Art and or Vandalism

[IceCap]

Cap you've really never even heard of Banksy? Good god, man.

I'm not all that broken up about the fact that I never had to learn the names of any famous graffiti artists.

Okay first of all, peep game: http://www.pinterest.com/brandmooreart/banksy/

I looked the guy up. When you first mentioned him I figured you were just using his last name. Turns out Bansky's an alias. No one knows who he is, exactly. It's very easy to go on about how we should buck authority when you're hiding in the shadows. When he goes out in public, uses his real name, and grabs a megaphone to spread his message let me know.

Secondly, you and Gothamite could not have staw manned this into a more negative direction. Like Means posted, there are some "rules" to the game and taking the phrase "anyone can draw anywhere" to Nazi symbols on gravestones is about as low as it gets. Im sure that wasnt the idea when Banksy was talking about walls.

Hold the phone. I thought Bansky said that people who obey the rules are on par with soldiers who bomb villages?

Regardless, the quote of his that you provided was "imagine a city where graffiti wasn't illegal, a city where everybody could draw whatever they liked." He didn't say "a city where everybody could draw whatever they liked within the bounds of good taste." He made a claim that if there were no rules cities would be awash in beautiful street art. I provided you with examples that prove him wrong. If these people spray paint swastikas on Jewish cemeteries where graffiti isn't legal what makes you think they'll stop if it was suddenly made legal?

Sao Paulo, Madrid, and Barcelona have come to accept the street art scene or at least loosen the reigns. It has become a big tourism boost to those cities. The last thing those cities are, are boring. These things dont take years to make or even months. Most of these guys work over a night. Shepard Fairey does his huge peices in less than a week with his team. And yes there is usually a short life for street art. Weather, power washers, other artist all take their turns on it. But if thats all boring to you then i cant help ya.

Branden, you missed my point. I didn't call street art boring. I simply pointed out that humans adapt to new surroundings and new stimuli very quickly. What's new and exciting today is simply part of he background after a week of seeing it. That's not a judgment on the art. That's just how humans operate.

Id love it if someone had a real reaction to one of my pieces. If its a chuckle from a funny phrase written on a bathroom wall then cool. I dont see whats wrong here. Lower your expectations maybe? Its the small things . . .

Lower my expectations? LOL sure thing man. Whatever.

The 3rd quote is about a way of thinking. I dont know how you came to that conclusion but good artist are certainly rule breakers of all sorts. It was meant to seperate street artist from criminals, not compare you, law biding citizen, to murderers. Honestly man, i think you, and Goth too, see the very worst in everything.

Two things here. First, one can be a street artist and a criminal. If they paint on property that doesn't belong to them, and they don't have permission from the property owners, then they're criminals. What they produced could be a legitimate work of art. It's still criminal though. You don't get a free pass on the law for good feels.

As for the bold text? crlachepinochet is right. I don't see the worst in anything. I'm just a realist. Some people see "realist" as code for "pessimist," but those are the kind of people that equate going after graffiti artists with bombing villages. Truth be told there's been a lot happening in the world recently that gives me a sense of optimism. So Branden, you can make this personal if you want (and I'll oblige if that's how you want to play this) but I'm not looking for the worst in anything here. I'm just pointing out a very naive world view for what it is.

[CS85]

I see the worst in everything. This whole thread is stupid as are all of the participants, with the exception of myself.

[Cosmic]

[Sport Billy]

Imagine a city where graffiti wasn't illegal, a city where everybody could draw whatever they liked. Where every street was awash with a million colours and little phrases. Where standing at a bus stop was never boring. A city that felt like a party where everyone was invited, not just the estate agents and barons of big business. Imagine a city like that and stop leaning against the wall - it's wet. - Banksy

The problem with this nonsense is that it doesn't end.

Who get's to choose what stays and what goes?

You'd end up with "art" on top of "art" on top of "art" which isn't appealing or pretty.

