New Era Jacked the Phillies Independence Hall logo from SportsLogos.net

[dannymits]

Folks,

About six (!!!) years ago, I asked the people on these boards with help rendering/vectorizing the Phillies Independence Hall logo, which the team used from 1984-1991. Why? It's my favorite logo of all time and MLB never vectorized it.

I had a trial version of Illustrator and my attempt didn't come out so great, but something was better than nothing. The trial software ran out and I stopped bothering with it. The version of that logo, poor as it was, made it onto the sportslogos.net website. Over the years, I've seen my poorly rendered version used as avatars and on bootleg shirts. No big deal, as you could spot them as fakes. Here's the old thread as not to sound completely crazy.

Fast forward six years, I had the time to download another trial and picked up the old project. Again, I asked the people on these boards with help. This time, I managed to pull off a better version. This thread was on the front page about a month ago. And here's the result, I finally can be proud of.

Last night at Citizens Bank Park, I came across a New Era Phillies fashion cap with my rendering of the Independence Hall logo subliminated on the brim. Instead of using actual graphic designers to vectorize the logo properly, a major manufacturer felt compelled to take my old crappy, unimproved version from this website and slap it on the cap. Clearly, it's the logo from the sportslogos.net website. I was the one who drew it up in the first place. And as a testament to not really trying hard to get it right, a patch on the side uses a version of the logo that someone with real art skills actually drew up.

So, there you go. You never know when your amateur design will be slapped on a piece of merchandise and sold at a ballpark for $24.99. I'd be thrilled if it wasn't something I'd really floundered with and then got right six years later.

[JTernup]

That is awesome, did you buy the hat?

Do major companies like new era really take logos of of this site?

P.s. the new logo looks amazing, good job.

[Lee.]

Did you even read the OP?

[dannymits]

No, I didn't buy the hat. It's not exactly my style, even if they got the logo right.

[B-Rich]

Wow. Looking at the two, I can see that you're right. They jacked your ORIGINAL vector.

But I can't say I'm surprised. Something similar happened to me twice:

1. A few years back, before Katrina, the Hornets hired an ex-NASL player, Paul Mott, as their team president. I remembered him from his days with the Tampa Bay Rowdies, scanned 2 pictures of him from an old 1980 Rowdies program I had, and posted them on a fan-run Hornets message board. About a month later, on the local "Hornets Talk" TV show, they had an interview with him where they showed the same scanned black and white photos I had posted (with the same slightly askew angle, just as I had scanned it.)

2. Even better, on June 24th, 2005, my friends and I went to Cat Island, MS for a visit. We took the following picture, which I later uploaded and posted on Wikipedia as a photo reference in the "Cat Island" entry.

Not thinking it was of any value, I put it in the public domain. You can still see it up on Wikipedia. About a month ago, I came across a book for sale on Amazon.com about the island, entitled "Cat Island: The History of a Mississippi Gulf Coast Barrier Island" Here is the cover:

Man, the least he could do is give me a free copy of the book....

[Pizzaman7294]

Wow. Looking at the two, I can see that you're right. They jacked your ORIGINAL vector.

But I can't say I'm surprised. Something similar happened to me twice:

1. A few years back, before Katrina, the Hornets hired an ex-NASL player, Paul Mott, as their team president. I remembered him from his days with the Tampa Bay Rowdies, scanned 2 pictures of him from an old 1980 Rowdies program I had, and posted them on a fan-run Hornets message board. About a month later, on the local "Hornets Talk" TV show, they had an interview with him where they showed the same scanned black and white photos I had posted (with the same slightly askew angle, just as I had scanned it.)

2. Even better, on June 24th, 2005, my friends and I went to Cat Island, MS for a visit. We took the following picture, which I later uploaded and posted on Wikipedia as a photo reference in the "Cat Island" entry.

Not thinking it was of any value, I put it in the public domain. You can still see it up on Wikipedia. About a month ago, I came across a book for sale on Amazon.com about the island, entitled "Cat Island: The History of a Mississippi Gulf Coast Barrier Island" Here is the cover:

Man, the least he could do is give me a free copy of the book....

haha thats kinda funny, did you ever contact the publisher or author?

[ldswoosh33]

Thats crazy.

[Yankeefan38]

Wow. Looking at the two, I can see that you're right. They jacked your ORIGINAL vector.

But I can't say I'm surprised. Something similar happened to me twice:

1. A few years back, before Katrina, the Hornets hired an ex-NASL player, Paul Mott, as their team president. I remembered him from his days with the Tampa Bay Rowdies, scanned 2 pictures of him from an old 1980 Rowdies program I had, and posted them on a fan-run Hornets message board. About a month later, on the local "Hornets Talk" TV show, they had an interview with him where they showed the same scanned black and white photos I had posted (with the same slightly askew angle, just as I had scanned it.)

