NHL or NBA, what to watch this season ?

[Tigers6884]

JasonFromMiami is a poster to watch in 2015.

How so?

It's the admiral's running joke. You don't want to be a Poster To Watch.

Ah, I see. I knew what he meant, but I didn't know that he was just joking.

[JasonFromMiami]

I don´t understand what´s wrong with liking to be able to see the players, and not liking them being hidden under armor and helmets ?

[JTernup]

You don't need to see the puck, you need to see the carrier. It's amateur hour here.

Seriously.

When I hear/see people with anti-hockey sentiments along these lines in this thread, I don't even bother. And I'm one of the more fervent hockey missionaries you'll find haha. But If that's your baseline about hockey, you know absolutely nothing and I can't help you.

the admiral was responding to my post, so here is my defense.

I wasn't raised as a hockey fan, I attempted to get into it in the same way that I got into basketball before it and soccer later on. My family was only interested in baseball and football for most of my childhood so all 3 of the other sports had equal footing in my mind going into it. I gave each an equal shot and I just don't like the sport of hockey. That obviously accounts for most of the reason I prefer the NBA.

As far as the NHL goes here are other problems I have with it.

-Worst commissioner in sports.

-Constant shuffling and relocation (rumors) of teams which other leagues haven't had recently.

-Continually allowing failed markets to fail while moving teams from good markets. Phoenix and Florida verse Quebec and Winnipeg

-Hockey in Colorado sucks, this is why I don't like the Avalanche. (the fans ONLY care when the team is good)

-There is not as much parity as hockey fans act like (More than the NBA but still not great, It seems like Chicago and LA are just trading Western Conference championships.)

-A goalie can take over and almost single handedly win a series (just like an NBA star)

-It is not on TV as much the other sports (Nationally televised games)

-Too many lock outs in recent years, it is hard to get behind a sport that misses so much time.

[IceCap]

-Worst commissioner in sports.

Fair enough.

-Constant shuffling and relocation (rumors) of teams which other leagues haven't had recently.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24779844

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/City-Raiders-fund-poll-to-gauge-San-Antonio-s-5811435.php

http://www.sportslogos.net/logos/list_by_team/2687/Oklahoma_City_Thunder/

http://www.sportslogos.net/logos/list_by_team/578/Washington_Nationals/

-Continually allowing failed markets to fail while moving teams from good markets. Phoenix and Florida verse Quebec and Winnipeg

Fair enough, but that loops back to the worst Commissioner thing. Also, the league is back in Winnipeg after dumping Atlanta. They're still in Glendale and Sunrise, but one thing at a time.

I also find it funny how the NHL can't win here. You rightfully bash them for sticking with failed markets like Glendale and Sunrise, yet if they move to rectify those situations you bash them for relocation.

-Hockey in Colorado sucks, this is why I don't like the Avalanche. (the fans ONLY care when the team is good)

The Avs won two Stanley Cups in five years. If that wasn't going to make you a fan nothing will. Colorado couldn't have been gifted a better team.

-There is not as much parity as hockey fans act like (More than the NBA but still not great, It seems like Chicago and LA are just trading Western Conference championships.)

We haven't had back to back Stanley Cup champions since the 1996-97/1997-98 seasons.

-A goalie can take over and almost single handedly win a series (just like an NBA star)

And a hot pitcher can almost single handedly win a series in baseball. And a hot quarterback or running back can win a game in football. What's your point?

-It is not on TV as much the other sports (Nationally televised games)

NBC paid a lot of money (relatively speaking) for the NHL. The league's the centrepiece of NBC Sports. You don't have to go out of your way to find the NHL on tv in the United States.

-Too many lock outs in recent years, it is hard to get behind a sport that misses so much time.

Fair enough, but I again point you in the direction of the "worst Commissioner in sports."

Look, if you just don't like hockey that's fine. Just don't make up a list of bs excuses about why you think it sucks.

[DS729]

I don´t understand what´s wrong with liking to be able to see the players, and not liking them being hidden under armor and helmets ?

Did we say there was anything wrong with it?

[monkeypower]

I don´t understand what´s wrong with liking to be able to see the players, and not liking them being hidden under armor and helmets ?

Did we say there was anything wrong with it?

I said I thought it was weird, I didn't think there was anything wrong with it. Just that it's weird.

