sub-par paint concepts and I was one of the people contributing to that. Now I'm sort of ranting. But I think one of the main things the concepts forum is missing right now is people like you that made these insanely good concepts. Its great to see you back and that you're giving this another try. I'm on my phone now so I can't see the images very well, but the uniforms look pretty nice. I've often thought that hockey should experiment with some pinstripes. And I can't look at the logos now, but if I check them out later I'll tell you what I think.

So welcome back, and hopefully you stick around awhile this time!

EDIT: looking at the logos now...I like the general idea of the primary logo, but it just seems like a somewhat awkward position for a penguin. I can't really tell what he's doing, if he's flying, waddling, or just has his fins (I think that's what you call them?) in the air. The angular fins also sort of look like paddles to me. But I get what you were going for, trying to match them up with the angles of the triangle. Did you try and see what it looks like with curved fins? It might look terrible, but it's worth a shot. The only other thing that kinda bothers me is the yellow stroke on the right side of the logo. It almost looks like too much yellow, I dunno. I'll echo what nash61 said about the fighter plane vibe on the secondary. It's an interesting take on it, but I think if you removed the triangle in the background it would help tremendously (I mean, you already have one on the other two logos). The penguin also looks a little cross-eyed, I would suggest moving his pupils a little farther apart. No nitpicks on the tertiary, it looks pretty solid and the pinstripes are a nice touch. Oh, and your custom wordmark and number sheet are pretty impressive.

Thanks. And yea, the primary logo is an very abstract representation of a penguin, and clearly, many parts of this concept are not anatomically correct. My penguins concept from like 2 years ago features a very static penguin, and although the wings and body might be dimensionally correct, it ends up looking fat and weak. Penguins are not particularly intimidating animals and I attempted to give this representation some speed and some intimidation factor in its stance. Thus, some aspects, like the wings, look more abstract.

I agree about the secondary, its my least favorite part of the concept. I'm gonna work on it, and I think dropping the triangle would, certainly, help.

Just a few comments. Regarding your opinions on the quality of concepts around here, I do think it's worth pointing out that just because something only took a few hours to make doesn't mean it's crap, and just because it took a week doesn't mean it's a prize-winner, either.

True, yet the correlation is incredibly high. If you take one day on a concept, you could have a moment of inspiration and a fantastic concept could just come flooding out in a matter of hours. Its happened to me, when I've had nothing to do and been full of ideas. This COULD happen, but it usually doesn't. Usually, when hours are spent on a concept, its some type of fill-in-between-the-lines paint bull***t. When I see a thread where the designer is using paint, i automatically think as i click on the next page, "god, what reebok edge template is going to manipulated next?". I've seen all the reebok edge templates, and I don't care what the TBL alternate template would look like recolored for the Flames. I can imagine that on my f'ing own. REAL concepts take time, to come up with new templates (new logos are preferable but not necessary because its pretty hard, especially for those just learning the ropes), use new fonts, provide presentations different than the way you received the already-formatted paint template (yeah, presentations important, believe it or not). I've always said that I'd rather see a really terrible concept with some original idea brought to the table, like a new logo rendering, even it looks terrible, over a good-looking concept that uses old ideas and brings nothing new to the table. At least a terrible, creative concept shows EFFORT, and there's always potential to improve. Some of my favorite threads are ones that are 5 pages long, the first logo is awful, and there is a progression of like 10 different drafts, finally getting to something that looks good in the end. Threads like that are spurred by constructive criticism AND listening to the comments. It's a two way street. That's when this forum is at its best.

You're awesome, dude. You were one of the main contributers when I first joined, and dare I say, an inspiration. I sucked pretty hard with designing anything at first. Not too long ago, I went back, and a lot of things clicked. For some reason, I started making better art. I personally promise to make some concepts this summer. Let's please start filling up the forum with real original logos. My minor league series was going pretty strong, and I started that series with a similar lament to the one you posted. but I think I'm gonna go after some NBA teams now. Anyways, good to see you back.

I appreciate the compliment dude, when I was in high school and doing a lot of redesign series it never really dawned on me that I was being an inspiration to others, because I was doing it to practice my skills, and also because I was bored after school. But I mean its good to hear and I definitely always tried to be a positive part of the concept forum.

My main problem is the primary logo. It's just too abstract and weird. It just looks too awkward to stand on its own.

I agree about the concept forum. Maybe we should have two; one for uniform-only concepts and one for logos? I've resolved to from now on only post original rebrands and logos.

Also, I'd like to say that your Islanders set completely reshaped the way I do concepts.

