Mizzou's Michael Sam comes out

[HedleyLamarr]

See, this is where I think you're taking a little too much offense to what he said.

Dungy isn't wrong in saying it'll be a distraction in the sense of the media will be focusing more on Sam that they normally would a late 7th-rounder. Dungy knows that the head coach and the GM, and even some of the players, will be fielding questions nearly daily about how Sam's progressing in camp. Dungy knows that ESPN, Fox Sports, and even the main national news channels (NBC, CBS, CNN, etc.) will be focusing on Sam during camp and during preseason games, These news channels will bring in a "football expert" to give insight on how Sam's doing. Dungy knows the coaching staff and front office will be fielding questions about Sam after every game, and most of those questions will start becoming the likes of "Do you think Sam will make the team?", and there are a couple of certain networks that will put the pressure on the Rams and Jeff Fisher about Sam getting on the 53-man roster, and will probably even have reader/viewer polls and on-air debates about "Should Sam be on the Rams?". And Dungy wouldn't want to be put in the position of "Why did you cut Sam?"....as we see in all walks of life, some folks just won't accept any sort of explanation that's given to them, no matter how intelligent or lucid the explanation is, because the questioner will be offended and will try to make a spectacle of it.

Hell, the Rams had an introductory press conference for Sam. That's something that 7th-round draft picks normally don't have.

In terms of getting the team prepared for the season and all that goes into that, I can certainly see why Dungy thinks it will be a distraction. And remember, we're not even a year removed from that locker room distraction that was caused by Incognito in Miami. I do believe most don't care about Sam's sexual orientation, but you will have one or two "loose cannons" and hot-heads in the Rams locker room that may make some comments when times get heated during training camp and the preseason, especially when jobs are on the line (whether they're battling Sam for a position or not). It happens every year....in-team fighting during training camp.

I'll ask you a question, Ice_cap: Will there be any sort of distraction to the Rams players, coaches, and/or front office about Sam being in camp in the next month? I'm not asking "Should there be....?", because most of us agree that it shouldn't be a distraction. Knowing where we are as a society today, in July/August 2014....will an openly gay football player participating in an NFL team's training camp be a distraction to the team (in all aspects, not just on the field or even in the locker room)?

[hailstateunis]

Ice Cap, where did I ever say gay players should be 'barred from the game? My argument is very simple; Not wanting to deal with distractions that come with a 7th round defensive end is not bigoted or homophobic.

[hailstateunis]

Dungy spells it out for the people who tried to get offended by this-http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/07/tony-dungy-michael-sam-statement

Here's where I take issue with his comments.

He championed Michael Vick's cause and tried to convince multiple teams to sign Vick when he was released from prison. He tried to convince those teams to put up with Michael Vick despite the media attention that would come with signing a convicted felon. So in Tony Dungy's world it's worth it to put up with the media distractions that come with signing a convicted felon, but it's not worth it to put up with the media distractions that come with signing a openly gay man. If you need to know what's wrong about the NFL's culture and priorities then look no further.

And again, the same "it's a distraction" argument was used by bigots when the top-flight pro leagues were desegregating. The argument was why sign a black athlete? It'll bring unwanted media attention and it may disrupt the locker room. The very same arguments being used against openly gay or bi players today. You'd think Tony Dungy would be aware of those similarities. Apparently not.

It's generally worth it if you get a high-caliber QB out of it. But a 7th round defensive end? Probably not worth it.

Hopefully one day, being gay in the NFL won't be a distraction. But as for right one, it is one that might be detrimental to a team.

So a gay player is only worth the media distraction and locker room issues if he's a high caliber player? Do you not see how bigoted of a statement/stance that is?

"Hell yes! We'll let Jackie Robinson play on our team! He's a great baseball player & we're for equality! We don't mind so the media attention or risks of locker room problems from having a negro on our team."

"Nope. Sorry. We're all for equality but LeRoy is a below average player and just not worth the distractions. He's not worth all the media attention and potential locker room issues that will arise from having a negro player on our team. We don't want to deal with all of that."

If a player is below average AND comes with extra distractions, then no, I would not sign him. If I though he could help the team despite the distractions, then I would sign him.

[IceCap]

I'll ask you a question, Ice_cap:

Oh, well thank you for addressing me personally.

