Mizzou's Michael Sam comes out

[Sport]

I wont be shocked if Hbo picks the Rams for hard knocks

It's really a hard-sell between the Rams (Sam) and the Browns (Johnny Football). Then again, the way the NFL picked on Manziel during the draft makes me thinks they'll snub Cleveland.

Browns won't want it with a first-year head coach. Maybe next year though.

But next year they'll have another first-year head coach.

FOLKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Soarindude]

. If he has a great career (just saying), he could be the LGBT equivalent to Jackie Robinson.

No.

[LAWeaver]

. If he has a great career (just saying), he could be the LGBT equivalent to Jackie Robinson.

No.

I honestly don't see why not. Robinson broke the color barrier, why can't Sam do the same and break through the "gay barrier" (for lack of a better term)?

[Nyk33]

. If he has a great career (just saying), he could be the LGBT equivalent to Jackie Robinson.

No.

I honestly don't see why not. Robinson broke the color barrier, why can't Sam do the same and break through the "gay barrier" (for lack of a better term)?

I see what you are saying but since Jason Collins was the first to do it wouldn't he be the LGBT Jackie Robinson?

[rams80]

. If he has a great career (just saying), he could be the LGBT equivalent to Jackie Robinson.

No.

I honestly don't see why not. Robinson broke the color barrier, why can't Sam do the same and break through the "gay barrier" (for lack of a better term)?

I see what you are saying but since Jason Collins was the first to do it wouldn't he be the LGBT Jackie Robinson?

Not necessarily. The Rams actually integrated the year before Robinson got his start with the Dodgers.

[DelayedPenalty]

. If he has a great career (just saying), he could be the LGBT equivalent to Jackie Robinson.

No.

I honestly don't see why not. Robinson broke the color barrier, why can't Sam do the same and break through the "gay barrier" (for lack of a better term)?

I see what you are saying but since Jason Collins was the first to do it wouldn't he be the LGBT Jackie Robinson?

In 5 years ask anyone who the first openly gay professional athlete was and I bet people won't remember Jason Collins. Collins' coming out seemed almost like a publicity stunt (I'm not questioning his motives or his sexuality, just hear me out). Free agent, nearing the end of his career, needing a last hurrah and knowing a team would sign him just for the publicity. Sam took a huge risk coming out before the NFL draft, knowing full well it would likely hurt his draft stock (which it did). He could have waited until after he was drafted and made an NFL roster, but he didn't. If he turns out to be a superstar player, then he will be seen as the ground breaker. If he never makes an NFL roster, he won't.

Until there is a superstar gay athlete I think the "gay barrier" remain unbroken. Collins and Sam will always be "the first gay player in the..." though.

[Nyk33]

. If he has a great career (just saying), he could be the LGBT equivalent to Jackie Robinson.

No.

I honestly don't see why not. Robinson broke the color barrier, why can't Sam do the same and break through the "gay barrier" (for lack of a better term)?

I see what you are saying but since Jason Collins was the first to do it wouldn't he be the LGBT Jackie Robinson?

In 5 years ask anyone who the first openly gay professional athlete was and I bet people won't remember Jason Collins. Collins' coming out seemed almost like a publicity stunt (I'm not questioning his motives or his sexuality, just hear me out). Free agent, nearing the end of his career, needing a last hurrah and knowing a team would sign him just for the publicity. Sam took a huge risk coming out before the NFL draft, knowing full well it would likely hurt his draft stock (which it did). He could have waited until after he was drafted and made an NFL roster, but he didn't. If he turns out to be a superstar player, then he will be seen as the ground breaker. If he never makes an NFL roster, he won't.

Until there is a superstar gay athlete I think the "gay barrier" remain unbroken. Collins and Sam will always be "the first gay player in the..." though.

I don't think Collins will be forgotten and I still think of Collins as the first player to break the gay barrier in the 4 major sports (I like MLS but it doesn't count as a major sports league in NA so no one really noticed Robbie Rogers).

However I will agree with you on Sam's coming out requiring more courage due to the circumstances he was in with the draft. Collins was at the twilight of his career so he had a lot less to lose than Sam who is just getting his career started.

[IceCap]

Until there is a superstar gay athlete I think the "gay barrier" remain unbroken. Collins and Sam will always be "the first gay player in the..." though.

I agree with that. The thing is, and this can be confirmed by checking his posts earlier in this thread (I'm in phone at the moment), that Soarindude doesn't seem to think that coming out as gay is a "struggle."

So you could have a rookie QB come out as gay next season and have him go on to become the second coming of Joe Montana and you'd still have people who will say "it's no big deal why does he have to make such a big deal about it? Why couldn't he keep it to himself? Him being open about his sexuality disgusts me!"

Point being that you could have every milestone that needs to be reached reached and you'll still have bigots who will try to downplay it because apparently being gay and a pro athlete will make the world explode or something.

[infrared41]

In 5 years ask anyone who the first openly gay professional athlete was and I bet people won't remember Jason Collins.