Yeah, it's pretty weird. Haha. But that's what I like to hear. That was the point. It's a huge divergence from the current penguins branding and that's what I was trying to do, just change everything. HOWEVER, I disagree that it can't stand on its own, I think the mark is strong enough because it brings the familiar triangle theme, plus the dynamic position of the penguin, plus the yellow-black-white stripe that is seen throughout the concept. I know that some of the line work is weird and makes it hard to see exactly what the penguin is doing, but I was essentially trying to seamlessly integrate the penguin into the triangle shape, while giving it a fierce position and facial expression. I wasnt really thinking about exactly what it's DOING, I suppose. Like, flying, I mean, no it's not really flying, I'd agree with an earlier assertion that he just has his fins in the air, but I was trying to make a well-balanced and integrated logo, not really attempting to make it fly or anything like that.

I don't think there should be two concept forums, there's no way it would work. Not enough people post in the one we have already for that to happen. We NEED (at least a few of) the sh***y paint concepts because they generate interest and discussion, but we also NEED all of the designers who think its fine to just post half-assed concepts after 2 hours of work to take more time, observe what other, more experienced people are doing, and apply that to their own work. I'm sure that many of the more experienced people are turned off from the forum because all they see is this weakass stuff, I know that I can attest to that, I took a long time off because its pretty disheartening to see so many halfassed concepts. It's a learning curve. But it's not that hard to do something as simple as EXPLAIN why you like a concept, and what needs to be changed, rather than just say "I like it" and move on with your day. That's not constructive criticism. That's a main problem with the forum, the lack of helpful comments that go into a thread; another main problem in my eyes is the lack of response when people do actually offer criticism. You can't just brush it aside in these "series" that people come up with. You have to refine the concept until it improves, not just move on to the next one because its already been made (another sign of lack of time put in). So yea, those are the main problems i see with general decline of quality here. As much as I passionately hate paint concepts, they are essentially the representation of noobs not having proper direction because they dont have anything to look at and say, "hey, this is what I should be doing, this is the amount of work I need to put in". This is just my opinion, but paint concepts, while annoying, are not the main problem. The main problems are lack of commenting and lack of response by the thread maker once the comments are posted.

In regards to your comments on the Islanders concept, that's really nice of you to say, I appreciate it. Whenever I show my friends all of my work (because they are usually genuinely interested, which is cool), the Islanders are usually the first thing I show, because I am proud of it and I think that concept is the best thing I've ever done.

This may sound really pathetic, but one of the main things I want to do when I'm hammered is check up on the message boards.

Haha, that would be a terrible idea in my case, I'd ramble even more than usual and I'd make even less sense. I was pretty f'ed up last night but chillin at the frat castle, not the best environment for posting on a message board.

[JackFr]

My main problem is the primary logo. It's just too abstract and weird. It just looks too awkward to stand on its own.

I agree about the concept forum. Maybe we should have two; one for uniform-only concepts and one for logos? I've resolved to from now on only post original rebrands and logos.

Also, I'd like to say that your Islanders set completely reshaped the way I do concepts.

Yeah, it's pretty weird. Haha. But that's what I like to hear. That was the point. It's a huge divergence from the current penguins branding and that's what I was trying to do, just change everything. HOWEVER, I disagree that it can't stand on its own, I think the mark is strong enough because it brings the familiar triangle theme, plus the dynamic position of the penguin, plus the yellow-black-white stripe that is seen throughout the concept. I know that some of the line work is weird and makes it hard to see exactly what the penguin is doing, but I was essentially trying to seamlessly integrate the penguin into the triangle shape, while giving it a fierce position and facial expression. I wasnt really thinking about exactly what it's DOING, I suppose. Like, flying, I mean, no it's not really flying, I'd agree with an earlier assertion that he just has his fins in the air, but I was trying to make a well-balanced and integrated logo, not really attempting to make it fly or anything like that.

I don't think there should be two concept forums, there's no way it would work. Not enough people post in the one we have already for that to happen. We NEED (at least a few of) the sh***y paint concepts because they generate interest and discussion, but we also NEED all of the designers who think its fine to just post half-assed concepts after 2 hours of work to take more time, observe what other, more experienced people are doing, and apply that to their own work. I'm sure that many of the more experienced people are turned off from the forum because all they see is this weakass stuff, I know that I can attest to that, I took a long time off because its pretty disheartening to see so many halfassed concepts. It's a learning curve. But it's not that hard to do something as simple as EXPLAIN why you like a concept, and what needs to be changed, rather than just say "I like it" and move on with your day. That's not constructive criticism. That's a main problem with the forum, the lack of helpful comments that go into a thread; another main problem in my eyes is the lack of response when people do actually offer criticism. You can't just brush it aside in these "series" that people come up with. You have to refine the concept until it improves, not just move on to the next one because its already been made (another sign of lack of time put in). So yea, those are the main problems i see with general decline of quality here. As much as I passionately hate paint concepts, they are essentially the representation of noobs not having proper direction because they dont have anything to look at and say, "hey, this is what I should be doing, this is the amount of work I need to put in". This is just my opinion, but paint concepts, while annoying, are not the main problem. The main problems are lack of commenting and lack of response by the thread maker once the comments are posted.