[Sport]

I understand not liking things, because I don’t like a lot of things, basketball included. What I don’t understand is not liking hockey because hockey is awesome. Hockey is the sport you'd invent if you were a kid inventing a sport. Hockey is the futuristic sport they'd play in a movie set in the future. Except it's real and it's here now.

Regarding your issues with hockey:

- I’m a baseball and football fan and the commissioners have been garbage in both leagues for the entirety of my fanhood. Hasn't affected my interest in the sports.

- The NHL has had as many franchise relocations in the last 20 years as the NFL and NBA. The NBA has actually had more if you count all of the identity switches.

- There are also weak markets in the NBA.

- LOL. The NBA fan bases are so fickle it’s ridiculous. The fans ONLY care when the team is good with most franchises in sports. That’s not unique to the NHL.

- NHL parity is at a good level. If too few franchises dominate for an extended period of time that’s bad, but having too many teams winning is also not entertaining. You have to have a balance and I think the NHL is closer to that balance than any other league.

- Half of a goalie’s success in hockey is the defense’s play in front of him. Behind every hot goalie is a defense who is playing well. Also, someone has to score at the other end. It’s just like in baseball. A hot pitcher only works if the team plays defense and scores runs for him.

- This is the best time there's ever been to be a hockey fan. The internet is a great resource, NBCSN has good coverage, and finding games isn’t that tough if you know where to look. So ESPN doesn’t cover it? Who gives a ? ESPN is garbage and the NHL not being on the network means I’m not forced to watch their garbage network. I prefer the league isn’t on the worldwide leader. I like that the NHL doesn't have a Tebow, Favre, Lebron, Kobe, Johnny Football that espen can overcover until we're all sick of him.

- The lockouts are annoying, but the NBA had one a few years ago, the NFL was consumed by labor talk a couple years ago as well, and baseball cancelled the World Series. It’s not the only league with labor strife.

[JTernup]

Ice_Cap and McCarthy, you both make great points and respond well to what I said but something neither of you can account for is the fact that I wasn't raised on hockey. It didn't hook me organically, I never played it, and I thought I would give it a chance. Once I gave it that fair chance those are the things that bothered me about hockey. I know many of those things are present in at least one of the other leagues, if not all of them.

I'm just not all that interested in hockey which is why I commented on the faults of the NHL, not the NBA. (they both have plenty) I thought listing the reasons I stayed away from hockey would best answer Jason's question because he, like me doesn't currently have much of an interest in hockey.

I don't hate hockey or the NHL, I just don't enjoy watching it, so I don't.

P.S. just to clarify two of my points, IC it is not that the NHL can't win in my eyes (re: bad markets and relocation) but rather that I wish the league's teams were more stable and that they had never put themselves in that position. The entire sun belt relocations seem like a failure to me.

Calgary and Winnipeg > Atlanta

Minnesota > Dallas

Hartford > Carolina

and Nashville, Phoenix and Florida are all just as bad.

My point was that there are too many teams that are (or recently were) in horrible markets... ATL, PHX, & FLA especially.

As far as why the Avs didn't hook me, I was born in 1994 so the '96 title didn't hook me and the '01 title I wasn't even aware they were in it until after they won. (Colorado sports coverage sucks, and I didn't even know anybody who liked hockey.)

Again... it's great that you guys enjoy it, and I can definitely see reasons to love the sport, I just don't. I just wanted to share some reasons why the NHL was unable to pull in somebody who was only mildly interested in the sport.

[IceCap]

P.S. just to clarify two of my points, IC it is not that the NHL can't win in my eyes (re: bad markets and relocation) but rather that I wish the league's teams were more stable and that they had never put themselves in that position. The entire sun belt relocations seem like a failure to me.

Well a few things. First off it hasn't been a total failure. Losing the North Stars did suck, but the NHL is in a better position with strong markets like Tampa and Dallas. Nashville's weird because it went from being a dumpster fire on the level of Arizona and Florida to being a "burgeoning Sunbelt success" after a mean man from Canada threatened to move them to Hamilton. Point being, the jury's still out on Nashville. Carolina has a nice, stable niche, though the team could have been more in Hartford. Still, not a disaster there. Arizona, Florida, and Atlanta (near the end) certainly were failures though.

