Mizzou's Michael Sam comes out

[Needschat]

Sorry to breach the Deadpin/social issues vortex admiral, but here's an example of how the NFL types aren't quite as accepting as you'd hope: http://deadspin.com/tony-dungy-says-he-wouldnt-want-to-deal-with-taking-m-1608350383

"I wouldn't have taken him,'' said former Bucs and Colts coach Tony Dungy, now an analyst for NBC. "Not because I don't believe Michael Sam should have a chance to play, but I wouldn't want to deal with all of it.

"It's not going to be totally smooth … things will happen.''

So it's okay for Michael Vick, a convicted criminal to have an NFL job, but not Michael Sam, whose only crimes are being open and honest?

[Ateles fusciceps]

Sorry to breach the Deadpin/social issues vortex admiral, but here's an example of how the NFL types aren't quite as accepting as you'd hope: http://deadspin.com/tony-dungy-says-he-wouldnt-want-to-deal-with-taking-m-1608350383

"I wouldn't have taken him,'' said former Bucs and Colts coach Tony Dungy, now an analyst for NBC. "Not because I don't believe Michael Sam should have a chance to play, but I wouldn't want to deal with all of it.

"It's not going to be totally smooth things will happen.''

So it's okay for Michael Vick, a convicted criminal to have an NFL job, but not Michael Sam, whose only crimes are being open and honest?

Dungy is just another religious man who hates gay people. The "distractions" remark is just a lame excuse.

He nearly signed Vick, so he would've had no problem with bringing in the media circus surrounding his thug ass. But signing a gay man? No, we just can't do that & have all those distractions.

Horse .

[Needschat]

Sorry to breach the Deadpin/social issues vortex admiral, but here's an example of how the NFL types aren't quite as accepting as you'd hope: http://deadspin.com/tony-dungy-says-he-wouldnt-want-to-deal-with-taking-m-1608350383

"I wouldn't have taken him,'' said former Bucs and Colts coach Tony Dungy, now an analyst for NBC. "Not because I don't believe Michael Sam should have a chance to play, but I wouldn't want to deal with all of it.

"It's not going to be totally smooth things will happen.''

So it's okay for Michael Vick, a convicted criminal to have an NFL job, but not Michael Sam, whose only crimes are being open and honest?

Dungy is just another religious man who hates gay people. The "distractions" remark is just a lame excuse.

He nearly signed Vick, so he would've had no problem with bringing in the media circus surrounding his thug ass. But signing a gay man? No, we just can't do that & have all those distractions.

Horse .

Unless his head was completely in the sand, he had at least one gay player during his tenor, one that teammates knew.

[The_Admiral]

He probably had a gay son

[Critical Thinker]

Dungy is just another religious man who hates gay people.

Have you ever met a religious person in your life? There's more to religion than the Westboro Baptist Church, you know.

[wonderbread]

Sorry to breach the Deadpin/social issues vortex admiral, but here's an example of how the NFL types aren't quite as accepting as you'd hope: http://deadspin.com/tony-dungy-says-he-wouldnt-want-to-deal-with-taking-m-1608350383

"I wouldn't have taken him,'' said former Bucs and Colts coach Tony Dungy, now an analyst for NBC. "Not because I don't believe Michael Sam should have a chance to play, but I wouldn't want to deal with all of it.

"It's not going to be totally smooth things will happen.''

So it's okay for Michael Vick, a convicted criminal to have an NFL job, but not Michael Sam, whose only crimes are being open and honest?

Dungy is just another religious man who hates gay people. The "distractions" remark is just a lame excuse.

He nearly signed Vick, so he would've had no problem with bringing in the media circus surrounding his thug ass. But signing a gay man? No, we just can't do that & have all those distractions.

Horse .

its kind of hard to sign someone when he was retired from coaching, I'm not going to say everything he's said is right but get your facts straight. also micheal vick was a proven talent in the NFL being one of the most physically gifted QB's there ever was, versus Michael Sam who was a low draft pic who would have had a media circus around him with a far less chance of being a successful NFL player, it's part of the reason Tim Tebow doesn't have a job in the NFL right now, there is too little talent there to afford keeping the circus around.

