Mizzou's Michael Sam comes out

[Gothamite]

The first gay player will always face a circus. If only Dixie Walker could have fallen back on the "I just don't like the media attention" excuse.

Someday, a player being gay won't require a public admission. But the venom spewed in Sam's direction shows us that we aren't there yet.

Someday, gay couples will be totally free to marry just like any other couple. But we aren't there yet, either.

Someday, gay men and women will be allowed to adopt children in every state in the union. We're much closer, but we aren't there yet.

Someday, gay men and women will be full members of our society and all this attention won't be needed. But it is today.

[TalktoChuck]

Wait, nobody's denying that black players played at the dawn of the sport. But that was before there was an organized effort by the major leagues to establish and maintain a color barrier. Totally different situation.

Yeah, no.

Burke wasn't out to the public, so he wasn't really out.

Maybe he wanted to be but lacked real access. Regardless, the public didn't know.

Rock Hudson's real life was an open secret in Hollywood for thirty years, but he was still buried deep in the closet when he died.

The guy made no secret about his preferences. How is that "not really out?" Lacking access doesn't change the fact that he was open about his sexuality. He was out enough that I knew about it back then. It was odd because the reaction was pretty much "yeah, so?"

Again, I think Rock Hudson serves as the best example. I knew he was gay long before he came out of the closet, but that's because I was plugged in to Hollywood. Everybody in LA knew about Rock, but nobody made it public. Same with Burke.

Did Burke ever hold a press conference? Did he seek out an interview with a writer who he knew would print it? The Advocate, after all, was already a national newspaper. They would have been glad to publish it.

Not actively hiding is not quite the same as being open.

Does someone need to do all those things to be open about their sexuality, cant someone just live their life and not care what anyone thinks or declaring everything about their life to the media. Maybe I should go to the press to tell them I'm straight, and maybe every athlete should too. I guarantee you will see more than just Sam being gay playing football and I'm sure their team mates know too, and it doesn't matter to them. I'm sure most athletes would accept other gay players over Michael Sam just because they hate the circus that will follow Michael look at me Sam

You make some good points in your posts, but your obvious bias against Michael Sam is hindering people from taking you seriously.

And like Rams said, if you've ever posted a picture of you and your girlfriend or held hands in public you are advertising that you're straight.

[Gothamite]

Yeah, we all "flaunt our sexulality" every single day. I wear a wedding ring, I have pictures of my wife and kids on my desk and work and all over my social media.

It's no different. He's just higher-profile, so people care more.

[Sport]

Wait, nobody's denying that black players played at the dawn of the sport. But that was before there was an organized effort by the major leagues to establish and maintain a color barrier. Totally different situation.

Yeah, no.

Burke wasn't out to the public, so he wasn't really out.

Maybe he wanted to be but lacked real access. Regardless, the public didn't know.

Rock Hudson's real life was an open secret in Hollywood for thirty years, but he was still buried deep in the closet when he died.

The guy made no secret about his preferences. How is that "not really out?" Lacking access doesn't change the fact that he was open about his sexuality. He was out enough that I knew about it back then. It was odd because the reaction was pretty much "yeah, so?"

Again, I think Rock Hudson serves as the best example. I knew he was gay long before he came out of the closet, but that's because I was plugged in to Hollywood. Everybody in LA knew about Rock, but nobody made it public. Same with Burke.

Did Burke ever hold a press conference? Did he seek out an interview with a writer who he knew would print it? The Advocate, after all, was already a national newspaper. They would have been glad to publish it.

Not actively hiding is not quite the same as being open.

Does someone need to do all those things to be open about their sexuality, cant someone just live their life and not care what anyone thinks or declaring everything about their life to the media. Maybe I should go to the press to tell them I'm straight, and maybe every athlete should too. I guarantee you will see more than just Sam being gay playing football and I'm sure their team mates know too, and it doesn't matter to them. I'm sure most athletes would accept other gay players over Michael Sam just because they hate the circus that will follow Michael look at me Sam

Michael "Look at me" Sam. Good nickname. He came out quietly to his team last summer and we didn't hear about it all last season. Not really a "look at me" move. He likely had plans to do the same with his new team, but GM's and scouts got wind of it before the draft so he decided to put it out there so that he could tell his own story and so that the teams wouldn't hear wrong second hand information.

