Notre Dame Cover Up?

[Cola]

Very interesting article and even more interesting that I haven't seen even the slightest hint or mention of this on any other major news outlet.

Obviously, some things mentioned in the article will never be 100% proved as fact and maybe the truth lies somewhere in the middle, but I just can't believe this news has escaped me (and apparently a lot of others I have shared this with). Forgive me if already posted here or discussed in another thread.

Why I Won't Be Cheering For Notre Dame

[CS85]

I vaguely recall it being mentioned somewhere, but I'm of the opinion that crap like this happens on every single major football factory college campus, and some schools are more successful at covering it up than others. This article's basically a smear against ND since they're topical, but this is in no way exclusive. There are fewer entities more shady and disgusting than the men behind the curtain of college sports.

[rams80]

Remember this article tonight when we are praising Te'o's "moral character." He has to know or at least suspect which of his teammates are the guilty parties.

[pmoehrin]

I vaguely recall it being mentioned somewhere, but I'm of the opinion that crap like this happens on every single major football factory college campus, and some schools are more successful at covering it up than others. This article's basically a smear against ND since they're topical, but this is in no way exclusive. There are fewer entities more shady and disgusting than the men behind the curtain of college sports.

I'm pretty much in the same boat. If someone has that big of an issue with it, then my advice would be to stop following division 1 college football.

I don't even know what the argument is. I'm not rooting for Notre Dame because they potentially covered up a crime that one of their players committed, but Alabama is this righteous institution that would never stoop to such a level just to win a football game? Give me a break. I'm not saying Alabama is any better or worse, but don't tell me that Notre Dame is the only school that would ever do something like this if in fact they did.

[Cola]

I think the article pretty much agrees that things happen on college campuses related to the athletic program that are softened or swept away by the powers that be. However, a life was lost during this case as there was no outlet for her to come forward. I'm no psychologist, but I believe it is difficult for rape victims to come to terms with what happened and actually come forward to the police from their own personal issues; when you have another player on the team basically warn you that your life and future is endanger for coming forward- then that says a lot.

At any rate, I am mostly shocked that I hadn't read about this before today.

[GFB]

This article's basically a smear against ND since they're topical, but this is in no way exclusive.

A smear written as an editorial by a former alumni of the university? Yeah, not exactly someone I would describe has having an agenda (unless you view speaking out against sexual crimes as an agenda).

I will say that I've seen "reports" of that sexual assault she is mostly addressing that make the term "sexual assault" a little exaggerated in this case... Nevertheless, it's no matter to be brushed aside lightly and the Notre Dame football program has now had a hand in the death of two students in the last three years as well as an alleged rape that went unfiled. If you are aware of any other universities that have that rap sheet in the last three years, I'd love to know.

What is being left out in this discussion is that Brian Kelly has had these same problems follow him from Central Michigan to Cincinnati to now ND...

But ND will continue to hide behind their fake moral standards and superiority and continue to pretend that they're any different than the Miami's they used to ridicule.

[CS85]

Okay, so this is now going to unwravel into an "I hate Notre Dame" thread. Cool.

[oddball]

What exactly was the real point behind this article and for that fact, this thread? That Notre Dame is normal and that people at Notre Dame, like a lot of schools and a lot of business make mistakes and sometimes the news isn't reported as much as Tim Tebow taking a leak? Okay, I get the fact that there may have been a sexual assault, but remember we don't know didly friggin' squat about the case, so we in no way should pass judgement. Have you heard of the story of Brian Banks who was falsely accused of raping someone and spent 10 years in jail only to be proven innocent this year? Look, leave the investigation to the authorities and if there was an assault, then you can pass judgement. If you're going to suspend someone for something you think they did, no one would be doing anything. If you're going to stop rooting or dislike a team for what might have happened, then what do you say about Kansas City Chief fans? Should there be none? This is all hearsay and at this point is not factual, so to me at this point it's a non-story. Now if it's true, does it make Notre Dame bad or hypocritical? It depends. If it's true and the school does nothing, then that lowers my opinion of the school; if it's true and they suspend or kick the players out, then they did what they should. At this point in time, Notre Dame is doing what it should do, let the investigation continue. What would people say about Notre Dame if the allegations were false and the suspend or kick players off a team falsely? That's wrong, but no one would rip the school for that. Let the process work itself out before passing judgement.

[thespleenenator]

As disgusting as this is, I'm not even surprised anymore. Same stuff that happens at plenty of colleges across the country. What ND did was horrible, but let's not kid ourselves by saying that Alabama is the more righteous team.

[Lights Out]

What ND did was horrible, but let's not kid ourselves by saying that Alabama is the more righteous team.

AT LEAST WE DIDN'T RAPE NOBODY OR SELL NO TATTOOS PAWWWWLLLLLLL

[rams80]

As disgusting as this is, I'm not even surprised anymore. Same stuff that happens at plenty of colleges across the country. What ND did was horrible, but let's not kid ourselves by saying that Alabama is the more righteous team.

Brian Kelly also sent a T.A. up in a cherrypicker in a windstorm just to watch him die.

[CS85]

As disgusting as this is, I'm not even surprised anymore. Same stuff that happens at plenty of colleges across the country. What ND did was horrible, but let's not kid ourselves by saying that Alabama is the more righteous team.

Brian Kelly also sent a T.A. up in a cherrypicker in a windstorm just to watch him die.

Johnny Cash shot a man in Reno for similar reasons.

-------

So we've gone from "Notre Dame indirectly approves of player's raping girls and blackmailing them until they commit suicide" to "Their coach wants to watch kids get killed."

This could just as easily have been called the "I Hate Notre Dame, and Here's Some Pot-Stirring Article That Tells The Kind of Story I Like To Hear About Them" thread.

