Minor/Independent/Collegiate League Baseball Logo/Uniform Changes

[Bmac]

Todd Radom is handling the branding so we can forget the ridiculous Brandiose themes.

[nash61]

39 minutes ago, Bmac said:

Todd Radom is handling the branding so we can forget the ridiculous Brandiose themes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI6dsMeABpU

[B-Rich]

On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 2:34 PM, mightynine said:

 

(1) They were gone the second another city dangled a brand-new facility at them, no matter what their name is. The former Zephyr Field needs a lot of work to modernize and right-size it.

 

 

(2) Completely anecdotal, but I saw way more Baby Cakes merch on the streets in New Orleans and other areas than I ever saw with the Zephyrs (and I say that as someone who's had Zephyrs gear ever since they came to town!) Even I own the NO hat with the king cake and one with the baby smiling wearing beads - they are great hats at Carnival time. Never was a fan of the "main" logo though with the angry Tommy Pickles as you put it.

 

 

(3)I always thought the plan floated around was the current ownership team would buy and relocate a Southern League AA team, which would mean the Baby Cakes moniker would live on at the lower level.

 

(4) I wonder if that's still the case, because I'm not sure which team would be ripe for the picking and I also think that would be dependent on remodeling the stadium - it's too big for AAA baseball now, it's downright cavernous for a AA team.

 

(5) As for whether Benson gets involved, I'm not sure I'd want that. The minor league team would be even more of an afterthought in the facility than the Pelicans are now.

 

Disagree with so much of this.

 

(1)  Zephyr Field doe NOT need a lot of work to modernize and right-size it.

 

(2) My anecdotal experience is very different.  Not sure how old you are, but I was there as a 28 year-old at Privateer Park when the Zephyrs played their first game in New Orleans in 1993, and was in the owners' suite for the first game in Zephyr Field in 1997.  Back in those days, I saw a LOT more Zephyrs merch around town than in the last two years seeing Baby Cakes' merch.  This was true for adults (the beautiful  blue and green 'Z' caps, in particular)  but even more so for kids (t-shirts, caps, etc.).  Now in the last 10 years,  I will concur that one rarely saw Zephyrs merch, but that was because the team is, after all, 25 years here and also went through some stupid re-brands that never registered (the Nutria "bite" logo, the fleur-de-bat Z in blue and silver, etc.). Not to mention the NBA Hornets/Pelicans came along and quickly pushed the AAA team to a distant third in fandom.

 

Also anecdotally, I made it a point, after seeing someone wearing Baby Cakes gear in public, to talk to them about it, whether they were someone at a party or gathering I was attending or just a stranger on the street (no one I KNOW actually bought any merch).  They turned out to be (a) recent transplants, such as the fireman originally from Cincinnati, (b) out-of-towners visiting for Mardi Gras or Jazz fest, or in one case (c) an employee of the team.  And without fail, they were all youngish slightly hipster types, MOST of whom really weren't even baseball fans. They just though the name and logo was "funny" and "cute".

 

(3) I have no doubt  that money-grubbing Lou Schwecheimer would like to be involved in  some shape or form with an AA team here and keeping the name, if nothing else, so he can sell more of his remaining stock of Baby Cakes merch.  But I also have no doubt that the local elected officials and members of the LSED are smart enough to kick him to the curb.  

 

(4) Word is the most likely team would be the Jackson (TN) Generals.  And your statement of  "it's too big for AAA baseball now, it's downright cavernous for a AA team" is pure hyperbole.  Let's look at current AAA stadia size:

 

 

Zephyr Field/Shrine on Airline is 10,000, closer to smaller range of stadiums and clearly in that middle bell curve of the 10,000-ish range.

 

Now let's look at the current AA stadiums:

 

Zephyr Field would be in the top end range of the AA stadiums in terms of capacity, but it would by no means be "downright cavernous".  Take out (or tarp) the upper deck seats (but keep the suites) and it's right where it needs to be.