The day when it's no longer a big deal will come, but because it's never been done before somebody has to do it first and that's why it's a big deal. don't know why that's so incomprehensible to you. The second, third, fourth, fifth time and so on this happens it'll get less and less coverage until we get to the point where it's normal that there are gay professional athletes and it won't get any coverage. Hollywood is basically there already.

Another example: the first american in space, Allen Shepherd, got a ticker tape parade in Manhattan when he got back and he was barely in space for fifteen minutes. After that astronauts came and went to and from space for much longer durations with little to no fanfare. Point is the first person through the wall always gets bloody, but they also always get the most recognition.

[STL FANATIC]

Yeah, we all "flaunt our sexulality" every single day. I wear a wedding ring, I have pictures of my wife and kids on my desk and work and all over my social media.

It's no different. He's just higher-profile, so people care more.

Side note, and I know you absolutely didn't mean it this way, so not calling you out at all. But the wedding ring shouldn't be an indication of your sexual preference. Today it still is in a lot of the country, but it certainly should't be and hopefully won't be for very much longer.

[STL FANATIC]

For those that don't understand why this has to be a big deal, it's partly because when they see "every day" gay moments, they freak out in disgust.

Look no further than Sam's kiss of his boyfriend on ESPN. If you want to complain that they simply talked about Sam too much, so be it. But if you complained about the kiss, then you're complaining something that would have not been given a second thought if it had been a straight couple.

The quickest way for society to get past this is to expose them to a lifestyle they currently find uncomfortable as much as possible for a little while. Make them see it so much that they become numb to it.

Because that's ultimately what we want. We want everyone to see a gay couple kiss and not even notice what they saw. That's when we'll truly have progressed. And in order to get there we have to expose, expose, expose.

Now, the other reason to make it a big deal is to make sure other people who are currently unable to really be the person they know they are can be exposed to this story and hopefully find the confidence to start being who they want to be. Not everyone needs to have a big coming out party, but hopefully they'll find the confidence to be open and unworried about the world seeing them for who they really are.

[Gothamite]

Yeah, we all "flaunt our sexulality" every single day. I wear a wedding ring, I have pictures of my wife and kids on my desk and work and all over my social media.

It's no different. He's just higher-profile, so people care more.

Side note, and I know you absolutely didn't mean it this way, so not calling you out at all. But the wedding ring shouldn't be an indication of your sexual preference. Today it still is in a lot of the country, but it certainly should't be and hopefully won't be for very much longer.

Agreed completely.

But when I first put the ring on (and it doesn't even seem that long ago), it was very much an indication. Gay people couldn't legally marry in any state.

Fortunately, that's changed in a major way. It'll be all fifty within a year or two.

[infrared41]

Wait, nobody's denying that black players played at the dawn of the sport. But that was before there was an organized effort by the major leagues to establish and maintain a color barrier. Totally different situation.

Again, I think Rock Hudson serves as the best example. I knew he was gay long before he came out of the closet, but that's because I was plugged in to Hollywood. Everybody in LA knew about Rock, but nobody made it public. Same with Burke.

Did Burke ever hold a press conference? Did he seek out an interview with a writer who he knew would print it? The Advocate, after all, was already a national newspaper. They would have been glad, even desperate, to publish the story of an openly gay baseball player.

Not actively hiding is not quite the same as being open.

So Walker wasn't the first black player because there was no organized effort to keep blacks out of the game back then? Yeah, no. From MLB.com...

In 1884, Walker broke through the invisible barrier that had stopped black men from playing "Organized Baseball," and he had achieved this historic first more than a half century before Jackie Robinson reached the Major Leagues. In fact, Walker's experiences were not significantly different than Robinson's were.

Care to explain the difference between the bolded part and 1947's version of the "barrier?"

At the time, segregation in baseball was more a gentleman's agreement. Whites might not have liked black participation in their game, but they didn't turn to state or federal laws or draft a league-wide policy to stop a black person from playing.

Was there an official rule in the books in 1947 stating that Blacks weren't allowed to play in the majors? To my knowledge, it was the same "gentlemen's agreement" in 1947.

When it comes to "firsts", you can't cherry pick the circumstances to make them fit your argument. Am I saying Walker's situation was the same as Robinson's? Not at all. What I am saying is Walker was the first black player. The same thing applies to Glenn Burke. Just because he didn't meet your requirements doesn't mean he wasn't the first openly gay athlete. Again, I'm not saying Burke's situation is the same as that of Collins or Sam. All I'm saying is when it comes to being "first", Burke was the guy.

