You Can Play

[McCall]

Actually by having separate teams, more girls and more guys have the option to play. As mentioned, you'd probably have a certain number of spots required for each sex, limiting the number of each that can be on a team. Yes separate teams have limits too, but it's based on how many players an be on a team, not how many of one gender over the other. You'd open yourself up to some guys saying they weren't allowed on the team because they're not girls, basically, and vice versa. I think having coed teams (unless there's just not enough for one or the other) still carries too many issues.

[infrared41]

I hate to veer so far off topic , but do we think this new campaign by the NHL might actually lead to some players coming out while they're still in the league? My feeling is that of the big four, NHL players would be most open to a gay team mate. Anyway, I really hope the NHL campaign starts sports, and by extension society, down the path of finally getting over this ridiculous prejudice against gay people.

It boggles my mind that in 2012 there is still a raging debate over gay rights. God bless the NHL for having some decency and common sense. Lets hope that MLB, NASCAR, the NFL, and the NBA follow the NHL's lead on this. It's sad that it took this long but it's a good start.

[OnWis97]

I hate to veer so far off topic , but do we think this new campaign by the NHL might actually lead to some players coming out while they're still in the league? My feeling is that of the big four, NHL players would be most open to a gay team mate. Anyway, I really hope the NHL campaign starts sports, and by extension society, down the path of finally getting over this ridiculous prejudice against gay people.

It boggles my mind that in 2012 there is still a raging debate over gay rights. God bless the NHL for having some decency and common sense. Lets hope that MLB, NASCAR, the NFL, and the NBA follow the NHL's lead on this. It's sad that it took this long but it's a good start.

Post segment of the day...

I certainly agree with all the feelings here. MLB had some team-based short videos (I think in concert with the "It Gets Better" project). I think maybe a third or so of the teams made them.

You ask one question (do we think this new campaign by the NHL might actually lead to some players coming out while they're still in the league?) and I tend to doubt it. I appreciate the effort, and I hope this makes young people struggling with their identity have some hope and feel welcomed to play sports, etc. But it does not change what big deal it's going to be for that first "Big 4" (and it's Big 3 plus NHL Superstar) player to come out. But hopefully this is a domino in breaking down the fears, insecurities, and ignorance that go along with all elements of our culture, and sports in particular...so maybe indirectly this could lead to players coming out way down the road.

[RedSox44]

I hate to veer so far off topic , but do we think this new campaign by the NHL might actually lead to some players coming out while they're still in the league? My feeling is that of the big four, NHL players would be most open to a gay team mate. Anyway, I really hope the NHL campaign starts sports, and by extension society, down the path of finally getting over this ridiculous prejudice against gay people.

It boggles my mind that in 2012 there is still a raging debate over gay rights. God bless the NHL for having some decency and common sense. Lets hope that MLB, NASCAR, the NFL, and the NBA follow the NHL's lead on this. It's sad that it took this long but it's a good start.

Post segment of the day...

I certainly agree with all the feelings here. MLB had some team-based short videos (I think in concert with the "It Gets Better" project). I think maybe a third or so of the teams made them.

You ask one question (do we think this new campaign by the NHL might actually lead to some players coming out while they're still in the league?) and I tend to doubt it. I appreciate the effort, and I hope this makes young people struggling with their identity have some hope and feel welcomed to play sports, etc. But it does not change what big deal it's going to be for that first "Big 4" (and it's Big 3 plus NHL Superstar) player to come out. But hopefully this is a domino in breaking down the fears, insecurities, and ignorance that go along with all elements of our culture, and sports in particular...so maybe indirectly this could lead to players coming out way down the road.

Yep. Red Sox, Giants, Cubs, Rays and a few other teams made It Gets Better videos. I don't think all MLB teams did it though (shame on the ones that didn't), which leads me to believe it was each team acting independently and it wasn't a league-initiated event.

[Funky Bunky]

Just playing devil's advocate here.

We allow athletes of different races and religions to play sports. And now there's a push for athletes of all sexual orientations. But what about females? Shouldn't females be given the same chance to suit up in MLB, the NBA, NFL, NHL, etc?

If we're going to allow all the other protected classes, why not women?

Like other's have said, women just don't have the same skill sets as men. Men can do things that women can't do (and of course, women can do things men can not). But the main thing I wanted to mention was the Hayley Wickenheiser story.

You may or may not know who she is, but she is considered to be by many the Wayne Gretzky of Women's Ice Hockey. About 10 years ago, she went to play with men in a small Finnish league. The league was about the equivalent of the Central Hockey league (probably even worse), which would kind of be like Single A baseball. When she played there, she wasn't even that good, with only 4 points in 22 games. Wickenheiser, one of the greatest women ice hockey players ever, was quite unsuccessful against men who played in the low minor leagues, in Finland.

The point is, is that women just don't have the same athleticism as men. It's not sexist... hell, if there was women who can quaterback as well as Peyton Manning, I don't think teams like the Redskins or Dolphins would mind having her play for them.

