XFL 2023: Third Time's the Charm!

[TBGKon]

11 hours ago, Cujo said:

 

Is it really necessary to have 3/8th of the league from the same state?

It does when you are essentially doing the hub and spoke gamedays and practicing around Dallas during the week.

[MJWalker45]

11 hours ago, Cujo said:

 

Is it really necessary to have 3/8th of the league from the same state?

At the moment I would say yes. Heck, the USFL was entirely in one city until the playoffs, a feature of it's original form, the Spring League. They'll be split between 4 locations this year, so teams are still representing cities they won't even play at for at least one more year. Keeping costs down as you get going makes total sense. Remember when the NHL was entirely located within the Northeast and Canada? 

 

11 hours ago, Sykotyk said:

With the XFL doing the airline equivalent of hub and spoke, it makes sense to group the three Texas teams together since they're basing their operations out of Arlington. They're going to have 1 to 3 games a week nearby for travel. Keep them grouped, and you're guaranteed at least 1 Texas team in the playoffs, preferably two. And if rumor is true that the final is in San Antonio, then at least 2 of 3 playoff games are a short drive from Arlington.

 

If you did East/West and put Houston in the East with DC, STL, and ORL, you're risking LV and SEA winning the west playoff spots, and Houston missing the two eastern spots. And then your playoffs are all outside Texas. And that neutral site rumored title game will have 50 people at it.

It also builds on the local rivalries that already exist in these cities to keep them together. Some Brahmas fans have picked Houston and St. Louis as our main rivals, but Arlington will probably get the biggest boos when they enter the Alamodome. 

[Sykotyk]

On 1/10/2023 at 11:09 AM, MJWalker45 said:

At the moment I would say yes. Heck, the USFL was entirely in one city until the playoffs, a feature of it's original form, the Spring League. They'll be split between 4 locations this year, so teams are still representing cities they won't even play at for at least one more year. Keeping costs down as you get going makes total sense. Remember when the NHL was entirely located within the Northeast and Canada? 

 

It also builds on the local rivalries that already exist in these cities to keep them together. Some Brahmas fans have picked Houston and St. Louis as our main rivals, but Arlington will probably get the biggest boos when they enter the Alamodome. 

Of the three, I think SA and HOU will consider ARL their biggest/most hated rival. While ARL will probably consider HOU their rival.  Much more rivalry between those two from general sports fans.

[Cruhawk7975]

On 1/10/2023 at 12:00 AM, Cujo said:

 

Is it really necessary to have 3/8th of the league from the same state?

When that state is Texas, which worships football religiously, and has 2 markets that decently supported their teams from the 2020 iteration of the league, and the 3rd is one of the largest metro areas in the US without an NFL team , and the entire league is based out of a central hub in Dallas (Arlington technically), it makes a lot more sense. 

 

Could hint toward a longer term view with them with expansion too, keep a compact south division and eventually add two western (say, San Diego and San Jose/Denver/Arizona) and two eastern teams (say NY and Chicago/Atlanta for sake of argument) - swap Orlando for St. Louis as needed for 3 relatively geographically distinct divisions.

[MJWalker45]

52 minutes ago, Cruhawk7975 said:

When that state is Texas, which worships football religiously, and has 2 markets that decently supported their teams from the 2020 iteration of the league, and the 3rd is one of the largest metro areas in the US without an NFL team , and the entire league is based out of a central hub in Dallas (Arlington technically), it makes a lot more sense. 

 

Could hint toward a longer term view with them with expansion too, keep a compact south division and eventually add two western (say, San Diego and San Jose/Denver/Arizona) and two eastern teams (say NY and Chicago/Atlanta for sake of argument) - swap Orlando for St. Louis as needed for 3 relatively geographically distinct divisions.

I'd move the Vipers to San Diego as soon as possible. 

[McCall]

1 hour ago, MJWalker45 said:

I'd move the Vipers to San Diego as soon as possible. 

I was a little surprised they hadn't. San Diego has a new (and smaller) stadium available since SDSU plays in the fall (haven't checked on their soccer accomidations), AND is a recently vacated NFL market, like St. Louis, that would probably turn out big time for games. Unless there is some issue with the stadium availability, would've been a better move.

[MJWalker45]

Just now, McCall said:

I was a little surprised they hadn't. San Diego has a new (and smaller) stadium available since SDSU plays in the fall (haven't checked on their soccer accomidations), AND is a recently vacated NFL market, like St. Louis, that would probably turn out big time for games. Unless there is some issue with the stadium availability, would've been a better move.

I think they were expecting to get waivers to use Sam Boyd and then got told it wasn't going to happen. I wonder how many tickets had been sold by then that they decided they had to stay put. 