Probably not. If we want to get technical, the correct answer to that question is Glenn Burke.

[Gothamite]

Yeah, no.

Burke wasn't out to the public, so he wasn't really out.

Maybe he wanted to be but lacked real access. Regardless, the public didn't know.

Rock Hudson's real life was an open secret in Hollywood for thirty years, but he was still buried deep in the closet until a few months before he died.

[wonderbread]

. If he has a great career (just saying), he could be the LGBT equivalent to Jackie Robinson.

No.

I honestly don't see why not. Robinson broke the color barrier, why can't Sam do the same and break through the "gay barrier" (for lack of a better term)?

I see what you are saying but since Jason Collins was the first to do it wouldn't he be the LGBT Jackie Robinson?

In 5 years ask anyone who the first openly gay professional athlete was and I bet people won't remember Jason Collins. Collins' coming out seemed almost like a publicity stunt (I'm not questioning his motives or his sexuality, just hear me out). Free agent, nearing the end of his career, needing a last hurrah and knowing a team would sign him just for the publicity. Sam took a huge risk coming out before the NFL draft, knowing full well it would likely hurt his draft stock (which it did). He could have waited until after he was drafted and made an NFL roster, but he didn't. If he turns out to be a superstar player, then he will be seen as the ground breaker. If he never makes an NFL roster, he won't.

Until there is a superstar gay athlete I think the "gay barrier" remain unbroken. Collins and Sam will always be "the first gay player in the..." though.

Coming out did not hurt sams draft stock, being undersized, weak, and slow at the combine did. Don't blame the mans sexuality for being. 7th round draft pick. The fact of the matter is that NFL teams want results but they didn't see Michael Sam as anything more than a 7th round draft pick or didnt need him and the rams didnt draft him till then.

[Soarindude]

Until there is a superstar gay athlete I think the "gay barrier" remain unbroken. Collins and Sam will always be "the first gay player in the..." though.

I agree with that. The thing is, and this can be confirmed by checking his posts earlier in this thread (I'm in phone at the moment), that Soarindude doesn't seem to think that coming out as gay is a "struggle."

So you could have a rookie QB come out as gay next season and have him go on to become the second coming of Joe Montana and you'd still have people who will say "it's no big deal why does he have to make such a big deal about it? Why couldn't he keep it to himself? Him being open about his sexuality disgusts me!"

Point being that you could have every milestone that needs to be reached reached and you'll still have bigots who will try to downplay it because apparently being gay and a pro athlete will make the world explode or something.

I never said that. But I don't think the struggle would be to the same level of what Jackie Robinson accomplished. Sure, it's a struggle, but nowhere near the same amount of struggle. That's all I'm saying, because at this point, anything I say that could be interpreted as anything less than "YES MICHAEL SAM WOOOH", it'll be attacked, as well as myself.

[Gothamite]

Now, now. The victim card hardly suits you.

Nobody will ever face what Jackie Robinson faced, for the simple reason that he was the first man to break down a barrier. He is the template, and all people since then are considered "the _________ Jackie Robinson." He did it when there was no precedent.

That being said, you also can't diminish what other pioneers have done, just because Jackie Robinson did something similar first.

[IceCap]

Until there is a superstar gay athlete I think the "gay barrier" remain unbroken. Collins and Sam will always be "the first gay player in the..." though.

I agree with that. The thing is, and this can be confirmed by checking his posts earlier in this thread (I'm in phone at the moment), that Soarindude doesn't seem to think that coming out as gay is a "struggle."

So you could have a rookie QB come out as gay next season and have him go on to become the second coming of Joe Montana and you'd still have people who will say "it's no big deal why does he have to make such a big deal about it? Why couldn't he keep it to himself? Him being open about his sexuality disgusts me!"

Point being that you could have every milestone that needs to be reached reached and you'll still have bigots who will try to downplay it because apparently being gay and a pro athlete will make the world explode or something.

I never said that. But I don't think the struggle would be to the same level of what Jackie Robinson accomplished. Sure, it's a struggle, but nowhere near the same amount of struggle. That's all I'm saying, because at this point, anything I say that could be interpreted as anything less than "YES MICHAEL SAM WOOOH", it'll be attacked, as well as myself.

First off yes you did. Secondly, as I told you back then, trying to play the "which oppressed minority was oppressed the most?" game is idiotic because you inevitably end up trivializing the very real hardships one group faced.

Final line? You don't know how hard it is to come out. So you're in no position to judge how much of a "struggle" someone faces when they do. Especially when they do it publically as a consequence of their profession.

[Gothamite]

Coming out did not hurt sams draft stock, being undersized, weak, and slow at the combine did. Don't blame the mans sexuality for being. 7th round draft pick. The fact of the matter is that NFL teams want results but they didn't see Michael Sam as anything more than a 7th round draft pick or didnt need him and the rams didnt draft him till then.

That's actually not true. When he first came out of the closet, NFL GMs were already downgrading him for "character issues". His combine performance just gave them cover.

[infrared41]

Yeah, no.