Will there be any sort of distraction to the Rams players, coaches, and/or front office about Sam being in camp in the next month? I'm not asking "Should there be....?", because most of us agree that it shouldn't be a distraction. Knowing where we are as a society today, in July/August 2014....will an openly gay football player participating in an NFL team's training camp be a distraction to the team (in all aspects, not just on the field or even in the locker room)?

Yes, and I don't think I or anyone else ever said there wouldn't be distractions.

What I'm saying is that it's hypocritical for Dungy of all people to play the "distraction" card when he went on and on about how teams should give Michael Vick a second chance, distractions be damned. Distractions regarding Michael Sam though? Enough of a reason to not want to deal with him.

And there is, of course, the fact that the same "will bring unwanted distractions"/"will disrupt the locker room" excuses were used to bar black athletes from the top-flight leagues for decades.

So yes, there will be distractions that come with Michael Sam. I've never said otherwise. The point is that an uptight coach's right to exclude players based on sexual preference does not supersede the rights of players to play regardless of sexual preference. Yes, there will be distractions. Just like there were distractions when Robinson broke the colour barrier. That had to happen before race became a non-factor. Just like everything that has happened, and will happen, with Michael Sam has to happen so we can get to the point where being openly gay isn't a big deal. If that means the holy sanctuary that is a professional locker room ( ) gets "disrupted" once every few decades? So be it.

Ice Cap, where did I ever say gay players should be 'barred from the game? My argument is very simple; Not wanting to deal with distractions that come with a 7th round defensive end is not bigoted or homophobic.

I didn't say you wanted gay players bared from the game. I said your point here isn't clear because you're making excuses for people who do want to bar gay players from the game while also wishing that sexual orientation doesn't matter. The point is that if you keep saying bigots are justified in their bigotry because of their "we don't want distractions" excuse then you'll never get to the point where sexual orientation won't matter. Someone will have to sign an openly gay player distractions be damned so that we can get to that point where sexual orientation is a non-factor.

[Ateles fusciceps]

See, this is where I think you're taking a little too much offense to what he said.

Dungy isn't wrong in saying it'll be a distraction in the sense of the media will be focusing more on Sam that they normally would a late 7th-rounder. Dungy knows that the head coach and the GM, and even some of the players, will be fielding questions nearly daily about how Sam's progressing in camp. Dungy knows that ESPN, Fox Sports, and even the main national news channels (NBC, CBS, CNN, etc.) will be focusing on Sam during camp and during preseason games, These news channels will bring in a "football expert" to give insight on how Sam's doing. Dungy knows the coaching staff and front office will be fielding questions about Sam after every game, and most of those questions will start becoming the likes of "Do you think Sam will make the team?", and there are a couple of certain networks that will put the pressure on the Rams and Jeff Fisher about Sam getting on the 53-man roster, and will probably even have reader/viewer polls and on-air debates about "Should Sam be on the Rams?". And Dungy wouldn't want to be put in the position of "Why did you cut Sam?"....as we see in all walks of life, some folks just won't accept any sort of explanation that's given to them, no matter how intelligent or lucid the explanation is, because the questioner will be offended and will try to make a spectacle of it.

Hell, the Rams had an introductory press conference for Sam. That's something that 7th-round draft picks normally don't have.

In terms of getting the team prepared for the season and all that goes into that, I can certainly see why Dungy thinks it will be a distraction. And remember, we're not even a year removed from that locker room distraction that was caused by Incognito in Miami. I do believe most don't care about Sam's sexual orientation, but you will have one or two "loose cannons" and hot-heads in the Rams locker room that may make some comments when times get heated during training camp and the preseason, especially when jobs are on the line (whether they're battling Sam for a position or not). It happens every year....in-team fighting during training camp.

I'll ask you a question, Ice_cap: Will there be any sort of distraction to the Rams players, coaches, and/or front office about Sam being in camp in the next month? I'm not asking "Should there be....?", because most of us agree that it shouldn't be a distraction. Knowing where we are as a society today, in July/August 2014....will an openly gay football player participating in an NFL team's training camp be a distraction to the team (in all aspects, not just on the field or even in the locker room)?

It's a problem because of Tony Dungy's stance on other polarizing players.