[McCall]

1 minute ago, MJWalker45 said:

I think they were expecting to get waivers to use Sam Boyd and then got told it wasn't going to happen. I wonder how many tickets had been sold by then that they decided they had to stay put. 

Well, if they're smart, then Season 3 will feature San Diego instead of Vegas. San Diego, San Antonio and St. Louis together could easily make up for any of the other teams not fully carrying their weight in attendance. Probably Orlando, too.

[GDAWG]

Mike Mitchell (an alt football insider) said on the show "The Markcast" that Vegas was the idea of co-owner and Red Bull Capital's Gerry Cardinale.  

[McCall]

Here's average attendance figures from AAF (red) in 2019 and XFL (blue) in 2020.

TEAM	AVG ATT.	GAMES
St. Louis	28,541	2	XFL 23
San Antonio	27,721	4	XFL 23
Seattle	25,616	2	XFL 23
Orlando	19,648	3	XFL 23
San Diego	19,154	4
Houston	18,230	3	XFL 23
Dallas	17,163	3	XFL 23
DC	16,179	3	XFL 23
Tampa Bay	15,183	2
New York	14,875	2
Birmingham	14,307	4
Los Angeles	13,124	3
Memphis	12,944	4
Atlanta	10,895	4
Arizona	9,932	4
Salt Lake	9,067	4

 

Theoretically, you'd want to take the top 8 if you're creating an 8-team league. And San Diego is the only one in the top 8 NOT in the XFL in 2023. Instead, taking a chance on a recently saturated market that includes an NFL team.

[GDAWG]

3 minutes ago, McCall said:

Here's average attendance figures from AAF (red) in 2019 and XFL (blue) in 2020.

TEAM	AVG ATT.	GAMES
St. Louis	28,541	2	XFL 23
San Antonio	27,721	4	XFL 23
Seattle	25,616	2	XFL 23
Orlando	19,648	3	XFL 23
San Diego	19,154	4
Houston	18,230	3	XFL 23
Dallas	17,163	3	XFL 23
DC	16,179	3	XFL 23
Tampa Bay	15,183	2
New York	14,875	2
Birmingham	14,307	4
Los Angeles	13,124	3
Memphis	12,944	4
Atlanta	10,895	4
Arizona	9,932	4
Salt Lake	9,067	4

 

Theoretically, you'd want to take the top 8 if you're creating an 8-team league. And San Diego is the only one in the top 8 NOT in the XFL in 2023. Instead, taking a chance on a recently saturated market that includes an NFL team.

 

That already has an NHL team too but also wants NBA, MLB and MLS.  

[McCall]

Just now, GDAWG said:

 

That already has an NHL team too but also wants NBA, MLB and MLS.  

Exactly. I'm actually all for Vegas growing in teams, but they are not viewed as a potential successful market for the XFL. Dallas and Houston are gonna draw because it's Texas. Seattle was surprisingly popular as well. DC did pretty well and their numbers are pretty ideal if they're the bottom of a league (relative to these statistics above and the future). But look at the markets that don't have NFL teams or theirs moved. THAT should be your first target. San Antonio, St. Louis and San Diego fit that demographic and are your best bet to thrive in this league.

[McCall]

Somehow quote-posted my own post. Don't know how that happened.

[GDAWG]

4 minutes ago, McCall said:

Exactly. I'm actually all for Vegas growing in teams, but they are not viewed as a potential successful market for the XFL. Dallas and Houston are gonna draw because it's Texas. Seattle was surprisingly popular as well. DC did pretty well and their numbers are pretty ideal if they're the bottom of a league (relative to these statistics above and the future). But look at the markets that don't have NFL teams or theirs moved. THAT should be your first target. San Antonio, St. Louis and San Diego fit that demographic and are your best bet to thrive in this league.

 

The call for the XFL to go to Las Vegas is co-owner Gerry Cardinale of Redbird Capital.  

[Sykotyk]

On 1/23/2023 at 12:35 PM, GDAWG said:

 

The call for the XFL to go to Las Vegas is co-owner Gerry Cardinale of Redbird Capital.  

I hope it had some market analysis and not just the whims of the owner. Not a good road to go down. If the league's co-owner put a team in a 10,000 seat venue because they 'wanted to' then there's some cause for alarm.

 

Nothing about Las Vegas looks promising from a sports standpoint. You have a very successful and first time Golden Knights, and now NFL in a giant stadium that's exclusive for them. You have a very successful AAA baseball team in the suburbia that is the southwest edge of town. You have a new minor league hockey team playing in Henderson as an affiliate of the aforementioned popular first major league team in town. You have the Las Vegas Lights soccer team. A moderately successful WNBA team. And you have this huge push to get all these other teams. An XFL/USFL/AAF/AFL team is not going to break in the way they did when they had nothing but AAA at Cashman and ECHL at the Orleans.

