Sport Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said: The “half-step” was the right step. If you think throwing out one of the most famous brands in sports because you're afforded with 20 years of hindsight (because you would surely not make this proclamation if they'd won since 99) and because of some hang-up with the way the team was reassembled then that's your right. I'm gonna say going with one of the most famous brands in sports was the right move, even with 20 years of losing associated with it. 2 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said: They got what they wanted, but at what cost? Having your NFL team is better than having an NFL team who would be just as bad except they'd be called something silly? 2 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said: True, but it’s not like it helped. it has next to nothing to do with why they can't win games. 2 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said: True, but it’s also giving the city a fresh start. which Ottawa needed because the team wasn't nearly as beloved as the Cleveland Browns. This is such an apples-oranges comparison. 2 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said: A fair point, but I don’t see it happening. I don't think the Cleveland Browns winning a Super Bowl at some point is some far-fetched impossible fantasy. They're one of 32 NFL teams. It's not like they're like a MAC school who's trying to make the college football playoff. That's impossible. 2 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said: It’s more akin to the Vikings than what they are now, which is the Lions, Cardinals, and (because they’re an expansion team) Jaguars. You said the current team is tarnishing the legacy of the old Browns as justification that they should've chosen a different name in 1999. I'm telling you it wasn't in pristine condition when they went back to it in 1999. It was their name, though. 2 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said: Not really, no. Now you're just being deliberately obtuse. 2 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said: Yeah, they got the NFL to give them special treatment. Which doesn't mean anything. It's still the same franchise. 2 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said: Yes, but when has “law of averages” truly worked in the NFL? Aside from two key examples in the Saints and Patriots that a Browns-like franchise can fix their fortunes and become regular championship contenders - the Eagles, Giants, Bears, Broncos, Buccaneers, Colts, Rams, and Seahawks to name a few, all had periods of extended losing and "it'll never happen" feelings before winning their championships. Multiple titles in some of their cases. It's a silly argument! Any team can put it together and win the Super Bowl. Even the Browns, as much as it would bother me. 2 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said: The Cardinals, Lions, Jets, Jaguars, and Bengals have never truly “figured it out.” That doesn't mean they never will, though. You can't imagine a crazy universe where the Bengals beat the 49ers in either of those Super Bowls or the Cardinals beat the Steelers in their Super Bowl? It's not really that far-fetched. If it narrowly happened before it's not insanity to believe that they could get back and win. That's a silly reason to think the Browns should change their name because you think the Cleveland Lake Sharks would have better luck. 2 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said: It would be just as fun, because the Browns are either boring or awful. No, it's fun watching Browns fans squirm. It's fun when they think they're good like this season and then get drop-kicked back down to Earth. It's fun when they storm out of their stadium and rip up their jerseys. It's fun when they do Money Manziel fingers and then get destroyed 31-0. It's fun when they're 7-4 and then lose 5 straight to miss the playoffs. And as much as I hate them, it would be fun to watch my friends bask in the glow of a Super Bowl win (provided my team wins one first). It really isn't as fun without them. I know because I was there with them and without them and with them again. 2 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said: Nah. Cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFGiants58 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 I guess I’m in the wrong here. Cleveland fans’ feelings are more important than the record books or allowing their expansion team to be an expansion team. Either way, I stand by what I said, even if it is wrong by your standards. MLB: Project 32 (Complete), MLB: The Defunct Saga (Complete) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glover Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said: Cleveland fans’ feelings are more important than the record books You're the one that is blatantly ignoring what the record books actually say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFGiants58 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 minute ago, selby56 said: You're the one that is blatantly ignoring what the record books actually say. That Cleveland forced the NFL to change, BTW. MLB: Project 32 (Complete), MLB: The Defunct Saga (Complete) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSU151 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Random thought - if the Broncos were to move to SLC and the NFL gave another franchise to Denver...the new team would have to be named the Broncos. Nothing else would suffice. No matter if they sucked for 20 years after the fact, NFL football in Denver will always be Broncos football. Smart is believing half of what you hear. Genius is knowing which half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFGiants58 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 minute ago, WSU151 said: Random thought - if the Broncos were to move to SLC and the NFL gave another franchise to Denver...the