Who wants to live in a world that looks like the walls of Gino's East in Chicago?

Bansky is extremely talented, but he is a criminal and not a realist.

Is he cool with his having spent a week creating art on a public wall only for me to create stick figures over it in my own artistic expression? After all, if "everybody can draw whatever they (sic) liked", his expression is no more valid than mine.

That's nothing I want to see at a bus stop.

If your really interested in beautifying a city, call the city; tell them where you want to create; give them a sketch of what you want to create and offer to do it for free. Anything short of that is criminal. The fact that your tag may have more detail than another taggers tag doesn't make yours any more valid.

[BrandMooreArt]

Cap you've really never even heard of Banksy? Good god, man.

I'm not all that broken up about the fact that I never had to learn the names of any famous graffiti artists.

Okay first of all, peep game: http://www.pinterest.com/brandmooreart/banksy/

I looked the guy up. When you first mentioned him I figured you were just using his last name. Turns out Bansky's an alias. No one knows who he is, exactly. It's very easy to go on about how we should buck authority when you're hiding in the shadows. When he goes out in public, uses his real name, and grabs a megaphone to spread his message let me know.

Secondly, you and Gothamite could not have staw manned this into a more negative direction. Like Means posted, there are some "rules" to the game and taking the phrase "anyone can draw anywhere" to Nazi symbols on gravestones is about as low as it gets. Im sure that wasnt the idea when Banksy was talking about walls.

Hold the phone. I thought Bansky said that people who obey the rules are on par with soldiers who bomb villages?

Regardless, the quote of his that you provided was "imagine a city where graffiti wasn't illegal, a city where everybody could draw whatever they liked." He didn't say "a city where everybody could draw whatever they liked within the bounds of good taste." He made a claim that if there were no rules cities would be awash in beautiful street art. I provided you with examples that prove him wrong. If these people spray paint swastikas on Jewish cemeteries where graffiti isn't legal what makes you think they'll stop if it was suddenly made legal?

Sao Paulo, Madrid, and Barcelona have come to accept the street art scene or at least loosen the reigns. It has become a big tourism boost to those cities. The last thing those cities are, are boring. These things dont take years to make or even months. Most of these guys work over a night. Shepard Fairey does his huge peices in less than a week with his team. And yes there is usually a short life for street art. Weather, power washers, other artist all take their turns on it. But if thats all boring to you then i cant help ya.

Branden, you missed my point. I didn't call street art boring. I simply pointed out that humans adapt to new surroundings and new stimuli very quickly. What's new and exciting today is simply part of he background after a week of seeing it. That's not a judgment on the art. That's just how humans operate.

Id love it if someone had a real reaction to one of my pieces. If its a chuckle from a funny phrase written on a bathroom wall then cool. I dont see whats wrong here. Lower your expectations maybe? Its the small things . . .

Lower my expectations? LOL sure thing man. Whatever.

The 3rd quote is about a way of thinking. I dont know how you came to that conclusion but good artist are certainly rule breakers of all sorts. It was meant to seperate street artist from criminals, not compare you, law biding citizen, to murderers. Honestly man, i think you, and Goth too, see the very worst in everything.

Two things here. First, one can be a street artist and a criminal. If they paint on property that doesn't belong to them, and they don't have permission from the property owners, then they're criminals. What they produced could be a legitimate work of art. It's still criminal though. You don't get a free pass on the law for good feels.

As for the bold text? crlachepinochet is right. I don't see the worst in anything. I'm just a realist. Some people see "realist" as code for "pessimist," but those are the kind of people that equate going after graffiti artists with bombing villages. Truth be told there's been a lot happening in the world recently that gives me a sense of optimism. So Branden, you can make this personal if you want (and I'll oblige if that's how you want to play this) but I'm not looking for the worst in anything here. I'm just pointing out a very naive world view for what it is.