Dungy went on a personal crusade around the country for months begging teams to sign Mike Vick. He came with much more of a distraction, and extremely negative, as he was a felon convicted of torturing, mutilating, & killing puppies & dogs. And Vick is not a great player, & certainly not worth the distraction. Exciting player? Definitely. But he's always been average at best as a QB.

Dungy also openly supported Tim Tebow. He was very candid is stating that teams should give Tim a chance because he was a great guy & all this other stuff. Tim refused to play anything other than QB, & he was a terrible pro QB prospect. He also came with an enormous media distraction.

Dungy was very open publicly about supporting other average players who came with attention. But now all of the sudden Sam isn't worth the distraction? It's all about Dungy's religious beliefs. Stop trying to lie to yourself & say it isn't.

[waltere]

Worth remembering that by all accounts Sam came out to his Missouri teammates last summer before the start of the season, and it seemed to do that team no harm at all. Maybe I'm expecting too much but I honestly think the 'problem' won't be with the players, outside of the odd meatball like Chris Culliver or Richie Incognito it seems like whether or not you can come through and deliver trumps most other things.

The 'problem' as far as most coaches will probably come from the media, as Hedley said it's not just sports media but the mainstream media as well all so focused on a 7th round draft pick who's probably not even a guarantee to make the team out of camp. I can see why having to deal with all the questions about, and hullabaloo surrounding, that would be something a coach didn't want to deal with

As for how we get to the point where this is a non-issue; I don't think it comes from forcing guys who don't want to deal with the distractions do so, instead let the banner pass to guys like Jeff Fisher who are willing to take it on. Every gay player from here on is less of a news story and less of a 'distraction', then we'll know who the homophobic coaches really are.

[Ateles fusciceps]

Mike Vick-

Average college/pro QB, although one of the most exciting players of his generation. Low character and locker room cancer. Felon convicted of torturing, mutilating, & murdering dogs/puppies. Brings distractions, a large media following, and a highly negative perception nationally.

"Give him a chance!"

-Tony Dungy, anti-gay marriage Christian

Tim Tebow-

All-time great college player. Terrible pro QB prospect who refused to play any other position. High character and great locker room guy. Outspoken Christian who comes with lots of distractions, media attention, and a cult-like following.

"Give him a chance!"

-Tony Dungy, anti-gay marriage Christian

Michael Sam-

Great college player. Below average pro prospect who may bring value as backup & special teams player. High character & great locker room guy. Openly gay man who will bring distractions and large media following.

"Nope! Too much of a distraction!"

-Tony Dungy, anti-gay marriage Christian

[HedleyLamarr]

It's a bit of a stretch to compare the politics and game-changing of society in sports between an openly gay athlete and one that's fresh out of prison.

It's a huge deal that we just might get to witness the first openly gay athlete get to play in a Big Four sport, and the biggest of them all. Something we've never had. It's something that will probably be the biggest moment towards the LGBT community no longer being outliers in America.

Some athlete that ran afoul with the law? (Granted, not to the degree that Vick went through.) We see that how often in sports today?

Also, let's think of the context....someone asked Dungy this question in a hypothetical situation, as if Dungy were a coach or a GM. As far as I know, no one asked Dungy this same hypothetical when Vick was trying to get back in the NFL. For all we know, Dungy just might say the same thing if he were asked about having Vick on his team fresh out of prison. It's a bit different to be asked a hypothetical (as in the Sam question) versus being asked to mentor a guy and help him get back on his feet.

I'm all for Sam making the Rams (or any team), and hope that no matter what happens with Sam, that the LGBT community becomes more and more accepted in every walk of life....sports, marriage, anything.

[charger77]

NM

[IceCap]

It's a bit of a stretch to compare the politics and game-changing of society in sports between an openly gay athlete and one that's fresh out of prison.

It's a huge deal that we just might get to witness the first openly gay athlete get to play in a Big Four sport, and the biggest of them all. Something we've never had. It's something that will probably be the biggest moment towards the LGBT community no longer being outliers in America.

Some athlete that ran afoul with the law? (Granted, not to the degree that Vick went through.) We see that how often in sports today?

