MLB: The Defunct Saga - Bibliography Added

[SFGiants58]

15 hours ago, JH42XCC said:

I only see the blue cap variant for the Milwaukee alternates. In fact, they're posted twice.

 

Thanks! It's fixed now.

 

14 hours ago, coco1997 said:

The updated serif on the Fremont "F" is a definite improvement.

 

I actually like the gold scripts on the SJ A's but only on the home set. The gold would also probably work better with hunter green:



Your updated Cardinals relocations look great, too. Looking forward to see what you do with Utah!

 

Thanks! Limiting the gold to the home set does look better, as does using the dark green. It isn't exactly a common motherboard color, but the contrast is far improved.

 

12 hours ago, Coiler said:

Love the idea of the Houston Cardinals as one of those "seems crazy now, but would feel natural (if not inevitable) if it was actually done in the past" teams. 

 

Indeed.

 

Anyway, here's the next entry! I'd like to give a big shout-out to @DustDevil61 for telling me about this one.

 

SALT LAKE TWINS – The Layover Buzz

 

Remember that time the Twins considered moving to North Carolina? After the Horneytown effort failed in that May 5, 1998 referendum, NationsBank and their CEO Hugh McColl Jr. partnered with Don Beaver (the guy behind the Horneytown mess) and proposed a new idea. The Twins would move to Charlotte, with a two-year layover at the Charlotte Knights’ then-stadium in Fort Mill, South Carolina. That would give the group enough time to build an uptown park for the club in Charlotte proper. NationsBank had some credibility, as they had led the effort to bring the NFL to Charlotte. By May 27, McColl had made it public that he wanted to bring to Charlotte.¹

 

Carl Pohlad, the Twins’ notorious owner, was still wafting back and forth between selling the team and demanding a renegotiated lease at the Metrodome. The continued flirtations with North Carolina only exacerbated tensions between Minneapolis/Minnesota governments and Pohlad (including a court hearing regarding the lease on the Metrodome). By June/July, McColl became frustrated with the Twins’ indecision, pressuring Pohlad to sell and get the move underway.²

 

But what does this have to do with Salt Lake, you might ask? Well, during the time of indecision, The Pioneer Press got a hold of a report that McColl/Beaver would use Salt Lake as a temporary location instead of the Knights’ park. It made sense, as Smith’s Ballpark was in the better location (only a ten-minute drive from downtown, as opposed to being in a separate state) and the Salt Lake Buzz were the Twins’ AAA affiliate. Salt Lake officials were somewhat surprised and unsupportive of the plan, with Joe Buzas (the Buzz’s owner) calling it “asinine.” Said plan would have the Twins as a temporary tenant of the Buzz’s park during the two-year construction of the uptown Charlotte stadium.³

 

Ultimately, it didn’t matter, as Pohlad got a new lease on the Metrodome later in 1998. While it kept the Twins in Minnesota, it prevented one very goofy layover situation. For those that don’t know, Smith’s Ballpark only seats 14,500. Also, Salt Lake’s metro area was only 1.1 million in 1998, far smaller than any MLB market. Even with its awful location, the Knights’ stadium in Fort Mill would make more sense. While Buzas of the Salt Lake Buzz (later Stingers, now the Bees) thought MLB baseball could eventually come to Salt Lake City, it is very unlikely. The Bees do have an MLB-tier identity, which is a marked improvement over the Brandiose trash strewn throughout the league.⁴

 

TL;DR: McColl/Beaver as Father Dougal and the temporary stadium plan as the bunnies.

 

 

As for the identity, my thought process was to do something very “temporary” and transitional (e.g., using the 2010 cleaned-up wordmark style, but sticking with road pinstripes and the “m” cap). The logos feature an “SL” made in the style of the Bees’ cap logo, while the tertiary is a recolored Salt Lake Buzz logo in a roundel.