In regards to your comments on the Islanders concept, that's really nice of you to say, I appreciate it. Whenever I show my friends all of my work (because they are usually genuinely interested, which is cool), the Islanders are usually the first thing I show, because I am proud of it and I think that concept is the best thing I've ever done.

I see your point. The problem is that there are some great original concepts that have potential to be amazing that are pushed to the bottom of the page and almost completely ignored because of a billion MS Paint concepts. Obviously we want to develop the skills of people who start small, but it is an issue for how the board's quality comes off.

[rcb05]

Love the concept, but I think there might be a bit too much yellow in the chest logo.

[Jer15]

I love the pinstripes! Without question it's unique and I think it works perfectly!

[Generic]

I agree on your comments in regard to the current state of the concepts board, it really has gone downhill. I do also think though that not everyone will be good at first, which is a small percent of the issue. Sadly the majority of the issue is just ignorance towards more experienced members trying to help these newcomers and having the newcomers get all offended and then totally not even listen to anyone, well maybe one person. I personally don't dislike MS Paint concepts, I started out using MS Paint, but I see where you're going at with the Inkscape idea.

I love the logo you made, it's really sharp looking. Theres somethings that make it awkward though, the flippers (I think they're called that : arms) seem really bulky and odd, I'd make them more curved and end in one point. The outline is also really odd, too bulky in spots, I'd slim it up a little. Other than those issues, really nice work. I'm surprised at how nice the pinstripes came out, really nice that you accomplished that.

[Keeb13r]

It's definitely creative and well-executed, so if that's what you were going for, mission successful. As a realistic NHL branding attempt though, it might be a little too outside the box. But I appreciate seeing someone willing to push the creative boundaries!

[IceCap]

Sorry I'm late to the party.

It isn't my cup of tea, but there's real creativity here.

The pinstripes are used to great affect, not dominating the concept. I'm always a fan of bringing back the PITTSBURGH script, and I'm a big fan of the striping in the gold third. The boldness of the the black and white really pop against the gold.

Glad to see you back posting concepts again.

[josh_cat_eyes]

This is terrible. Use a template that is at least to proportion. Last time I checked peoples arms are longer then their torso. And pin stripes that randomly end? Also, you are going to blind someone with that yellow. Pick a color that is a little easier on the eyes. I usually try to give constructive criticism. But my criticism to this concept is blow it up like the Toronto Maple Leafs roster, and start over. Actually picture the team using it first.

I will say that it is clean and well done for what it is. But again like the TML roster, it has some gapping holes.

[DeFrank]

For some reason it feels complicated and messy (even though its well done). The logos, colors, and pinstripes combined give it a really confusing and muddy feeling.

[Patchey13]

The logo's a huge miss. It's WAY too cartoony, to the point that I don't think it would even fit in the ECHL. The random yellow stroke going around the right side of the Penguin throws the triangle off balance. The jerseys are a good start, but you've got to make the pinstripes go all the way, or remove them. The font doesn't really work with the sharp angles of the jerseys. The alt is nice, but those chest strips NEED to go all the way around.

[elliott]

This is terrible. Use a template that is at least to proportion. Last time I checked peoples arms are longer then their torso. And pin stripes that randomly end? Also, you are going to blind someone with that yellow. Pick a color that is a little easier on the eyes. I usually try to give constructive criticism. But my criticism to this concept is blow it up like the Toronto Maple Leafs roster, and start over. Actually picture the team using it first.

I will say that it is clean and well done for what it is. But again like the TML roster, it has some gapping holes.

I appreciate the comment, but in my defense, the template is to proportion, ive been using this template for a while and i think it was originally based on speedys edge 3.0 template, which i know for a fact is to scale (thanks for the update on human anatomy though), the pin stripes fade into the base of the jersey, so they don't just randomly end, and the shade of yellow is almost exactly the same as the yellow the used before the change to vegas gold, possibly even a tad darker, maybe turn down your computer brightness. So, before you call a concept "terrible", please give some reasoning that is at least relevant.

Opinions seem to have polarized for this concept, it's pretty hit or miss. It's good though because it's generated some discussion. The alternate ideas are taking way longer than expected so I'll post those asap.