Your points regarding the respective climate surrounding each event are valid, but your assertion that neither Walker or Burke were "the first" is simply incorrect. Normally, I'm not one to get hung up on semantics, but in this case they make a big difference.

[BBTV]

I'd love for anyone who is freaked out by "every day gay" moments to spend a day in my neighborhood, affectionately known as the "New Gayborhood" or "Gayborhood South". Hell - my gym is primarily gay (a fact I didn't realize until walking in to a particular bar for the first time and seeing all the boys hanging out together). The best part about living in a neighborhood like this and having gay friends is that women find them non-threatening and hang out with them, so when we're hanging out and find out I'm straight, things typically work out well for me.

For what it's worth, most (not all) of the gay guys I'm friends with hate Michael Sam and hate that it's a big deal and drawing all kinds of attention. They just kinda want to "be gay", if that makes any sense. Of course I'm sure that a lot of that is due to the fact that they do live in such an "integrated" (for lack of a better term - I really hate saying "accepting") area where they don't necessarily face all of the same struggles that most probably do. Also strange is that a lot of them are really religious, even going as far as to believe that they're living in sin, and feel that marriage is man and woman. That absolutely blew my mind. I'm sure that's probably just because it's still a small sample size in the grand scheme of things.

[Gothamite]

What do you think about Rock Hudson, infrared? Openly gay in 1980, or not?

[dfwabel]

Think about this, Sam has agents who have only been in business for a year.

Plus the rookie agents teamed with Howard Bragman. Bragman controls the show and $$$.

I get that he will have a show with OWN/Discovery since he was a 7th round pick and could get "executive producer" credit which will give him more $$$, but agents get 3-4% of a NFL contract, but agents can get as much as 15% of other deals.

[BBTV]

Don't some agencies do the rookie contract for "free" in hopes that they get a larger cut of the big-money extension? Or would that only work for better players?

[BBTV]

What do you think about Rock Hudson, infrared? Openly gay in 1980, or not?

I know you weren't asking me but I'll comment here anyway. I was born in 1977. The Rock Hudson AIDS announcement in 84 or 85 was the first time I had ever heard of AIDS, and then the subsequent discussion became the first time I had ever heard of homosexuality. I can't comment on whether he was out or not by 1980 since I was only 3, but from what I can recall years later, it was a huge deal when all the gay talk started, so I would imagine that he wasn't publically "out" until around then.

[The_Admiral]

So John Wayne, that guy was gay, right?

[infrared41]

What do you think about Rock Hudson, infrared? Openly gay in 1980, or not?

I give up. If a baseball player tells everyone he's gay but no one listens, I guess that means he's not "out." First is first whether it's fits your criteria or not.

[Gothamite]

Come on, man. Just answer the question.

If Burke really wanted the public to know, he could have told them. But he didn't. At best, he was in a twilight. But not the same at all as Collins or Michael Sam, where everybody in the stadium knows the truth.

[vicfurth]

I'm with infrared; if it doesn't fit the Gothamite agenda it didn't happen, right?

[Nyk33]

Michael Sam has a reality show with Oprah.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/14/michael-sam-gets-a-reality-show-on-oprahs-network/

I'm not sure I like this direction for Michael Sam. Obviously he is going to make a lot of money but I feel it is adding unnecessary fuel to the media inferno around him and is giving bigots a new avenue to attack him with by pegging him as a spotlight hog.

Edit: Not everyone that is going to call Michael Sam a spotlight hog is going to be a homophobe but the bigots will be major players in pushing that to the forefront.

[wonderbread]

Michael Sam has a reality show with Oprah.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/14/michael-sam-gets-a-reality-show-on-oprahs-network/

I'm not sure I like this direction for Michael Sam. Obviously he is going to make a lot of money but I feel it is adding unnecessary fuel to the media inferno around him and is giving bigots a new avenue to attack him with by pegging him as a spotlight hog.

Since when is saying someone only wants attention is them being a bigot. This is my view on the matter, i certainly dont hate gays but I'm questioning Michael Sams intentions for coming out right now, and do feel he's just seeking attention he wouldn't get as a straight 7th round draft pick.

[-kj]

I'm with infrared; if it doesn't fit the Gothamite agenda it didn't happen, right?

It seems that all you've done in this tread is troll; please stop that.

Going forward, everyone: please continue discussing/debating ideas, rather than just arguing with the username.