The second point. Yes, the NHL shouldn't have put themselves into those positions in the first place. They weren't the only league to go chasing the Sunbelt housing boom though. The NFL was so desperate to chase that market they put a team in fricken Jacksonville. MLB stuck teams in Miami and Tampa, both of which have had attendance issues. So it's not like the NHL is alone in making bad decisions when it comes to where they're putting their teams.

As far as why the Avs didn't hook me, I was born in 1994 so the '96 title didn't hook me and the '01 title I wasn't even aware they were in it until after they won. (Colorado sports coverage sucks, and I didn't even know anybody who liked hockey.)

Those Avs teams had some of the greatest players of all time, including arguably the best goalie of all time.

Again... it's great that you guys enjoy it, and I can definitely see reasons to love the sport, I just don't. I just wanted to share some reasons why the NHL was unable to pull in somebody who was only mildly interested in the sport.

That's fine. I just rather people say "you know what, it's not for me." That's reason enough really. It just bugs me when people go out of their way to trash hockey with reasoning that could just as easily be applied to any other sport.

[JTernup]

I normally make a point to NOT talk about hockey for that very reason. I just thought my insight from the "other side" would be valuable in this thread.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

I used to like hockey but now I kind of don't. Not because there's anything wrong with the game, more because the team I like (the Sabres) has been bad for so long, it's impossible to watch games, and I've essentially replaced NHL viewing with MLS viewing. Also I prefer NBA to NHL for a variety of reasons, none of which are because hockey sux lol.

I will say that I read The Instigator earlier this year, and I did live through the Coyotes/Seattle/Arizona firemen saga of last summer, so I'm kind of put off the league (not the sport!) for the moment. Hockey is a great game, but its stewardship perhaps less so.

[wildwing64]

The NHL sucks to watch on TV, it's hard to see the puck

It may be smaller than the projectiles of other sports except baseball, but the puck's not that hard to follow. This coming from a guy who's spent the last decade watching low-res NHL highlights on his laptop.

[Cosmic]

The thing about the Canadian relocations in the 90's is that the Canadian dollar was worth roughly 2/3 of the American dollar. Now they're roughly on par. It was tough for those small market Canadian franchises. I'm not convinced it was entirely the big bad NHL. Certainly they didn't mind chasing the exurban development in the desert and whatnot, but they did also expand to Canada in the 90's.

[The_Admiral]

Canadian dollar was low, Canadian governments believe in financially assisting citizens before corporations (in America it's the opposite), and they were WHA teams that heritage owners only accepted under protest (literally: Canadians stopped buying Molson). Nevertheless, the NHL should have recognized that Canada was its bread and butter and fought for those teams.

[sportstar1212]

Quebec was also in such deep :censored: economically that they couldn't even afford to keep hospitals open, let alone bailout the Nordiques.

[IceCap]

Yeah. I don't think anyone can fault the government of Quebec on that one. I just think it's sad that Bettman will move mountains to keep the Coyotes in Glendale yet when the Jets and Nords were up for relocation he actually made it easier for them to move. It's clear what he wanted, and continues to want. And that's a NHL presence in the Sunbelt. Whether anyone in those markets actually cares or not.

[Stampman]

That you chose that of all things as your objection to the NBA leads me to believe that you are.

It's a joke, nothing really meant by it.

I've tried watching the NBA, just can't get into it.

[Jer15]

I thought this would be a great topic to jump in on for me. I was born and raised on hockey. I've been playing the sport as far back as I can remember.

Basketball on the other hand, I played a bit in high school but didn't really start playing it until about 2 years ago. In that time I'm become a much bigger fan of the NBA, mostly because I feel like I'm watching something I understand now as opposed to 2 teams trading points back and forth.

That said, although hockey is still hands down my favorite sport to play, I've lost interest in the NHL over the past few years (mostly due to the 2 most recent lockouts and how sick am I of the media blowing the small stuff out of proportion when it comes to the Leafs) and I'm finding it hard to get back into it.

Then again, the original post was by a guy from Miami, so the Leafs factor may not ruin it.

Hockey is a great sport. It's combines a number of skills (not saying basketball doesn't) in a unique setting. I mean who thought "let's put a steel blade on our boot and shoot hard rubber at a net?". for that reason alone I say "give hockey a shot". Even if you don't find the NHL to be your brand, personally I prefer watching junior hockey.