new team would have to be named the Broncos. Nothing else would suffice. No matter if they sucked for 20 years after the fact, NFL football in Denver will always be Broncos football. As long as the record books don’t change, it’s fine. MLB: Project 32 (Complete), MLB: The Defunct Saga (Complete) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSU151 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said: As long as the record books don’t change, it’s fine. Pretty sure Denver fans want Elway and Manning's records to be associated with Denver forever. Nobody in Baltimore is upset that Jim Brown's records aren't in the Ravens' media guides. Smart is believing half of what you hear. Genius is knowing which half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFGiants58 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Just now, WSU151 said: Pretty sure Denver fans want Elway and Manning's records to be associated with Denver forever. Well then, honor it under “city history” and not “franchise history.” The NHL Jets got this right. MLB: Project 32 (Complete), MLB: The Defunct Saga (Complete) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infrared41 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 3 hours ago, andrewharrington said: The numbers and nameplate lettering are actually one of the easiest ways to spot a fake, because counterfeiters never get the proportions quite right. From a design perspective, it’s just an easy way to bring the typographic personality of your brand into your uniform, which makes the whole presentation more cohesive, more unique, and more recognizable. I mean, why wouldn’t you want the type you use on your uniforms to have some sort of stylistic connection to the type you have on all your merchandise or in the stadium/arena or on your website? People obviously go overboard with the actual design of custom numbers, but that’s an issue with design, not an issue with custom numbers themselves. You’ve just got to be smart with it. Imagine your reaction if the Packers ditched their signature “5” for the standard one used by all the other Ripon block teams. 1. Something can't be "more unique." Unique means one of a kind. Saying "more unique" is the same thing as saying "that's more one of a kind." Something is either unique or it isn't. 2. We already have color schemes, logos, helmets, merchandise, etc., do we really need the numbers to be part of a team brand? I say no. 3. Because it's pointless and outside designers, no gives a flying ? 4. On that we agree. You could lead the movement to stop this number nonsense. With great power comes great responsibility to keep numbers normal...or something like that. 5. (funnily enough) Having just compared a Packers 5 to an old Browns 5, a Raiders 5, and a 49ers 5, my reaction would be "wow, I never even noticed that." And I'm a longtime member of this place. Point being, I don't think Packers fans would take to the streets over it - provided they even noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sport Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said: As long as the record books don’t change, it’s fine. well that's great then because the record books have never been changed. Glad that's settled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSU151 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said: Well then, honor it under “city history” and not “franchise history.” The NHL Jets got this right. Idk...once the nickname is changed, the necessity of the team records continuing with the new brand becomes less of a priority. With the Rams and Raiders keeping the team name, the owners wanted to keep the legacy of all the historical teams. That's fine. But Art Modell clearly wanted a break from Cleveland. City change, nickname change. Let Cleveland have the chance to keep those records. Smart is believing half of what you hear. Genius is knowing which half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFGiants58 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 I hate Cleveland fans for screwing with the records. I want the fake Browns to never be a contender, lose to the real Browns/Ravens, and maybe even contract along with the Lanover, MD NFL team. Unhinged, yes. Inconsequential, also yes. Now go continue to be bitter because they won’t give you back the uniforms you want. 1 minute ago, McCarthy said: well that's great then because the record books have never been changed. Glad that's settled. BUT THEY WERE! Instead of being a relocation and expansion, Cleveland fans pressured the NFL to force the now-Ravens to give up their franchise certificate and history/records. That’s changing the record books. It was the wrong decision, one that lead to the NBA chaining trademarks to histories and the Hornets/Pelicans/Bobcats disaster. MLB: Project 32 (Complete), MLB: The Defunct Saga (Complete) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattb6 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 minute ago, SFGiants58 said: I hate Cleveland fans for screwing with the records. I want the fake Browns to never be a contender, lose to the real Browns/Ravens, and maybe even contract along with the Lanover, MD NFL team. Unhinged, yes. Inconsequential, also yes. Now go continue to be bitter because they won’t give you back the uniforms you want. BUT THEY WERE! Instead of being a relocation and expansion, Cleveland fans pressured the NFL to force the now-Ravens to give up their franchise certificate and history/records. That’s changing the record books. It was the wrong decision, one that lead to the NBA chaining trademarks to histories and the Hornets/Pelicans/Bobcats disaster. I don’t think Cleveland fans had any authority whatsoever when it came to this. The league could have said shove it, but realized the mistake that was made by moving the Browns. They decided to keep the Browns records in Cleveland, and this has always been reflected. Not really much