 

 

The uniforms follow the ’87-’09 Twins pretty closely, aside from the updated wordmarks. The two-color “SL” is on the home jersey, while the primary logo appears on the road sleeve.

 

 

The alternates include a navy alternate and a sly tribute to the Salt Lake Bees/Buzz of the past. The navy/yellow-gold coloring of the Buzz returns here, along with a classic Twins-styled “Salt Lake” script. I kept the NOB, since no-NOB alternates/cream jerseys weren’t enough of a “thing” back then to justify it.

 

 

The jackets are fairly basic, with the Rockwell “SL” appearing on the heritage jacket. I like using Rockwell as the Twins’ font, albeit not the Condensed Bold variant that the classic Hornets used.

 

 

 

All in all, it’s a pretty basic transitional look and a lead-in to my Carolina Twins design, which I’ll be revising for a Charlotte team.

 

Because I don't feel like I went far enough, I've also got a navy/yellow-gold-teal recolor (the Buzz's colors, but with more teal).

 

EDIT: I fixed the original logo sheet's orange "S," per @coco1997 note. Here is the original (alternates too, as that had an error).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Up next, said revision of the Carolina Twins for a Charlotte endeavor and then the last two A's stories (finally).

 

---

¹ Foon Rhee, “Can Charlotte Make the Play?,” Charlotte Observer, The, May 7, 1998, sec. Main News, Access World News; Foon Rhee, “McColl: Charlotte Ready for Baseball,” Charlotte Observer, The, May 22, 1998, sec. Metro, Access World News.

 

² Associated Press, “Report: Twins Try to Work out New Lease,” Dallas Morning News, The, July 20, 1998, sec. Sports Day, Access World News; From staff and wire reports, “Twins’ Case Moves to Court,” News & Observer, The, July 20, 1998, sec. Sports, Access World News; Deseret News Special, “Twins Owner Mulls Deal to Keep Team in Minnesota,” Deseret News, The, July 19, 1998, sec. Sports, Access World News; Foon Rhee, “Baseball Boosters Give Twins a Deadline,” Charlotte Observer, The, July 9, 1998, sec. Metro, Access World News; Foon Rhee and The St. Paul Pioneer Press contributed to this article., “Twins Still on the Fence over Moving,” Charlotte Observer, The, July 21, 1998, sec. Metro, Access World News.

 

³ Dirk Facer, “Major League Baseball in S.L.? Not Yet,” Deseret News, The, July 18, 1998, sec. Sports, Access World News; Terry Frei, “Salt Lake Mentioned as a New Twins City,” Denver Post, The, August 10, 1998, sec. Sports, Access World News; Phil Miller, “Salt Lake Baseball Could See a ‘Major’ Change,” Salt Lake Tribune, The, June 17, 2001, sec. Sports, Access World News; Salt Lake Bees, “Salt Lake Bees - Contact Us,” MiLB.com, accessed November 12, 2021, https://www.milb.com/salt-lake/ballpark/contact-us.

 

⁴ Associated Press, “Twins Get a New Lease on Their Metrodome Life,” Deseret News, The, July 23, 1998, sec. Sports, Access World News; Facer, “Major League Baseball in S.L.? Not Yet”; Frei, “Salt Lake Mentioned as a New Twins City”; Miller, “Salt Lake Baseball Could See a ‘Major’ Change.”

 

 

[heavybass]

Story has a real buzz to it.

[coco1997]

I really love the inclusion of teal in the second set because it reminds me of the Twins' original primary logo. 

 

Speaking of the second set, I think yellow scripts & numbers on a pinstriped road uniform might be a bit too much. Maybe try out the road set in plain gray with the same style piping as the alternate. Might help with legibility issues, too. 

 

P.S. I think you mistakenly made the "S" in the alternate monogram orange instead of yellow. 

Great work as always! 

[maxwasson]

I'd like to see @SFGiants58 do a take on the defunct Kansas City Cowboys franchise which technically had several iterations include a 1-year stint in the MLB (which was still called the National League). A modernized set for a Royals rebrand/Expansion team in KCK would be interesting.

