Mizzou's Michael Sam comes out

[Needschat]

Smoking pot is a victimless crime

DUI, DWI, even if nothing happens, is NOT a victimless crime.

And we're still waiting for the Dungy, "Things will happen" distractions at Rams' Camp

[IceCap]

I've been surprised how low key the coverage of Sam has been. Surprised in a good way but still surprised.

[Needschat]

I've been surprised how low key the coverage of Sam has been. Surprised in a good way but still surprised.

Actually, so am I. The camp's not been overrun.

[HedleyLamarr]

Smoking pot is a victimless crime

DUI, DWI, even if nothing happens, is NOT a victimless crime.

And we're still waiting for the Dungy, "Things will happen" distractions at Rams' Camp

Do explain.

I own a gun. I have the capability to hold up a liquor store at gunpoint. Should I be charged with armed robbery just because I might cause harm by owning a gun?

Why is it a crime if nothing happens? Why is it a crime if something bad can possibly happen but doesn't?

[Needschat]

Smoking pot is a victimless crime

DUI, DWI, even if nothing happens, is NOT a victimless crime.

And we're still waiting for the Dungy, "Things will happen" distractions at Rams' Camp

Do explain.

I own a gun. I have the capability to hold up a liquor store at gunpoint. Should I be charged with armed robbery just because I might cause harm by owning a gun?

Why is it a crime if nothing happens? Why is it a crime if something bad can possibly happen but doesn't?

You're a danger to public safety when you're driving impaired, whether or not something happened. It's like waving a loaded handgun in the air while you walk down the street: You're a danger to others.

[HedleyLamarr]

Ok, let me re-phrase.....how is a crime committed if there's no victim as a result? How is it a crime if there was no disservice done to anyone?

Don't give me that crap about "potentially harming someone" being a crime....that excuse can be made for just about anything, whether it be a umbrella being kept in your car or a steak knife you're using a restaurant...both of which could be used as a weapon.

[Needschat]

Ok, let me re-phrase.....how is a crime committed if there's no victim as a result? How is it a crime if there was no disservice done to anyone?

Don't give me that crap about "potentially harming someone" being a crime....that excuse can be made for just about anything, whether it be a umbrella being kept in your car or a steak knife you're using a restaurant...both of which could be used as a weapon.

Being intoxicated/impaired removes your ability to make reasonable decisions. Being behind the wheel while drunk is dangerous, and there's NO reason for anyone to argue the point.

[Lee Noire]

I used to want to smack anyone who said "it is what it is". Replace that now with "distractions".

I really hate the "distractions" thing. It's basically at the point of having a hashtag in front of it as much as it's used. I don't like that Sam is practically being blamed for bringing said distractions. As if he held members of the media at gunpoint and threatened to kill them if they didn't cover him and his story.

[HedleyLamarr]

Ok, let me re-phrase.....how is a crime committed if there's no victim as a result? How is it a crime if there was no disservice done to anyone?

Don't give me that crap about "potentially harming someone" being a crime....that excuse can be made for just about anything, whether it be a umbrella being kept in your car or a steak knife you're using a restaurant...both of which could be used as a weapon.

Being intoxicated/impaired removes your ability to make reasonable decisions. Being behind the wheel while drunk is dangerous, and there's NO reason for anyone to argue the point.

Driving a car period is dangerous. You can cause an accident and even kill someone while being sober. I'm even willing to bet that there's more accidents caused by sober drivers than drunk drivers. So.....

I don't know how I can make this question any more simple. How is a crime committed if there's no victim as a result of your actions? How is it a crime if there was no disservice done towards anyone?

Saying "It's a crime because it's preventing harm" can be said for just about anything you do.

[Needschat]

Ok, let me re-phrase.....how is a crime committed if there's no victim as a result? How is it a crime if there was no disservice done to anyone?

Don't give me that crap about "potentially harming someone" being a crime....that excuse can be made for just about anything, whether it be a umbrella being kept in your car or a steak knife you're using a restaurant...both of which could be used as a weapon.

Being intoxicated/impaired removes your ability to make reasonable decisions. Being behind the wheel while drunk is dangerous, and there's NO reason for anyone to argue the point.

Driving a car period is dangerous. You can cause an accident and even kill someone while being sober. I'm even willing to bet that there's more accidents caused by sober drivers than drunk drivers. So.....