[IceCap]

Michael Sam was going to be drafted regardless. If anything coming out caused GMs to allow him to drop further than he should have because they didn't like the way he came out and seemed like an all about me guy.

You've yet to actually suggest a better way for him to have come out. All you've said is that you think that the way he did it was too self centred. Which is crap. He came out the way he did to tell his own story. So he could come out on his own terms rather then have it leaked.

You've yet to say why this is a problem, other then the fact that he came out at all. What would have made you happy, exactly?

I'm not going to say everything he's said is right but

You're going to try and justify them

micheal vick was a proven talent in the NFL being one of the most physically gifted QB's there ever was, versus Michael Sam who was a low draft pic who would have had a media circus around him with a far less chance of being a successful NFL player...

That excuse doesn't fly. Dungy's moralizing regarding Vick wasn't about his talent. It was about giving a guy a chance to play after he had payed his dues to society. A chance to play that Tony Dungy would deny to Michael Sam.

The message seems clear to me. Murder dogs? You deserve a second chance. You're gay? You don't even get one chance. We don't need you or the "distractions" you bring. The media circus a convicted criminal brings? Totally worth it to give said criminal a second chance.

[BBTV]

Sorry to breach the Deadpin/social issues vortex admiral, but here's an example of how the NFL types aren't quite as accepting as you'd hope: http://deadspin.com/tony-dungy-says-he-wouldnt-want-to-deal-with-taking-m-1608350383

"I wouldn't have taken him,'' said former Bucs and Colts coach Tony Dungy, now an analyst for NBC. "Not because I don't believe Michael Sam should have a chance to play, but I wouldn't want to deal with all of it.

"It's not going to be totally smooth things will happen.''

So it's okay for Michael Vick, a convicted criminal to have an NFL job, but not Michael Sam, whose only crimes are being open and honest?

Dungy is just another religious man who hates gay people. The "distractions" remark is just a lame excuse.

He nearly signed Vick, so he would've had no problem with bringing in the media circus surrounding his thug ass. But signing a gay man? No, we just can't do that & have all those distractions.

Horse .

its kind of hard to sign someone when he was retired from coaching, I'm not going to say everything he's said is right but get your facts straight. also micheal vick was a proven talent in the NFL being one of the most physically gifted QB's there ever was, versus Michael Sam who was a low draft pic who would have had a media circus around him with a far less chance of being a successful NFL player, it's part of the reason Tim Tebow doesn't have a job in the NFL right now, there is too little talent there to afford keeping the circus around.

Dungy was Vick's appointed "mentor" and supposedly worked hard and had a lot of meetings with teams trying to convince them to sign Vick. Dungy has been thought of as this fatherly "mentor" figure, and I don't get why, because he was just another coach. I'm not sure where "he nearly signed Vick" came from, but he certainly thought it was fine for other teams to endure the circus that came along with signing his "client".

Anyway, the Vick signing brought far more attention - and the majority negative - than a Sam signing would bring. Dungy is absolutely hiding behind his religous hatred, and, like others that do the same, needs to meet his good sooner rather than later so we can move forward as a country.

[monkeypower]

I think he somewhat wanted the attention but it just so happens that he was part of a hot button issue.

It's his final year of college and he's headed to the draft. Of course he wanted some attention to get his name out and because he has a troubled or different background, that's what the attention focused on.

Players that were raised in foster homes or came from difficult times or whatever, those stories would have come out and everybody wants a draft success story. Sam's background just happens to be that he's gay.

(Please note I'm not trying to compare the plight of gay children to foster children, etc. It was just an example)

[wonderbread]

Michael Sam was going to be drafted regardless. If anything coming out caused GMs to allow him to drop further than he should have because they didn't like the way he came out and seemed like an all about me guy.