[heavybass]

Any other fictional teams in the works?

[Coiler]

Nice work! Always like to see teal on sports uniforms.

[The_Admiral]

I didn't know anything about SLC and the Twins. Really interesting!

 

I like it, but I would guess that they'd repurpose the old Salt Lake script for the roads rather than try to match the old Twins script. The Minnesota script never matched then, after all.

[teeray01]

On 11/13/2021 at 4:29 PM, heavybass said:

Any other fictional teams in the works?

Other locations like Nashville, Vancouver, Buffalo or other plausible expansion or relocation candidates would be interesting.

[Coiler]

I must admit that having the Twins be moved to the more sensible location of Charlotte takes away a lot of the quirky "uh, they were going to put the stadium there" appeal of the original Carolina Twins/Triplets.

[DustDevil61]

This is a great look. It’s very odd to see the Twins name be used for anywhere else besides Minnesota or Carolina, even on a temporary basis.

 

That said, you nailed this concept! I feel that if Salt Lake were to ever get an MLB team—I’m not counting on it—they would have similar colors to Navy/Gold/Teal (i.e., adding a touch of Teal or Light Blue to the excellent Bees identity).

[SFGiants58]

On 11/13/2021 at 2:12 PM, coco1997 said:

I really love the inclusion of teal in the second set because it reminds me of the Twins' original primary logo. 

 

Speaking of the second set, I think yellow scripts & numbers on a pinstriped road uniform might be a bit too much. Maybe try out the road set in plain gray with the same style piping as the alternate. Might help with legibility issues, too. 

 

P.S. I think you mistakenly made the "S" in the alternate monogram orange instead of yellow. 

Great work as always! 

 

Thanks! I do find that the non-pinstriped version is better-looking.

 

 

On 11/13/2021 at 2:24 PM, maxwasson said:

I'd like to see @SFGiants58 do a take on the defunct Kansas City Cowboys franchise which technically had several iterations include a 1-year stint in the MLB (which was still called the National League). A modernized set for a Royals rebrand/Expansion team in KCK would be interesting.

 

On 11/13/2021 at 7:26 PM, the admiral said:

I didn't know anything about SLC and the Twins. Really interesting!

 

I like it, but I would guess that they'd repurpose the old Salt Lake script for the roads rather than try to match the old Twins script. The Minnesota script never matched then, after all.

 

Thanks! I just prefer matching home and roads with the Twins, so I go out of my way to include it. An arched block would be too boring.

 

On 11/16/2021 at 8:25 AM, DustDevil61 said:

This is a great look. It’s very odd to see the Twins name be used for anywhere else besides Minnesota or Carolina, even on a temporary basis.

 

That said, you nailed this concept! I feel that if Salt Lake were to ever get an MLB team—I’m not counting on it—they would have similar colors to Navy/Gold/Teal (i.e., adding a touch of Teal or Light Blue to the excellent Bees identity).

 

Thanks and thank you for encouraging this story! I found it to be a fun little aside in the Twins-to-NC saga. Also, you're right in that the teal/light blue would be a nice addition to the Bees' set (reducing the Pirates comparisons).

 

Speaking of North Carolina, I've got the Charlotte-ized Carolina Twins ready. I moved the star over to Charlotte.

 

 

 

I added a 1956 Hornets-styled jersey, as well as a tribute to the Twins' later powder blue set.

 

 

 

I've also done up this design in Hornets-styled purple/teal/powder blue.

 

 

 

Up next, the first of the A's final two real destinations (I have some LOLJK concepts ready to go also).

[coco1997]

I agree the non-pinstriped road set for the Salt Lake Twins is better.
 

I love that Hornets-colored second set. Even though it's for a Charlotte-based team, something about it feels Minnesota. 