I don't know how I can make this question any more simple. How is a crime committed if there's no victim as a result of your actions? How is it a crime if there was no disservice done towards anyone?

Saying "It's a crime because it's preventing harm" can be said for just about anything you do.

Okay, you believe DWI/DUI is NOT a crime when no one's hurt? Am I correct?

[rams80]

I've been surprised how low key the coverage of Sam has been. Surprised in a good way but still surprised.

Actually, so am I. The camp's not been overrun.

Most of the media can't handle the humidity in Earth City

Ok, let me re-phrase.....how is a crime committed if there's no victim as a result? How is it a crime if there was no disservice done to anyone?

Don't give me that crap about "potentially harming someone" being a crime....that excuse can be made for just about anything, whether it be a umbrella being kept in your car or a steak knife you're using a restaurant...both of which could be used as a weapon.

Being intoxicated/impaired removes your ability to make reasonable decisions. Being behind the wheel while drunk is dangerous, and there's NO reason for anyone to argue the point.

Driving a car period is dangerous. You can cause an accident and even kill someone while being sober. I'm even willing to bet that there's more accidents caused by sober drivers than drunk drivers. So.....

I don't know how I can make this question any more simple. How is a crime committed if there's no victim as a result of your actions? How is it a crime if there was no disservice done towards anyone?

Saying "It's a crime because it's preventing harm" can be said for just about anything you do.

Okay, you believe DWI/DUI is NOT a crime when no one's hurt? Am I correct?

Hedley, being a font of virile masculinity, regularly drives home 3 sheets to the wind.

[Cosmic]

Are we seriously arguing about whether or not DUI is bad? In 2014? It's not just like waving a gun around; it's like firing your gun off wildly around a crowd of people. But hey, if I didn't hit anybody, I was just having fun! I damn well hope there are more accidents caused by the 99% of sober people than the 1% that drink and drive. That's not a logical fallacy or anything, saying that more accidents by sober people means DUI is OK.

Driving a car IS dangerous, so your argument is why is it a big deal if someone makes it a lot more dangerous? Society as a whole pays for/owns the roads, and you are licensed to use them under the assumption that you follow the rules. Don't act like there aren't other rules where doing something bad/dangerous is a crime by itself without actually causing damage. Courts have this thing called a "reasonable" standard... if I'm holding my knife at a restaurant table and some guy walks by and falls on it, it's a little different than if I close my eyes and whip the knife across the room.

[FiddySicks]

Ok, let me re-phrase.....how is a crime committed if there's no victim as a result? How is it a crime if there was no disservice done to anyone?

Don't give me that crap about "potentially harming someone" being a crime....that excuse can be made for just about anything, whether it be a umbrella being kept in your car or a steak knife you're using a restaurant...both of which could be used as a weapon.

Being intoxicated/impaired removes your ability to make reasonable decisions. Being behind the wheel while drunk is dangerous, and there's NO reason for anyone to argue the point.

Driving a car period is dangerous. You can cause an accident and even kill someone while being sober. I'm even willing to bet that there's more accidents caused by sober drivers than drunk drivers. So.....

I don't know how I can make this question any more simple. How is a crime committed if there's no victim as a result of your actions? How is it a crime if there was no disservice done towards anyone?

Saying "It's a crime because it's preventing harm" can be said for just about anything you do.

Wow. And you give me :censored: for sitting in the wrong seats at a baseball game.

[Gothamite]

Ho-kay. I'm going to pretend that we're not seriously debating that.

Instead, worth pointing out that Tony Dungy's famous "distractions" haven't actually materialized... except around Dungy's comments themselves. Which would indicate that thinly-veiled bigotry is worse for a team (or network, or league) than letting gay men have jobs too.

[Raysfan12]

I've been surprised how low key the coverage of Sam has been. Surprised in a good way but still surprised.

I'm quite surprised as well. I think the Rams are doing a great job focusing the media away from Sam's sexual orientation and directing it on how the team will be next year. That will help both Michael Sam and the Rams in the long run.

[IceCap]

So Hedley, are you arguing that a cop shouldn't be able to charge you with a crime it he pulls you over and discovers you're driving impaired? I mean you're arguing that it's wrong to charge someone with a crime for the potential to do wrong. You haven't hit anyone yet, what's this cop doing hassling you for something you could potentially do! That's your argument here, right?