2. Even better, on June 24th, 2005, my friends and I went to Cat Island, MS for a visit. We took the following picture, which I later uploaded and posted on Wikipedia as a photo reference in the "Cat Island" entry.

Not thinking it was of any value, I put it in the public domain. You can still see it up on Wikipedia. About a month ago, I came across a book for sale on Amazon.com about the island, entitled "Cat Island: The History of a Mississippi Gulf Coast Barrier Island" Here is the cover:

Man, the least he could do is give me a free copy of the book....

haha thats kinda funny, did you ever contact the publisher or author?

that's pretty cool, you should try to contact him and you might just get that free book.

[KJTALBOT]

So you're saying that New Era, which has a license to sell official MLB merchandise, stole the logo you "created" by vectorizing a logo that is the property of the Philadelphia Phillies?

How presumptuous of you.

[DC in Da House w/o a Doubt]

Just curious, how do you know for sure that that's the same logo as the one you created? I'm too dim to see any proof.

[ElwoodCuse]

The independence hall logo was my absolute favorite Upper Deck hologram sticker way back when

[dannymits]

So you're saying that New Era, which has a license to sell official MLB merchandise, stole the logo you "created" by vectorizing a logo that is the property of the Philadelphia Phillies?

How presumptuous of you.

They may use it, obviously. But, if NE wants to use something done by an amateur, that's their prerogative.

If you can't find the authentic vector, hire someone to do it right. That's my stance.

[dannymits]

Just curious, how do you know for sure that that's the same logo as the one you created? I'm too dim to see any proof.

Real logo has two outer circles that do not intersect with the Phillies wordmark and u-shape details on the end of each stitch in the baseball. The version I did back in 2005 that ended up on the cap had one circle that did intersect and since I couldn't get the stitches right, I traced one and repeated them across the baseball, just rotating each one as I went across.

Also, I know my own limitations with Illustrator. The logo on the cap showcased those limitations.

[dannymits]

I've e-mailed a better version to Mr. Creamer and he's graciously updated the site. That means official licensees will be able to put something a little more accurate on their merchandise.

Old version

New version

Scan from 1987/1988? style guide (thanks, ColorWerx)

[andycumbee19]

How did you get him to put it on the website? I emailed him months ago to get a vectorized Charleston Rainbows logo posted , and nobody ever messaged me back. I wouldnt be suprised, though if im the only one this matters to.

[cyandlux]

I don't know about vector versions, but I'm sure someone got paid for "their" time. The book one you should take them to small claims court. You are the copyright holder of ANY photo you take. It is 100% yours and they used it illegally...plain and simple. You shouldn't be flattered you should be pissed because they didn't even bother asking you for the rights to copy it.

[Jhero34]

I don't know about vector versions, but I'm sure someone got paid for "their" time. The book one you should take them to small claims court. You are the copyright holder of ANY photo you take. It is 100% yours and they used it illegally...plain and simple. You shouldn't be flattered you should be pissed because they didn't even bother asking you for the rights to copy it.

good luck proving that in court, dont waste anyones time its a simple photo of a landscape not a photo of you and your girlfriend on the beach or something

[BrandMooreArt]

I don't know about vector versions, but I'm sure someone got paid for "their" time. The book one you should take them to small claims court. You are the copyright holder of ANY photo you take. It is 100% yours and they used it illegally...plain and simple. You shouldn't be flattered you should be pissed because they didn't even bother asking you for the rights to copy it.

good luck proving that in court, dont waste anyones time its a simple photo of a landscape not a photo of you and your girlfriend on the beach or something

well if he had the original file, digital or negative id say thats good proof.

about the logo though, id send them an invoice for your time

[deliver2david]

I don't know about vector versions, but I'm sure someone got paid for "their" time. The book one you should take them to small claims court. You are the copyright holder of ANY photo you take. It is 100% yours and they used it illegally...plain and simple. You shouldn't be flattered you should be pissed because they didn't even bother asking you for the rights to copy it.

He released the Cat Island picture into public domain. You can see his picture on Wikipedia with this disclaimer:

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible,

I grant any entity the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

Since he did this, they didn't use it illegally and didn't need to ask him for any rights because he had already given them up.

[pcgd]

Fan Deisgner: Copied an existing logo he didn't create in order to make it more clear

Pro Designer: Copied the copy believing it was legit.

Bad on the Pro for not doing more research but honestly there is no court case when someone copies your copy of a copyrighted logo.

This would be like making a counterfeit jersey based off a counterfeit jersey and then the original counterfeiter suing. I'm not comparing what you did to counterfeiting but I think you get what I'm saying.