[Gothamite]

Ah, but gay men do have the same athleticism as straight men, which makes this whole tangent a huge red herring.

The "IGB" videos were team-generated events.

And as you say, shame on my Brewers for not getting involved. Disgraceful.

I too hope that this will encourage more gay athletes to come out while they're still in the spotlight. Exposure to gay people furthers equal rights across the board, as stereotypes are dispelled and straights realize that gay people are more alike them than different.

[Don]

I have so much respect for the Burke family especially after hearing the story about Brendan. Its so sad that he was taken too soon but its good to know others have been inspired by his life.

[charger77]

I have so much respect for the Burke family especially after hearing the story about Brendan. Its so sad that he was taken too soon but its good to know others have been inspired by his life.

It would have been interesting to see how his story would have played out if he had the opportunity to live a full life. His brother is young as well and is a scout for the Flyers. If Brendan had not died in the accident he could possibly have become (as far as I know) the first openly gay scout, player agent or even GM.

[dfwabel]

I have so much respect for the Burke family especially after hearing the story about Brendan. Its so sad that he was taken too soon but its good to know others have been inspired by his life.

It would have been interesting to see how his story would have played out if he had the opportunity to live a full life. His brother is young as well and is a scout for the Flyers. If Brendan had not died in the accident he could possibly have become (as far as I know) the first openly gay scout, player agent or even GM.

Rick Welts, who is the President of the Golden State Warriors came out before taking that position last year. Prior to coming out, he previously held positions such as President of the Phoenix Suns, PR director for the Seattle Supersonics and was the NBA's third highest ranking official from 1996-1999. He told his story to the New York Times last May and I thought it was a topic here at the time.

[charger77]

I have so much respect for the Burke family especially after hearing the story about Brendan. Its so sad that he was taken too soon but its good to know others have been inspired by his life.

It would have been interesting to see how his story would have played out if he had the opportunity to live a full life. His brother is young as well and is a scout for the Flyers. If Brendan had not died in the accident he could possibly have become (as far as I know) the first openly gay scout, player agent or even GM.

Rick Welts, who is the President of the Golden State Warriors came out before taking that position last year. Prior to coming out, he previously held positions such as President of the Phoenix Suns, PR director for the Seattle Supersonics and was the NBA's third highest ranking official from 1996-1999. He told his story to the New York Times last May and I thought it was a topic here at the time.

I was unaware of that, I don't pay that much (if any) attention to the NBA. Was a big deal made of it? That is big news, did Sports Center make a big deal of it?

[Gothamite]

For a few days. I don't follow the NBA any more, and I read about it in the Times.

We had a good thread about it that got sidetracked to the Graveyard by some unfortunate gay-baiting.

[dfwabel]

I have so much respect for the Burke family especially after hearing the story about Brendan. Its so sad that he was taken too soon but its good to know others have been inspired by his life.

It would have been interesting to see how his story would have played out if he had the opportunity to live a full life. His brother is young as well and is a scout for the Flyers. If Brendan had not died in the accident he could possibly have become (as far as I know) the first openly gay scout, player agent or even GM.

Rick Welts, who is the President of the Golden State Warriors came out before taking that position last year. Prior to coming out, he previously held positions such as President of the Phoenix Suns, PR director for the Seattle Supersonics and was the NBA's third highest ranking official from 1996-1999. He told his story to the New York Times last May and I thought it was a topic here at the time.

I was unaware of that, I don't pay that much (if any) attention to the NBA. Was a big deal made of it? That is big news, did Sports Center make a big deal of it?

The date which he came out through the NY Times article, Monday, May 16, it was on A-1.

ESPN reported it promptly and conducted several interviews with him includinga TV interview with Jeremy Schaap and a 30 minute podcast with Bill Simmons. The Simmons podcast was placed on iTunes that Monday. He also did an interview with Time Magazine which you can see online. Read the Times article for further perspective.

[charger77]

Wow, that wasn't even on my radar, and I get Sports Illustrated.

Interesting follow up question: Who can have the bigger impact, the openly gay athlete or the openly gay GM (boss)?

Turns out he was the creator of the All Star Weekend concept and marketed the Dream Team.

Why is he not a part of main stream awareness campaigns? (once again for all I know he could be) Does he just choose not to draw attention to it?

[infrared41]

I listened to the Simmons podcast with Rick Welts. It was very well done. If anyone is interested, you can probably still find it on Grantland or iTunes.

[infrared41]

...follow up question: Who can have the bigger impact, the openly gay athlete or the openly gay GM (boss)?

If you mean from a cultural standpoint, it's definitely the player. A GM isn't in the spotlight like a player is. The fact that you weren't even aware of Rick Welts illustrates that. I think if it had been an NBA player coming out, even non-NBA fans would know about it. Hell, everyone would probably know about a player simply because the coverage would be so much bigger.

[charger77]

...follow up question: Who can have the bigger impact, the openly gay athlete or the openly gay GM (boss)?

If you mean from a cultural standpoint, it's definitely the player. A GM isn't in the spotlight like a player is.