[HedleyLamarr]

I am steadfastly against any crime where there is no victim. I don't know how much more simpler I can put it. Anything can be construed as "potentially causing a victim". It's not a crime if something "possibly" or "potentially" could happen but doesn't.

I'm not saying I'm all for drunk driving, but I am in favor of other methods to deter drunk driving without it being a burden on the taxpayers by having DUI offenders serve jail time, as well as victimless crimes serving as a police department's moneymaking scheme. We should better educate people, we could raise the driving age, and we could require all drivers to annual (or bi-annual or every 4 years, whatever) driving tests and exams.

[HedleyLamarr]

Ok, let me re-phrase.....how is a crime committed if there's no victim as a result? How is it a crime if there was no disservice done to anyone?

Don't give me that crap about "potentially harming someone" being a crime....that excuse can be made for just about anything, whether it be a umbrella being kept in your car or a steak knife you're using a restaurant...both of which could be used as a weapon.

Being intoxicated/impaired removes your ability to make reasonable decisions. Being behind the wheel while drunk is dangerous, and there's NO reason for anyone to argue the point.

Driving a car period is dangerous. You can cause an accident and even kill someone while being sober. I'm even willing to bet that there's more accidents caused by sober drivers than drunk drivers. So.....

I don't know how I can make this question any more simple. How is a crime committed if there's no victim as a result of your actions? How is it a crime if there was no disservice done towards anyone?

Saying "It's a crime because it's preventing harm" can be said for just about anything you do.

Okay, you believe DWI/DUI is NOT a crime when no one's hurt? Am I correct?

Is a driver any more impaired by alcohol than they are when using a phone, eating a burger, changing radio stations, or yelling at their kids?

As long as there's no victim, there's no crime being committed. Who are you victimizing? As in present-tense, not future tense.

There are alternate methods to handling drunk drivers besides issuing out fines and jail time. We have a country of full jails and backed-up lines at the courthouse. We could put better use to taxpayer money than housing DUI offenders and the multitude of government workers that have to do line-control for speeding ticket offenders and marijuana dealers.

[wonderbread]

Ok, let me re-phrase.....how is a crime committed if there's no victim as a result? How is it a crime if there was no disservice done to anyone?

Don't give me that crap about "potentially harming someone" being a crime....that excuse can be made for just about anything, whether it be a umbrella being kept in your car or a steak knife you're using a restaurant...both of which could be used as a weapon.

Being intoxicated/impaired removes your ability to make reasonable decisions. Being behind the wheel while drunk is dangerous, and there's NO reason for anyone to argue the point.

Driving a car period is dangerous. You can cause an accident and even kill someone while being sober. I'm even willing to bet that there's more accidents caused by sober drivers than drunk drivers. So.....

I don't know how I can make this question any more simple. How is a crime committed if there's no victim as a result of your actions? How is it a crime if there was no disservice done towards anyone?

Saying "It's a crime because it's preventing harm" can be said for just about anything you do.

Okay, you believe DWI/DUI is NOT a crime when no one's hurt? Am I correct?

Is a driver any more impaired by alcohol than they are when using a phone, eating a burger, changing radio stations, or yelling at their kids?

As long as there's no victim, there's no crime being committed. Who are you victimizing? As in present-tense, not future tense.

There are alternate methods to handling drunk drivers besides issuing out fines and jail time. We have a country of full jails and backed-up lines at the courthouse. We could put better use to taxpayer money than housing DUI offenders and the multitude of government workers that have to do line-control for speeding ticket offenders and marijuana dealers.

In many states you can get a ticket for all of those.

[rams80]

I am steadfastly against any crime where there is no victim. I don't know how much more simpler I can put it. Anything can be construed as "potentially causing a victim". It's not a crime if something "possibly" or "potentially" could happen but doesn't.

I'm not saying I'm all for drunk driving, but I am in favor of other methods to deter drunk driving without it being a burden on the taxpayers by having DUI offenders serve jail time, as well as victimless crimes serving as a police department's moneymaking scheme. We should better educate people, we could raise the driving age, and we could require all drivers to annual (or bi-annual or every 4 years, whatever) driving tests and exams.

On the spot executions it is. Pleasure doing business with you, your family will be billed for the bullet.