Also, let's think of the context....someone asked Dungy this question in a hypothetical situation, as if Dungy were a coach or a GM. As far as I know, no one asked Dungy this same hypothetical when Vick was trying to get back in the NFL. For all we know, Dungy just might say the same thing if he were asked about having Vick on his team fresh out of prison. It's a bit different to be asked a hypothetical (as in the Sam question) versus being asked to mentor a guy and help him get back on his feet.

I'm all for Sam making the Rams (or any team), and hope that no matter what happens with Sam, that the LGBT community becomes more and more accepted in every walk of life....sports, marriage, anything.

I can agree with all of this.

My point is that, at the end of the day, the distractions that will inevitably come with this are, weirdly, necessary so that sexual orientation will become a non-factor. Like what happened with race.

[Ateles fusciceps]

Didn't Dungy say he wouldn't have drafted Sam because of it basically being a media circus? Did he cite religious reasons as well?

Tony Dungy is an outspoken Christian who is against gay marriage.

Tony Dungy abandoned his son and wouldn't have anything to do with him because he was a homosexual.

Tony Dungy won an award in 2007 after speaking out against gay marriage.

Tony Dungy went on a public crusade begging teams to sign an old, average QB who was a convicted felon & brought an enormous amount of distractions.

Tony Dungy was very outspoken about saying Tim Tebow deserved a fair chance, even though he was a project & came with a lot of attention & distractions.

Tony Dungy says he wouldn't want Michael Sam on his team.

Does he really need to say it's because of religious reasons? I think it's fairly obvious.

[wonderbread]

mike vick: 1st round draft pick, multiple running and passing records, multiple pro bowls, proven NFL talent

Tim Tebow: First round draft pick, heisman winner, 2x national champ,

Micheal Sam: co SEC defensive player of the year, performed horribly at the combine, ended up being a late 7th round draft pick.

If you take all the media distraction stuff away if you are to sign 2 of these players which is the odd man out.

[Ateles fusciceps]

mike vick: 1st round draft pick, multiple running and passing records, multiple pro bowls, proven NFL talent

Tim Tebow: First round draft pick, heisman winner, 2x national champ,

Micheal Sam: co SEC defensive player of the year, performed horribly at the combine, ended up being a late 7th round draft pick.

If you take all the media distraction stuff away if you are to sign 2 of these players which is the odd man out.

Being a 1st Rd pick doesn't mean anything. Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell, etc were 1st Rd picks. All that means is some incompetent team wasted a pick.

Tim Tebow refused to change positions and he was one of the worst QBs in the league.

Mike Vick is a locker room cancer with a crappy attitude. He's also a below average QB. Yeah, he can run & he's incredibly popular & exciting but he's played over a decade & he still can't throw the ball & he gets injured every year.

Michael Sam is a great leader & has value as a backup & special teams player.

[wonderbread]

how was mike vick a locker room cancer? he caused no contoversies with his teammates, he had a very good first year as a starter after coming back and then his style of play caught up with him and he got a turn over problem which cost him his starting position, but he was never a cancer and still supported nick foles through out everything and now supports geno.

Tim Tebow is a great leader and had value as a back up, special teamer, TE, or FB but wanted to be QB and it wasn't worth the media attention, even though as a started he did lead a team to the playoffs and won a playoff game

For micheal sam it is still yet to be seen how he will pan out, but right now he is a tweener backup who will be used as a special teamer and will have a lot of media attention, and only imagine how much there will be if he gets cut.

[DS729]

mike vick: 1st round draft pick, multiple running and passing records, multiple pro bowls, proven NFL talent

Tim Tebow: First round draft pick, heisman winner, 2x national champ,

Micheal Sam: co SEC defensive player of the year, performed horribly at the combine, ended up being a late 7th round draft pick.

If you take all the media distraction stuff away if you are to sign 2 of these players which is the odd man out.

Being a 1st Rd pick doesn't mean anything. Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell, etc were 1st Rd picks. All that means is some incompetent team wasted a pick.

Tim Tebow refused to change positions and he was one of the worst QBs in the league.

Mike Vick is a locker room cancer with a crappy attitude. He's also a below average QB. Yeah, he can run & he's incredibly popular & exciting but he's played over a decade & he still can't throw the ball & he gets injured every year.

Michael Sam is a great leader & has value as a backup & special teams player.