[Cola]

I didn't start this thread to elicit extreme hate for Notre Dame. I posted it because I thought it was an article that had pretty serious allegations and results that apparently hasn't leaked into mainstream media for whatever reason.

[CS85]

I didn't start this thread to elicit extreme hate for Notre Dame. I posted it because I thought it was an article that had pretty serious allegations and results that apparently hasn't leaked into mainstream media for whatever reason.

So basically here's what the article is implying:

Lizzie Seeberg, a girl who was allegedly sexually assaulted in 2010 by a ND football player, killed herself. The player in question wasn't interviewed until several days after her death, and it was done by an in-house disciplinary hearing which found the player not accountable for his actions.

The whole thing was swept under the rug amid a turmoil of cryptic "Big Brother" warnings, and there's multiple allegations of Notre Dame employing special protections for it's athletes to shield them from police and themselves from bad publicity.

Tacking on the student who died while filming the practice is merely rams80 stirring the pot, so I'll leave that alone. That's his prerogative, but to solely blame Kelly is pretty shortsighted.

----

Penn State virtually catered Sandusky's child rape career. Bobby Petrino was banging a student for months before a motorcycle accident screwed him over. Miami had a guy giving players hookers, cash, etc., and you can't tell me nobody knew that was going on. Jim Tressel knew about his players selling merch. Reggie Bush got all kinds of goodies from USC. Baylor's coach instructed his players to lie about an player-on-player murder. Jim Harrick and his kid hooked up Georgia players with cash and good grades.

College football has a rich tradition of shadowy scandals, and we only see the tip of the iceberg on these when somebody screws up and the press gets hold of it. From point shaving to the Fab Five to SMU, it's a staple of college sports - the entire entity is a money-bloated black market of scheming criminals who grossly profit by abusing indentured servants, all under the guise of Integrity, Education, and Academic Excellence.

These two dated Notre Dame scandals are hardly a drop in the ocean of shame that permeates the NCAA, but because of their religious affiliation, recent success, and nationwide disdain, they make for a much easier target.

[GFB]

As disgusting as this is, I'm not even surprised anymore. Same stuff that happens at plenty of colleges across the country. What ND did was horrible, but let's not kid ourselves by saying that Alabama is the more righteous team.

Brian Kelly also sent a T.A. up in a cherrypicker in a windstorm just to watch him die.

Johnny Cash shot a man in Reno for similar reasons.

-------

So we've gone from "Notre Dame indirectly approves of player's raping girls and blackmailing them until they commit suicide" to "Their coach wants to watch kids get killed."

This could just as easily have been called the "I Hate Notre Dame, and Here's Some Pot-Stirring Article That Tells The Kind of Story I Like To Hear About Them" thread.

Oh, please. All these "arguments" that "It happens at other schools more than you think" or "Alabama must be saints by comparison" or "Notre Dame's finally good again and you're all HATERZZZ!" are pathetic attempts at veiling the reality of the situation. Are any of these top flight programs squeaky clean? No, but I don't believe anyone is that naive and any top program will have a kid do something stupid every now and then. However, on the sliding scale of morality in college athletics, there's a difference between cutting players to open up scholarship; paying players with tattoos, cash, cars, etc...; even having a kid commit a petty crime like stealing a laptop or something; these are college kids and even if you're running a program with the best intentions, a few will always find trouble because college kids do stupid things. However, when you start getting into the area of sexual assaults, alleged rapes, and involuntary manslaughter... the lives of other people are being seriously affected or taken. So no, it's more than that. And the intention of the article is not that those things happened, but rather that the investigations into these events was mishandled by the university and that the players involved in these events were not disciplined and/or even acknowledged.

[Gothamite]

I'm with GFB. If true, this goes beyond the "all schools do it" scandals. We'll see

[rams80]

Yeah, even with the tarnished dome, nobody died under Lou Holtz's watch.

[dfwabel]

I didn't start this thread to elicit extreme hate for Notre Dame. I posted it because I thought it was an article that had pretty serious allegations and results that apparently hasn't leaked into mainstream media for whatever reason.

It does occur more than you think, athletics or otherwise. It just took you until the WaPo story to actually read about the Notre Dame situation. In the Penn State/Sandusky thread, 'rams80' and I repeatedly brought up the issues at the University of Montana and in Bozeman, MT in general.

CAse in Point: While the victim did not commit suicide, five years after three TCU athletes (2 FB, 1BB) were charged with sexual assault, the TCU settled with the family before the case went to trial. The plaintiff claimed that the student-athletes entered the university with criminal histories and remained with their respective programs even when their academic work and conduct were called into question.

BTW, the players were expelled but the criminal charges on the players were dropped without comment from the DA.

[KCScout76]

Unfortunately this happens on many campus, it's sad that it comes up as ND gets ready to play for the championship of college football.

I would never defend the actions of any student/athlete who would do this, a 19 year young lady is now dead and a young life is wasted.

Whether the attend ND or any university or college, it's too common that these people get off w/o being prosecuted. The ugly side of

college football on their mission to get money.

[CS85]

So what is the ultimate outcome supposed to be here? We've established that my "THIS is a microcosm of college sports" argument is apparently not satisfying enough, and that rams80 is going to ride the "Brian Kelly is a Murderer" train to the bitter end. The only thing I've read from any of you is that this poor girl's rape/death needs to be properly avenged (which is true and right), since blaming the gross underbelly of NCAA football is not an acceptable response.

The vibe I get is that Notre Dame should forfeit/lose the title game because it's not right that an alleged rapist wins a championship with the university that swept his crime under the rug, yes? If that's what you're all implying, then that's pretty sad. That's not justice, that's spite. The re-emergence of this case is going to require more than just one reporter begging the question.