You've yet to actually suggest a better way for him to have come out. All you've said is that you think that the way he did it was too self centred. Which is crap. He came out the way he did to tell his own story. So he could come out on his own terms rather then have it leaked.

You've yet to say why this is a problem, other then the fact that he came out at all. What would have made you happy, exactly?

I'm not going to say everything he's said is right but

You're going to try and justify them

micheal vick was a proven talent in the NFL being one of the most physically gifted QB's there ever was, versus Michael Sam who was a low draft pic who would have had a media circus around him with a far less chance of being a successful NFL player...

That excuse doesn't fly. Dungy's moralizing regarding Vick wasn't about his talent. It was about giving a guy a chance to play after he had payed his dues to society. A chance to play that Tony Dungy would deny to Michael Sam.

The message seems clear to me. Murder dogs? You deserve a second chance. You're gay? You don't even get one chance. We don't need you or the "distractions" you bring. The media circus a convicted criminal brings? Totally worth it to give said criminal a second chance.

now since some time has passed and the whole media circus blew over and the Oprah reality show got canned I can honestly say that the way he came out was as close to perfect as possible and it was the medias reaction that was the worst part. what I was talking about was the GMs passing on him because of "character issues" not my personal opinion about it.

[HedleyLamarr]

Granted, I think Dungy's quote is part due to his religious/political beliefs.

But also, looking at the off-the-field angle, Dungy's quote has to do with the media circus....and possible media pressure....into keeping Sam on the roster even if his preseason play doesn't warrant it. As we all know, Sam didn't do too well at the Combine and his draft stock fell. Now it's hard to argue with what he did on the field in college this past season, but it's not like the Combine is useless, either. He's slow and stiff, which doesn't translate well to the NFL. He doesn't look to be a 3-down player, nor do his measurables say "Special Teams Ace". If Sam shows that he can't get through the blocks and can't seal off the corners, Dungy wouldn't want to be in the spot of the local/national media pressuring him to keep Sam in leiu of a better player getting cut.

NFL coaching staffs have enough to worry about during training camp and preseason. Adding on all the extracurriculars of a player like Sam....who's no guarantee of making the team....with the media, etc. is something that Dungy doesn't want to deal with.

At least, that's what I took out of his quote.

[IceCap]

Michael Sam was going to be drafted regardless. If anything coming out caused GMs to allow him to drop further than he should have because they didn't like the way he came out and seemed like an all about me guy.

You've yet to actually suggest a better way for him to have come out. All you've said is that you think that the way he did it was too self centred. Which is crap. He came out the way he did to tell his own story. So he could come out on his own terms rather then have it leaked.

You've yet to say why this is a problem, other then the fact that he came out at all. What would have made you happy, exactly?

I'm not going to say everything he's said is right but

You're going to try and justify them

micheal vick was a proven talent in the NFL being one of the most physically gifted QB's there ever was, versus Michael Sam who was a low draft pic who would have had a media circus around him with a far less chance of being a successful NFL player...

That excuse doesn't fly. Dungy's moralizing regarding Vick wasn't about his talent. It was about giving a guy a chance to play after he had payed his dues to society. A chance to play that Tony Dungy would deny to Michael Sam.

The message seems clear to me. Murder dogs? You deserve a second chance. You're gay? You don't even get one chance. We don't need you or the "distractions" you bring. The media circus a convicted criminal brings? Totally worth it to give said criminal a second chance.

now since some time has passed and the whole media circus blew over and the Oprah reality show got canned I can honestly say that the way he came out was as close to perfect as possible and it was the medias reaction that was the worst part. what I was talking about was the GMs passing on him because of "character issues" not my personal opinion about it.

Gotcha.

The thing about this is, and this is something every LGBT individual struggling about coming out should come to terms with, that you cannot influence how others will react. You just can't. All you can do is be open and true to yourself and hope for the best.

So I don't see how Michael Sam should be judged for the media's reaction. He just admitted who he truly was. The "media circus" falls on the culture that makes a big deal about one's sexual orientation, not Michael Sam. Ideally it wouldn't be a big deal, but that's not where we are.