of an argument. And saying that Cleveland doesn’t deserve a team should deal with it like the Oilers and Colts (among others) did? Well, they all got a new team within 20 years, so I think you’ve missed the point. The NFL realized their mistakes and that once you move a team their will be uproar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 It's sports. It's not real. It's entertainment, and not worth getting worked up about. There's no need for owners to needlessly complicate matters by moving teams and keeping brands that no longer make sense, and there's no reason to complicate things by moving or starting a team in a city that previously had one that it was very attached to and not just using the same name. Does it really matter if Jim Brown played for the Ravens franchise vs the new Browns? If it's a "Cleveland Browns" record, and there's a team called the "Cleveland Browns", then continuity be damned, people are going to treat it as the same, so just let them. It doesn't matter. I'm sort of a Sixers fan, and I couldn't care less about anytning they did in Syracuse before moving to Philadelphia. If the Syracuse Nationals were reborn, and wanted the old records, losing them would mean absolutely nothing to me. I've heard of Clevejacking (I actually may have been the first to ever use that word), but this thread's been CleveDealJacked. "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glover Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said: I hate Cleveland fans for screwing with the records. 4 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said: BUT THEY WERE! Instead of being a relocation and expansion, Cleveland fans pressured the NFL to force the now-Ravens to give up their franchise certificate and history/records. That’s changing the record books. It was the wrong decision, one that lead to the NBA chaining trademarks to histories and the Hornets/Pelicans/Bobcats disaster. Browns fans screwed with the records? Uh...I think the NFL has the final say in that one, bud. Notice the word you used...pressured. The NFL could very very easily have said "screw off Cleveland, the record books stand" and none of this would be a topic of discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC in Da House w/o a Doubt Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 As the fan of a relocated baseball team I can confirm that I do not care about the team's history in Montreal. If a new baseball team in Montreal came along, I would want and expect them to be called the Expos. I also decree that they can take all Montreal and Expos related history with them, including Vladimir Guerrero highlights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infrared41 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 2 hours ago, SFGiants58 said: Quote The history, colors, and name belong to the city They rightfully belong to the Baltimore Ravens, but I get it. No, you really don't. If you did get it, you wouldn't have opened this can of worms. I'll be the first to admit that the whole "history" thing is just ridiculous, but it is what it is. That being said, we fought to keep our team name and colors and we won. As a lifelong Browns fan, you if you don't like it, no offense. (sorry, that's just the blue collar Midwesterner in me coming out) I saw LMU bring up Houston. Here's the thing, if Oilers fans really cared all that much, they could have done the same thing we did. Baltimore could have done it in 1983 and so on. Its not our fault that we were the first fanbase to succeed in keeping our team - screwed up as the whole thing might be. The name Cleveland Browns has literally nothing to do with the ineptitude of the current Cleveland Browns franchise. All things being equal, the Cleveland "Lake Gators" (props @McCarthy ) would be the same disaster the Browns are. Calling the team the Browns didn't get us here, an almost improbable stretch of ineptitude and poor decisions did. Cleveland Rocks, bitches! Cue the Chimps and a Little Paul Stanley "YEAH!" (For non-listeners, that's a BASS reference .) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFGiants58 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 I just would prefer a universe with the Baltimore Ravens and the Cleveland Bulldogs or something like that. That’s all. I apologize that I got so worked up and got into a bad take trap. I’ve been a bit angsty lately and I wanted to take it out on something. It’s a very unhealthy thing to do and I apologize. I’m sure a few people agree with those stances I put up, but those stances take this stuff too seriously and are way too rigid and short-sighted. Again, I screwed up. Now, how to plan my 20 minute-long apology video where I deflect, downplay my sins, and just act whiny... MLB: Project 32 (Complete), MLB: The Defunct Saga (Complete) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infrared41 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 18 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said: I hate Cleveland fans for screwing with the records. I want the fake Browns to never be a contender, lose to the real Browns/Ravens, and maybe even contract along with the Lanover, MD NFL team. Unhinged, yes. Inconsequential, also yes. Now go continue to be bitter because they won’t give you back the uniforms you want. Again, you if you don't like it, no offense. That being said, congratulations, you just obliterated the record for going from someone I like to someone I can't stand. You did it in three posts. That, my former friend, is impressive as all hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infrared41 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said: Again, I screwed up. Now, how to plan my 20 minute-long apology video where I deflect, downplay my sins, and just act whiny... Can't help you with the plan, but it's a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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