[Frylock]

As always, INCREDIBLE work. From the research into the stories, and the approach to the concepts, I truly live for all of the content in this thread. 
 

Now... anyone else notice that these last two alternate locations both resulted in heritage throwbacks connected to similar insects??

[sky1324]

As bland as the name "Carolina Twins" is, you've made it work. I'd love it if the team dropped the boring RWB and swapped to teal and purple if they had moved. I'd still be happy to have MLB in Charlotte, but I'd rather see a "promotion" of the Charlotte Knights than anything with "Carolina" or stealing another city's team.

[SFGiants58]

2 hours ago, coco1997 said:

I agree the non-pinstriped road set for the Salt Lake Twins is better.
 

I love that Hornets-colored second set. Even though it's for a Charlotte-based team, something about it feels Minnesota. 

 

Thanks! Purple/teal does work well for Minnesota, now that you mention it. Maybe a good idea for a Wild third?

 

2 hours ago, Frylock said:

As always, INCREDIBLE work. From the research into the stories, and the approach to the concepts, I truly live for all of the content in this thread. 
 

Now... anyone else notice that these last two alternate locations both resulted in heritage throwbacks connected to similar insects??

 

Thanks! I'm glad you're liking the series. I also noticed the insect connection, which is kinda fun.

 

1 hour ago, QCS said:

As bland as the name "Carolina Twins" is, you've made it work. I'd love it if the team dropped the boring RWB and swapped to teal and purple if they had moved. I'd still be happy to have MLB in Charlotte, but I'd rather see a "promotion" of the Charlotte Knights than anything with "Carolina" or stealing another city's team.

 

Thanks! Agreed, I'd much rather a Charlotte expansion team be the Charlotte Knights and not be a "Carolina" club (I'm one of those pro-"Charlotte Panthers" guys). I'm still pretty happy with my design for them.

 

Anyway, onto Las Vegas!

 

LAS VEGAS ATHLETICS – (Kelly and Athletic) Gold Rush

 

While it may seem like A’s-to-Vegas is a recent phenomenon, it in fact goes back about 25 years. The story begins in 1995, with the construction of Mount Davis at the Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum. Delays with the building forced the Athletics to play their first home series of 1996 outside of Oakland. While New Orleans was a candidate (as the Superdome could still host baseball), Las Vegas’ Cashman Field proved to be the spot. While reactions to the move were a mixed bag and the games themselves were uneventful (aside from an abundance of scoring runs), some saw it as promising for Vegas’ MLB prospects.¹

 

 

(An Elvis impersonator at Cashman Field in 1996)²

 

The Las Vegas experience did inspire Schott/Hoffman to explore the city as a potential new home in 1998. While the club still preferred San José as their future home, Steve Kettmann wrote:

 

Quote

But the rapid expansion of Las Vegas, the fastest-growing city in the country over the past 10 years, has turned it into a possible big-league city. The area is expected to grow from 1.2 million to 2 million within the decade. That is why the A's commissioned the study more than a year ago and why Las Vegas is on a list of cites [sic] being considered as a possible home for the A's, along with San Jose and Sacramento.³

 

While the study was non-committal, it did demonstrate that the A’s and Las Vegas baseball officials had aspirations to bring MLB to the city. This was also around the time that MLB folks (notably Peter Angelos) were advocating for contraction or relocating teams with low attendance. The A’s did have attendance problems (mostly from Schott/Hoffman penny-pinching and the rise of the post-Lurie Giants), so it would make sense to include them in the relocation talks. Ultimately, the whole thing boiled down to a backup plan in the negotiation for a Coliseum lease adjustment (the A’s would go year-to-year on the lease after 2001). While Las Vegas became a part of the Expos’ search for a new home and the Marlins Park negotiation tactics in the mid- ‘00s, the topic of Las Vegas MLB wouldn’t become a bigger issue until 2019.⁴

 