[DS729]

mod edit

[Cosmic]

I was with you right up until the last paragraph. Players picked to be drafted "anywhere from the 3rd to the 6th round" don't usually fall out of the draft entirely. Unless GMs have another reason for deciding they don't want him on their team.

Seantrell Henderson was projected as a 1-3 Rd pick & fell to the 7th Rd.

Greg Hardy was projected as the potential #1 overall pick heading into his Jr year & feel to the 6th Rd.

Obviously they fell for entirely different reasons, but it happens.

Seantrell Henderson was suspended three times for marijuana in college, left his own pro day early and failed the drug test at the combine.

Greg Hardy just recently had this exchange with the prosecutor at his trial for beating and threatening his girlfriend:

Prosecutor Jamie Adams: “You had alcohol.”

Hardy: “Champagne.”

Adams: “Is champagne alcohol?”

Hardy: “You tell me.”

Adams: “OK we’ll move on.”

Maybe there was something the scouts saw there back before the draft that didn't make them want to invest a 1st round pick.

And then there's a guy who's gay.

[monkeypower]

I'm going to post this again because I feel it's become relevant again here.

[Ateles fusciceps]

I was with you right up until the last paragraph. Players picked to be drafted "anywhere from the 3rd to the 6th round" don't usually fall out of the draft entirely. Unless GMs have another reason for deciding they don't want him on their team.

Seantrell Henderson was projected as a 1-3 Rd pick & fell to the 7th Rd.

Greg Hardy was projected as the potential #1 overall pick heading into his Jr year & feel to the 6th Rd.

Obviously they fell for entirely different reasons, but it happens.

Seantrell Henderson was suspended three times for marijuana in college, left his own pro day early and failed the drug test at the combine.

Greg Hardy just recently had this exchange with the prosecutor at his trial for beating and threatening his girlfriend:

Prosecutor Jamie Adams: You had alcohol.

Hardy: Champagne.

Adams: Is champagne alcohol?

Hardy: You tell me.

Adams: OK well move on.

Maybe there was something the scouts saw there back before the draft that didn't make them want to invest a 1st round pick.

And then there's a guy who's gay.

I went to school with Holder. She is a gold digging slore. She was :censored:face drunk & high on cocaine the night that incident occurred with Hardy. That crap is going to trial next spring, where a jury will dismiss all those charges. Of course the lesbian judge found him guilty.

Sorry to breach the Deadpin/social issues vortex admiral, but here's an example of how the NFL types aren't quite as accepting as you'd hope: http://deadspin.com/tony-dungy-says-he-wouldnt-want-to-deal-with-taking-m-1608350383

"I wouldn't have taken him,'' said former Bucs and Colts coach Tony Dungy, now an analyst for NBC. "Not because I don't believe Michael Sam should have a chance to play, but I wouldn't want to deal with all of it.

"It's not going to be totally smooth things will happen.''

So it's okay for Michael Vick, a convicted criminal to have an NFL job, but not Michael Sam, whose only crimes are being open and honest?

Dungy is just another religious man who hates gay people. The "distractions" remark is just a lame excuse.

He nearly signed Vick, so he would've had no problem with bringing in the media circus surrounding his thug ass. But signing a gay man? No, we just can't do that & have all those distractions.

Horse .

its kind of hard to sign someone when he was retired from coaching, I'm not going to say everything he's said is right but get your facts straight. also micheal vick was a proven talent in the NFL being one of the most physically gifted QB's there ever was, versus Michael Sam who was a low draft pic who would have had a media circus around him with a far less chance of being a successful NFL player, it's part of the reason Tim Tebow doesn't have a job in the NFL right now, there is too little talent there to afford keeping the circus around.

LoL @ saying Vick was this great QB

He was, is, & will always be hot garbage. He was never a good QB. Exciting runner? Sure, when he wasn't hurt. But he's never been a good QB.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Camps have started, right? How is Michael Sam doing?