Banksy is an enigma, yes but if you want someone more public then Shepard Fairey is very vocal about the scene. But, the pieces he does these days are comishioned. Cant think of any street artist who will reveal their identity. No one denies what theyre doing is against the law

Banksys quote was about accepting art on buildings. But what Means posted is pretty universialy accepted by the scene. But ok, everyone can di whatever they want. What stops the swastikas? Other artist. Everyone of these guys know their stuff has a short shelf life before they make it. Even if its good. Its certainly not perfect, but i dont think there would be much more of the "bad stuff" in Banksys world then there is now.

I didnt mean to make an ad hominem, thiugh i probably did, but looking where you took the discussion it was straight the the bottom depths. That came off as very pessimistic. Im seeing your argument as almost anti street art even if it were legal. Even if every peice was commishioned and approved i get the sense it wouldnt be very accepted.

[IceCap]

Neo-Nazis who do this kind of crap don't care about the cops or other artists. Making all street art, wherever it's pained, legal would remove the cops as a barrier to them doing it. You'd have to rely on other artists. And I rather have both other artists and cops on the look out for those people.

Anyway I'm not against street art. I'm against illegality. If a work is commissioned, and it's well done, I take no issue with it. If I want one of Bansky's political messages spraypainted on my property I'd be more then willing to pay him to do it (though I get the feeling that's not how he operates).

[DG_ThenNowForever]

That movie "Exit Through the Gift Shop" was pretty great. The guy aping Banksy was a doofus, but did a good job of showing how vapid the street art scene can be.

[nash61]

Your property=art

Not your property=vandalism

Removable (i.e. chalk)=art

Permanent (i.e. paint)=vandalism

Simple as that.

[Buster]

Bomb the city

Vancouver's official slogan!

[FiddySicks]

As someone who grew up with quite a few graffiti artists, and as someone who has dabbled a bit myself, I'll say that.... I don't know. It's a VERY fine line between unnecessary destruction and artistic expression. I usually feel that if it's public property and it's on a dull concrete colored wall, sometimes it can be beneficial. Not only are some of these depictions exquisite in their execution, they also help to brighten a place up and represent a celebration of culture. But on the other hand, if put in the wrong places and done poorly, it can only lead to other forms of vandalism, which are WAY more destructive than graffiti. I believe that when Giuliani was the Mayor of New York City, they had a ZERO tolerance policy for graffiti because of the possibility that it can attract other, more serious crimes.

There is a HUGE difference in the graffiti world between real art and just scribbling on things. EVERY single true street artist I've ever met has a pretty serious distain for those who misrepresent and disrespect the art form, because it is such a touchy subject as it is.

If you're interested in the really talented street artists, check out Banksy, most definitely. There's another guy out there that I've met who calls himself Mear One. He started as a graffiti artist in New york, and has since made quite an impressive career out of it. And his stuff is downright fantastic, too.

Check it out if you're interested in seeing the top levels of the art form

http://www.mearone.com/

I'll also say this. It's hard to really hate on these graffiti artists when large corporations, such as Disney, do all they can to profit on forms of art such as this. They have a whole website, called Bloc28, dedicated to "Street" (AHEM, that's just a fancy word for graffiti) art.

http://www.bloc28.com/

[TheRevTy]

Having spent the past couple of years in Austin, TX, I may have a different view than most. In order to cultivate the "Keep Austin Weird" culture, the city (perhaps not officially, but certainly culturally) encourages street art. There are scavenger hunts that people can take to visit all of the famous bits of street art. Some of them were commissioned by the owner of the building, some were done by the owners themselves, and I assume many were true graffiti, but have been embraced as art.

But more interestingly, there is a large deserted area, no clue what the original use was, but it has become known as the "Art Wall" and is covered with some amazing work. Best I can tell, there is no official policing of what goes on there, but rather it seems the actual artists quickly paint over the offensive or negative work, as evidenced be frequent spots that have been completely whitewashed and painted over. I have never seen an artist there, but everything has been changed every time I have gone. Very interesting concept.