 

I wouldn't want to be in Las Vegas as a minor league team, at all. You are not going to get attention right now. There's also an attitude change in the city that they are big league, and an XFL team just a couple years after getting the NFL is not going to go as well as it did in 2001. I just see imminent failure with this Las Vegas team.

 

San Diego, an Ohio city, Milwaukee, Denver, etc seem like major markets that would've accepted an XFL team as they have a dry spell with their NFL teams or lack one inside their city entirely (Green Bay may be their fan support, but Milwaukee is still teamless and might attach to a team the way the city once did with the Mustangs in the AFL).

[GDAWG]

33 minutes ago, Sykotyk said:

I hope it had some market analysis and not just the whims of the owner. Not a good road to go down. If the league's co-owner put a team in a 10,000 seat venue because they 'wanted to' then there's some cause for alarm.

 

Nothing about Las Vegas looks promising from a sports standpoint. You have a very successful and first time Golden Knights, and now NFL in a giant stadium that's exclusive for them. You have a very successful AAA baseball team in the suburbia that is the southwest edge of town. You have a new minor league hockey team playing in Henderson as an affiliate of the aforementioned popular first major league team in town. You have the Las Vegas Lights soccer team. A moderately successful WNBA team. And you have this huge push to get all these other teams. An XFL/USFL/AAF/AFL team is not going to break in the way they did when they had nothing but AAA at Cashman and ECHL at the Orleans.

 

I wouldn't want to be in Las Vegas as a minor league team, at all. You are not going to get attention right now. There's also an attitude change in the city that they are big league, and an XFL team just a couple years after getting the NFL is not going to go as well as it did in 2001. I just see imminent failure with this Las Vegas team.

 

San Diego, an Ohio city, Milwaukee, Denver, etc seem like major markets that would've accepted an XFL team as they have a dry spell with their NFL teams or lack one inside their city entirely (Green Bay may be their fan support, but Milwaukee is still teamless and might attach to a team the way the city once did with the Mustangs in the AFL).

 

Isn't Milwaukee devoid of football venues?  That might be the reason why no alternative football leagues have gone there.  Now I don't know if the upcoming soccer stadium for the Milwaukee USL Championship team (that will seat 8,000) can be used for football, as Marquette plans to use it a lot for it's Men's and Women's soccer teams and Men's and Women's Lacrosse.  Maybe they can use a high school stadium?  I don't know the area to know if any of the high school stadiums in Milwaukee are suitable for alternative football.  

[Sykotyk]

1 minute ago, GDAWG said:

 

Isn't Milwaukee devoid of football venues?  That might be the reason why no alternative football leagues have gone there.  Now I don't know if the upcoming soccer stadium for the Milwaukee USL Championship team (that will seat 8,000) can be used for football, as Marquette plans to use it a lot for it's Men's and Women's soccer teams and Men's and Women's Lacrosse.  Maybe they can use a high school stadium?  I don't know the area to know if any of the high school stadiums in Milwaukee are suitable for alternative football.  

I thought there was one, but I was wrong. Searched the whole city and the biggest stadium I could see probably only holds about 6-7000. Even just outside the city, nothing seemed big enough. Old Miller Park (whatever name it is now) might have the space for a football field. But, not sure.

[Sec19Row53]

10 hours ago, Sykotyk said:

I thought there was one, but I was wrong. Searched the whole city and the biggest stadium I could see probably only holds about 6-7000. Even just outside the city, nothing seemed big enough. Old Miller Park (whatever name it is now) might have the space for a football field. But, not sure.

American Family Field doesn't have a layout for football. If you can fit a field in its footprint, the viewing angles would suck.

There's not a venue that would work, not to mention the fact that there's no desire or ownership, as this is Packer territory.

[PERRIN]

On 11/6/2022 at 2:11 AM, TrueYankee26 said:

So who are we rooting for here?

 

For me: USFL of course the Generals, and XFL the now closest team to North Jersey the DC Defenders

Being from Massachusetts, I've been cheering for whichever team has my favorite  uniforms. In XFL 2020, that was St. Louis. This year, probably Seattle in the XFL and New Orleans or Michigan in the USFL.

 

Edit: didn't realize how old that post was haha, my bad

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

2 minutes ago, PERRIN said:

On 11/6/2022 at 2:11 AM, TrueYankee26 said:

So who are we rooting for here?

Being from Massachusetts, I've been cheering for whichever team has my favorite  uniforms. In XFL 2020, that was St. Louis. This year, probably Seattle in the XFL and New Orleans or Michigan in the USFL.

 

Because the XFL continued the Guardians' identity, I hope that they do well.

 

But the team that I will be rooting for most will be Vegas, on account of former Guardians (and former Generals) quarterback Luis Perez.