Vick wasn't considered that much of a "cancer" until he came back from prison.

[rams80]

Its not some much the fans as it is the media. When ESPN talks about the Rams, what are they talking about? When non-sports media talks about the NFL draft and off season, what are they talking about?

At least its not the Greatest Show on Turf or how awful the team is or hiweneedtotalkaboutall32nflteamssoweretalkingabouttheramsfor10secondsandoopstimesup and here's a feature on what LeBron's move to Cleveland means for your cat.

[rams80]

mike vick: 1st round draft pick, multiple running and passing records, multiple pro bowls, proven NFL talent

Tim Tebow: First round draft pick, heisman winner, 2x national champ,

Micheal Sam: co SEC defensive player of the year, performed horribly at the combine, ended up being a late 7th round draft pick.

If you take all the media distraction stuff away if you are to sign 2 of these players which is the odd man out.

Being a 1st Rd pick doesn't mean anything. Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell, etc were 1st Rd picks. All that means is some incompetent team wasted a pick.

Tim Tebow refused to change positions and he was one of the worst QBs in the league.

Mike Vick is a locker room cancer with a crappy attitude. He's also a below average QB. Yeah, he can run & he's incredibly popular & exciting but he's played over a decade & he still can't throw the ball & he gets injured every year.

Michael Sam is a great leader & has value as a backup & special teams player.

Vick wasn't considered that much of a "cancer" until he came back from prison.

An oldie but a goodie to rebut:

[rams80]

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/07/tony-dungy-michael-sam-statement

I was not asked whether I would have a problem having Michael Sam on my team. I would not.

YOU JUST SAID YOU WOULDN'T DRAFT HIM YOU BIGOTED SCUMBAG! WHAT? IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "7TH ROUND COMPENSATORY PICK" CONTRACT AND "UNDRAFTED FREE AGENT" CONTRACT THAT SIGNIFICANT FOR YOU?! OR IS IT, "I WOULDN'T LET HIS PRESENCE DETER ME FROM SIGNING A CONTRACT TO COACH THE TEAM BECAUSE I WOULD CUT HIM "FOR FOOOTBALL REASONS" THE FIRST CHANCE I GOT?!"

[BBTV]

mike vick: 1st round draft pick, multiple running and passing records, multiple pro bowls, proven NFL talent

Tim Tebow: First round draft pick, heisman winner, 2x national champ,

Micheal Sam: co SEC defensive player of the year, performed horribly at the combine, ended up being a late 7th round draft pick.

If you take all the media distraction stuff away if you are to sign 2 of these players which is the odd man out.

Being a 1st Rd pick doesn't mean anything. Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell, etc were 1st Rd picks. All that means is some incompetent team wasted a pick.

Tim Tebow refused to change positions and he was one of the worst QBs in the league.

Mike Vick is a locker room cancer with a crappy attitude. He's also a below average QB. Yeah, he can run & he's incredibly popular & exciting but he's played over a decade & he still can't throw the ball & he gets injured every year.

Michael Sam is a great leader & has value as a backup & special teams player.

Michael Vick was anything BUT a locker room cancer in his eagles career. He was a leader and by ALL accounts a great and supportive teammate. He nearly single handedly kept the team together after the Riley Cooper incident (and saved Cooper's ass) and backed Nick Foles after Foles got the starting job. He even helped Foles prepare for games and coached him up even though it meant he'd be on the bench going in to free agency.

[Gothamite]

Hopefully one day, being gay in the NFL won't be a distraction. But as for right one, it is one that might be detrimental to a team.

So, how do we get to that time if we decide that it's never the right time to take the first steps?

Obviously someone had to sign or draft him. I'm glad the Rams did, but it's certaintly understandble to not want to be that someone.

No, it's not, actually. It's shameful.

Especially from Dungy, who has built a reputation on supposedly doing the right thing even when difficult. Especially from Dungy, who went to such lengths to give Michael Vick another chance regardless of the media circus and "distractions" that followed him. Dungy has revealed himself to be a hypocrite. What happened to his self-proclaimed moral authority?

It is never the wrong time to do the right thing. It is never okay to avoid doing it. I'm sure that George Preston Marshall liked to tell himself that he was just avoiding "distractions" with his all-white teams, too.