With the arrival of the Golden Knights in 2017, Las Vegas became “big league.” The lower stigma around sports gambling (straight-up sponsoring leagues) and the Raiders leaving for Sin City (because Oakland wouldn’t fully fund a new stadium for Mark “Bam Bam” Davis) gave Las Vegas appeal for MLB. Even the Diamondbacks investigated Vegas to have leverage in lease negotiations with Maricopa County! It would seem the perfect potential location for the A’s. The first moves of this phase began with Commissioner Rob Manfred met with Oakland Mayor Libby Schaff. Manfred made clear to Schaff that the A’s would relocate if a stadium deal couldn’t be completed, with Las Vegas being a potential landing spot.⁵

 

The Athletics’ top brass started visiting Las Vegas in 2021 (after receiving MLB permission in May), making it clear that Las Vegas was their alternate choice if “Howard Terminal or bust” (as team president Dave Kaval put it) failed. These visits have worked towards the favor of getting a few steps done for a Howard Terminal stadium. However, the A’s have also selected three potential sites in Las Vegas/Henderson. These include: the south end of the Vegas strip, the Festival Grounds, and the former site of the Rio All-Suite and Casino. Las Vegas is the first truly serious relocation threat for the A’s in many years and one that could easily happen. While Vegas is not an ideal location (e.g., running out of water), the team is doing their due diligence with this location. It’s the perfect threat to get an Oakland stadium done.⁶

 

TL;DR:

(Of course, the combination of Blackadder and Las Vegas gives you the movie Rat Race, which I’d argue is underappreciated.)

 

The adjustments for Las Vegas aim to make the team more colorful. Kelly Green returns, paired with relatively equal amounts of Athletic Gold. Additionally, the elephant logo now features an Ace of Spades and an “LV” insignia.

 

 

The home and road set features a balance between Athletic Gold and Kelly Green, aiming for brightness above all else.

 

 

The alternate jerseys include a gold and green top, with the latter featuring an “Athletics” script.

 

 

A second set of alternates includes an “LV” cap and a ‘60s throwback.

 

 

The jackets are pretty standard fare for the series at this point.

 

 

 

 

Emphasizing gold is my suggestion for Las Vegas, to brighten up the look and differentiate them from the Oakland days. C+C is appreciated, as always!

 

Up next, the other popular A’s relocation destination.

 

¹ Ray Brewer, “A’s Six-Game Cameo in 1996 Only Whet Our Appetite for MLB in the Valley - Las Vegas Sun Newspaper,” Las Vegas Sun, May 20, 2021, https://lasvegassun.com/news/2021/may/20/as-six-game-cameo-in-1996-only-whet-our-appetite-f/; Steve Kettmann, “Rough Road Trip for A’s - Schedule Switch Puts Pressure at Start of Season,” San Francisco Chronicle, March 19, 1996, sec. Sports, Access World News; Steve Kettmann, “Las Vegas, New Orleans Make Pitches to the A’s,” San Francisco Chronicle, March 20, 1996, sec. Sports, Access World News; Steve Kettmann, “A’s to Vegas; Alderson Irate - GM Confirms 6 Home Games Moved, Snaps at Politicos,” San Francisco Chronicle, March 21, 1996, sec. Sports, Access World News; Scott Ostler, “This Vegas Opening Is a Bad Act,” San Francisco Chronicle, March 25, 1996, sec. Sports, Access World News; Scott Ostler, “A’s Will Have a Blast At Cozy Cashman,” San Francisco Chronicle, April 1, 1996, sec. Sports, Access World News.

 

² Brewer, “A’s Six-Game Cameo in 1996 Only Whet Our Appetite for MLB in the Valley - Las Vegas Sun Newspaper.”

 

³ Steve Kettmann, “A’s Eye Vegas as Viable Home - City Seen as Big Enough to Carry Big-League Ball,” San Francisco Chronicle, March 19, 1998, sec. Sports, Access World News.