Burke wasn't out to the public, so he wasn't really out.

Maybe he wanted to be but lacked real access. Regardless, the public didn't know.

Rock Hudson's real life was an open secret in Hollywood for thirty years, but he was still buried deep in the closet when he died.

The guy made no secret about his preferences. How is that "not really out?" Lacking access doesn't change the fact that he was open about his sexuality. He was out enough that I knew about it back then. It was odd because the reaction was pretty much "yeah, so?"

[infrared41]

Now, now. The victim card hardly suits you.

Nobody will ever face what Jackie Robinson faced, for the simple reason that he was the first man to break down a barrier. He is the template, and all people since then are considered "the _________ Jackie Robinson." He did it when there was no precedent.

Yeah, no. You might want to check out Moses Fleetwood Walker. Maybe Walker wanted to be black but he just didn't have the access.

[Gothamite]

Wait, nobody's denying that black players played at the dawn of the sport. But that was before there was an organized effort by the major leagues to establish and maintain a color barrier. Totally different situation.

Yeah, no.

Burke wasn't out to the public, so he wasn't really out.

Maybe he wanted to be but lacked real access. Regardless, the public didn't know.

Rock Hudson's real life was an open secret in Hollywood for thirty years, but he was still buried deep in the closet when he died.

The guy made no secret about his preferences. How is that "not really out?" Lacking access doesn't change the fact that he was open about his sexuality. He was out enough that I knew about it back then. It was odd because the reaction was pretty much "yeah, so?"

Again, I think Rock Hudson serves as the best example. I knew he was gay long before he came out of the closet, but that's because I was plugged in to Hollywood. Everybody in LA knew about Rock, but nobody made it public. Same with Burke.

Did Burke ever hold a press conference? Did he seek out an interview with a writer who he knew would print it? The Advocate, after all, was already a national newspaper. They would have been glad, even desperate, to publish the story of an openly gay baseball player.

Not actively hiding is not quite the same as being open.

[wonderbread]

Wait, nobody's denying that black players played at the dawn of the sport. But that was before there was an organized effort by the major leagues to establish and maintain a color barrier. Totally different situation.

Yeah, no.

Burke wasn't out to the public, so he wasn't really out.

Maybe he wanted to be but lacked real access. Regardless, the public didn't know.

Rock Hudson's real life was an open secret in Hollywood for thirty years, but he was still buried deep in the closet when he died.

The guy made no secret about his preferences. How is that "not really out?" Lacking access doesn't change the fact that he was open about his sexuality. He was out enough that I knew about it back then. It was odd because the reaction was pretty much "yeah, so?"

Again, I think Rock Hudson serves as the best example. I knew he was gay long before he came out of the closet, but that's because I was plugged in to Hollywood. Everybody in LA knew about Rock, but nobody made it public. Same with Burke.

Did Burke ever hold a press conference? Did he seek out an interview with a writer who he knew would print it? The Advocate, after all, was already a national newspaper. They would have been glad to publish it.

Not actively hiding is not quite the same as being open.

Does someone need to do all those things to be open about their sexuality, cant someone just live their life and not care what anyone thinks or declaring everything about their life to the media. Maybe I should go to the press to tell them I'm straight, and maybe every athlete should too. I guarantee you will see more than just Sam being gay playing football and I'm sure their team mates know too, and it doesn't matter to them. I'm sure most athletes would accept other gay players over Michael Sam just because they hate the circus that will follow Michael look at me Sam

[rams80]

Wait, nobody's denying that black players played at the dawn of the sport. But that was before there was an organized effort by the major leagues to establish and maintain a color barrier. Totally different situation.

Yeah, no.

Burke wasn't out to the public, so he wasn't really out.

Maybe he wanted to be but lacked real access. Regardless, the public didn't know.

Rock Hudson's real life was an open secret in Hollywood for thirty years, but he was still buried deep in the closet when he died.

The guy made no secret about his preferences. How is that "not really out?" Lacking access doesn't change the fact that he was open about his sexuality. He was out enough that I knew about it back then. It was odd because the reaction was pretty much "yeah, so?"

Again, I think Rock Hudson serves as the best example. I knew he was gay long before he came out of the closet, but that's because I was plugged in to Hollywood. Everybody in LA knew about Rock, but nobody made it public. Same with Burke.

Did Burke ever hold a press conference? Did he seek out an interview with a writer who he knew would print it? The Advocate, after all, was already a national newspaper. They would have been glad to publish it.

Not actively hiding is not quite the same as being open.

Does someone need to do all those things to be open about their sexuality, cant someone just live their life and not care what anyone thinks or declaring everything about their life to the media. Maybe I should go to the press to tell them I'm straight, and maybe every athlete should too. I guarantee you will see more than just Sam being gay playing football and I'm sure their team mates know too, and it doesn't matter to them. I'm sure most athletes would accept other gay players over Michael Sam just because they hate the circus that will follow Michael look at me Sam

Do you have pictures of you kissing your girlfriend/wife on facebook? It's the same thing.