[illwauk]

Dungy is just another religious man who hates gay people.

Have you ever met a religious person in your life? There's more to religion than the Westboro Baptist Church, you know.

I know several at these very boards who don't have such attitudes towards gay people. Does that mean there aren't enough religious people who do perpetuate and tolerate homophobia that it creates a very real problem in our society? Sadly, they do.

[wonderbread]

Greg Hardy was projected as the potential #1 overall pick heading into his Jr year & feel to the 6th Rd.

Obviously they fell for entirely different reasons, but it happens.

Seantrell Henderson was suspended three times for marijuana in college, left his own pro day early and failed the drug test at the combine.

Greg Hardy just recently had this exchange with the prosecutor at his trial for beating and threatening his girlfriend:

Prosecutor Jamie Adams: You had alcohol.

Hardy: Champagne.

Adams: Is champagne alcohol?

Hardy: You tell me.

Adams: OK well move on.

Maybe there was something the scouts saw there back before the draft that didn't make them want to invest a 1st round pick.

And then there's a guy who's gay.

I went to school with Holder. She is a gold digging slore. She was :censored:face drunk & high on cocaine the night that incident occurred with Hardy. That crap is going to trial next spring, where a jury will dismiss all those charges. Of course the lesbian judge found him guilty.

Sorry to breach the Deadpin/social issues vortex admiral, but here's an example of how the NFL types aren't quite as accepting as you'd hope: http://deadspin.com/tony-dungy-says-he-wouldnt-want-to-deal-with-taking-m-1608350383

"I wouldn't have taken him,'' said former Bucs and Colts coach Tony Dungy, now an analyst for NBC. "Not because I don't believe Michael Sam should have a chance to play, but I wouldn't want to deal with all of it.

"It's not going to be totally smooth things will happen.''

So it's okay for Michael Vick, a convicted criminal to have an NFL job, but not Michael Sam, whose only crimes are being open and honest?

Dungy is just another religious man who hates gay people. The "distractions" remark is just a lame excuse.

He nearly signed Vick, so he would've had no problem with bringing in the media circus surrounding his thug ass. But signing a gay man? No, we just can't do that & have all those distractions.

Horse .

its kind of hard to sign someone when he was retired from coaching, I'm not going to say everything he's said is right but get your facts straight. also micheal vick was a proven talent in the NFL being one of the most physically gifted QB's there ever was, versus Michael Sam who was a low draft pic who would have had a media circus around him with a far less chance of being a successful NFL player, it's part of the reason Tim Tebow doesn't have a job in the NFL right now, there is too little talent there to afford keeping the circus around.

LoL @ saying Vick was this great QB

He was, is, & will always be hot garbage. He was never a good QB. Exciting runner? Sure, when he wasn't hurt. But he's never been a good QB.

Hardy not being drafted high for a domestic abuse charge is completely warranted and it doesn't matter if you think the victim was a gold digger, and for the mike vick part re-read what i wrote, he was a proven talent (led his team to a NFC championship game, 3 Probowls, numerous individual running and passing records), I also said he was on of the most physically gifted QB's there ever was, he was quicker than any other QB out there and could turn on a dime, he also had a cannon of a arm, but these physical traits also cost him in terms of injuries by having to make plays happen with his feet, and not being mentally disciplined enough to know when to stay in the pocket and throw which has always been a knock on his but is completely correctable with proper coaching. Michael Sam on the other hand is not proven at all other than being able to play college ball at a high level but when it came down to measurables he didn't match up to his peers at the combine which is why GM's were able to pass on him in the draft.

[Ateles fusciceps]

Dungy is just another religious man who hates gay people.

Have you ever met a religious person in your life? There's more to religion than the Westboro Baptist Church, you know.

My living grandfather is a pastor. The other was Catholic. I've probably spent more time in church than anyone on this board.

The majority of religious folks, including Dungy, dislike gays. What's funny, though, is that there's a large number of them that are closet homosexuals living lies.