 

⁴ Associated Press, “Athletics Studying Las Vegas as Future Home,” Associated Press Archive, March 19, 1998, Access World News, https://infoweb.newsbank.com/apps/news/document-view?p=AWNB&docref=news/0F8B566098AC61A7; Rob Gloster, “A’s Trigger Year-to-Year Stadium Lease Clause,” Associated Press Archive, October 24, 1998, Access World News, https://infoweb.newsbank.com/apps/news/document-view?p=AWNB&docref=news/0F8B6E6975695C63; Rob Gloster, “A’s to Stay in Oakland for at Least Three More Seasons,” Associated Press Archive, December 3, 1998, Access World News, https://infoweb.newsbank.com/apps/news/document-view?p=AWNB&docref=news/0F8B7200925047B2; Kettmann, “A’s Eye Vegas as Viable Home - City Seen as Big Enough to Carry Big-League Ball”; Steve Kettmann, “Angelos’ Bold Idea Could Put A’s on Go,” San Francisco Chronicle, April 24, 1998, sec. Sports, Access World News.

 

⁵ Shea Johnson, “Documents Suggest Diamondbacks, Las Vegas Held Secret Talks about Relocation,” Las Vegas Review-Journal (blog), September 12, 2019, https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/local-las-vegas/documents-suggest-diamondbacks-las-vegas-held-secret-talks-about-relocation-1847183/; Jeff Passan, “Rob Manfred: ‘Las Vegas Could Be a Viable Market for Us.’ Says Legalized Gambling Is Not an Issue.,” Twitter, February 21, 2017, https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/834154592736858113.

 

⁶ Mick Akers, “No Plan for Oakland A’s Move to Las Vegas, MLB Commissioner Says | Las Vegas Review-Journal,” Las Vegas Review-Journal (blog), October 8, 2019, https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/baseball/mlb-commissioner-says-no-plan-to-move-oakland-as-to-las-vegas-1866316/; Mick Akers, “A’s Brass to Make 2nd Trip to Las Vegas next Week,” Las Vegas Review-Journal (blog), June 15, 2021, https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/baseball/as-brass-to-make-2nd-trip-to-las-vegas-next-week-2378286/; Matt Kawahara, “Kaval: A’s to Narrow Choices for Las Vegas Ballpark Sites after MLB Postseason,” San Francisco Chronicle, September 18, 2021, https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/athletics/article/Kaval-A-s-to-narrow-choices-for-Las-Vegas-16468599.php; Kevin Reichard, “A’s to Narrow Field of Vegas Sites after Playoffs; Three Sites Cited by Locals,” Ballpark Digest (blog), September 22, 2021, https://ballparkdigest.com/2021/09/22/as-to-narrow-field-of-vegas-sites-after-playoffs-three-sites-cited-by-locals/; Shayna Rubin and Annie Sciacca, “Other Cities Have Come Calling since MLB Blessed A’s Possible Move out of Oakland, Team President Says,” East Bay Times (blog), May 13, 2021, https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/05/12/mayor-says-mlb-has-discussed-as-relocation-to-las-vegas-since-2019.

 

[sky1324]

Agreed on your Knights design, easily my (biased) favorite team you've done. Loving the Vegas A's, I hate the idea but the design is sharp. Props for kelly green, as well.

[ManillaToad]

4 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

 

 

I added a 1956 Hornets-styled jersey, as well as a tribute to the Twins' later powder blue set.

 

 

 

Oh man that tertiary Carolinas logo is amazing

[Coiler]

The Hornets/Twins look amazing and the Vegas A's comes across as both "Las Vegas" and "Athletics".

[heavybass]

Hmmmm always wondered if a Vegas Gold be appliable to the Vegas A's....?

[coco1997]

2 hours ago, heavybass said:

Hmmmm always wondered if a Vegas Gold be appliable to the Vegas A's....?

I was wondering the same thing.

 

Vegas A’s look great. Love that “Las Vegas” script.