In my head I was making a case for both.

If the player is a star talent wise its win-win. If he is a garden variety no-name player it could be a case of "who cares, he sucks".

If he is the GM, many younger people couldn't care less, but also one could say he runs the team he is the boss.

______________________________________

Welts has a pretty impressive resume. He should be somebody that all people know about because he excells in a field that has not always been known as gay friendly.

[infrared41]

...follow up question: Who can have the bigger impact, the openly gay athlete or the openly gay GM (boss)?

If you mean from a cultural standpoint, it's definitely the player. A GM isn't in the spotlight like a player is.

In my head I was making a case for both.

If the player is a star talent wise its win-win. If he is a garden variety no-name player it could be a case of "who cares, he sucks".

If he is the GM, many younger people couldn't care less, but also one could say he runs the team he is the boss.

Any player who comes out of the closet while he's still playing is going to be a big deal. It's not going to be a case of "who cares, he sucks" because of the nature of the story. There was a former NBA player a few years back who came out after he left the league. He certainly fell into the "who cares, he sucks" category but he still got a lot of coverage for it. I think his last name was Ameche or something like that. We've already seen that someone in the front office isn't going to generate much discussion. Rick Welts is part of the front office of an NBA team yet you, and I'm sure many more people who don't follow the NBA, had no idea it even happened.

[charger77]

...follow up question: Who can have the bigger impact, the openly gay athlete or the openly gay GM (boss)?

If you mean from a cultural standpoint, it's definitely the player. A GM isn't in the spotlight like a player is.

In my head I was making a case for both.

If the player is a star talent wise its win-win. If he is a garden variety no-name player it could be a case of "who cares, he sucks".

If he is the GM, many younger people couldn't care less, but also one could say he runs the team he is the boss.

Any player who comes out of the closet while he's still playing is going to be a big deal. It's not going to be a case of "who cares, he sucks" because of the nature of the story. There was a former NBA player a few years back who came out after he left the league. He certainly fell into the "who cares, he sucks" category but he still got a lot of coverage for it. I think his last name was Ameche or something like that. We've already seen that someone in the front office isn't going to generate much discussion. Rick Welts is part of the front office of an NBA team and you, and I'm sure many more people who don't follow the NBA, had no idea it even happened.

I guess you proved my the point for me there that the GM would have the lesser impact.

I dont know how to put this to I'll use this example.

The Toronto Maple Leafs are my favorite sports team, I could not care less if Phil Kessel or Dion Phaneuf came out as gay. However if some no-name jobber on the Leafs came out as gay, was a -15 and lead the league in turn overs, after the 10th or 11th personal interest story that came out I'd be thinking gay or straight, I don't care send him to the Marlies!

Edit: It was brought to my attention that I mistakenly wrote "my point" instead of "the point" I have corrected it and hopefully this will prevent any further confusion.

[See Red]

...follow up question: Who can have the bigger impact, the openly gay athlete or the openly gay GM (boss)?

If you mean from a cultural standpoint, it's definitely the player. A GM isn't in the spotlight like a player is.

In my head I was making a case for both.

If the player is a star talent wise its win-win. If he is a garden variety no-name player it could be a case of "who cares, he sucks".

If he is the GM, many younger people couldn't care less, but also one could say he runs the team he is the boss.

Any player who comes out of the closet while he's still playing is going to be a big deal. It's not going to be a case of "who cares, he sucks" because of the nature of the story. There was a former NBA player a few years back who came out after he left the league. He certainly fell into the "who cares, he sucks" category but he still got a lot of coverage for it. I think his last name was Ameche or something like that. We've already seen that someone in the front office isn't going to generate much discussion. Rick Welts is part of the front office of an NBA team yet you, and I'm sure many more people who don't follow the NBA, had no idea it even happened.

Yes, that was John Amaechi. His coming out was met with a mixed reaction from players -- he got support from guys such as Grant Hill and Charles Barkley, but if you'll remember, Tim Hardaway had some very hateful remarks at the time.

[dfwabel]

For a few days. I don't follow the NBA any more, and I read about it in the Times.

We had a good thread about it that got sidetracked to the Graveyard by some unfortunate gay-baiting.

Outside the Lines: First Report (their half hour daily show) basically spent the week on the subject talking to athletes and sportswriters who came out after their playing careers and the impact of Welts' announcement.

Wow, that wasn't even on my radar, and I get Sports Illustrated.

Interesting follow up question: Who can have the bigger impact, the openly gay athlete or the openly gay GM (boss)?

Turns out he was the creator of the All Star Weekend concept and marketed the Dream Team.

Why is he not a part of main stream awareness campaigns? (once again for all I know he could be) Does he just choose not to draw attention to it?

SI was already in print when his story was first published. The issue the next week had him in it, but Time did the more with the story.

When he left NBA corporate in 1999, he was the #3 person. If he would have stayed, he possibly could be the next commissioner.

As for why not a part of mainstream awareness, what he does is his decision. It is personal and not for us to judge.