 

(5) Not sure who else would step up to buy an AA Southern League franchise, but Tom Benson bought and tried to relocate a AA team at the same time that the Dikeous planned to move the Zephyrs from Denver; AND he was going to name the teams the Pelicans.  His widow, Gayle, was the prime factors in getting him to buy the Hornets and keep them in town.  I think she'd be the best bet for a LOCAL owner with deep pockets who could keep the team as a civic enterprise, rather than a prime source of income like Schwecheimer was doing.

 

[The_Admiral]

I've never been very good at noticing distinctions between parks in one class of minors and the one right above or below it. I can tell a short-season A stadium from a AAA stadium, but somewhere along the way they all blend in. There's always a berm in the outfield, I dunno. I don't see why the one in New Orleans couldn't be a AA stadium.

 

The Baby Cakes identity was self-evidently horrid, but the blue and grey Zephyrs identity before it wasn't nearly novel enough for New Orleans. They could have done something in purple, yellow, and green that was locally relevant without going into over-the-top N'AWLINS tourist crap, figuring that the radius for minor-league baseball fans is going to be much smaller than that of the Saints. Whole lot of getting it wrong.

[raysox]

I find the title somewhat misleading due to the fact that the franchise is moving but the name Baby Cakes would stay in New Orleans, and that they're looking into getting a Southern League team to relocate to New Orleans. The Carolina Mudcats moved to Pensacola to become the Blue Wahoos, and the Kinston Indians moved to Zebulon to become the "new" Carolina Mudcats. It's just one of those Minor League things. 

 

Plus, you guys complain about Brandiose too much

[TBGKon]

On 1/13/2019 at 2:27 AM, Michael Bolton said:

 

Or "Baby Cakes" (I will really miss their identity, I actually love it and bought a couple hats which I hope will last a long time after the team is relocated.)

I wouldn't be surprised if the AA replacement team supposedly going there keeps that name.

[AndrewMLind]

Have to imagine it’ll be something farming-related, whether an anamorphic animal or piece of farming equipment (likely created by Brandoise, which means it’s bound to be swinging or holding a baseball bat).

[B-Rich]

On ‎1‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 1:27 AM, Michael Bolton said:

 

Or "Baby Cakes" (I will really miss their identity, I actually love it and bought a couple hats which I hope will last a long time after the team is relocated.)

 

And you live in Atlanta.  'Nuff said.

 

 

55 minutes ago, raysox said:

I find the title somewhat misleading due to the fact that the franchise is moving but the name Baby Cakes would stay in New Orleans, and that they're looking into getting a Southern League team to relocate to New Orleans. The Carolina Mudcats moved to Pensacola to become the Blue Wahoos, and the Kinston Indians moved to Zebulon to become the "new" Carolina Mudcats. It's just one of those Minor League things. 

 

Plus, you guys complain about Brandiose too much

 

No. 1: There is no set deal that the name Baby Cakes would stay in New Orleans; if anything, this gives locals at least an opportunity to right a wrong and get rid of the ridiculous Baby Cakes name which is overwhelmingly hated.

 

No 2:  Who is this "they're" you are speaking of?  The current franchise owner, Lou Schwecheimer (the only guy who would want to keep the name Baby Cakes)?  "They're" is certainly not referring to those in charge of the stadium:  the commissioners of the LSED (Louisiana Sports and Entertainment District).  Why would they want to deal with a guy who is taking the current team and leaving?  It'd be like Spanos telling San Diego: "Sorry, I'm moving the NFL Chargers out of your stadium, but hey-- I'll bring in another team named Chargers for your stadium in either the AAF or XFL." 

 

No. 3: The Carolina Mudcats have a history going back to their days of the Columbus Mudcats from 1989-1991, and the Carolina Mudcats since then in Zebulon.  Their name is beloved by fans with 30 years history.  The Baby Cakes name is reviled by fans, with only two years existence before the owner announced he's taking the franchise elsewhere.

 

No. 4: No, we don't complain about Brandiose too much.

 

 

50 minutes ago, AstroBull21 said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the AA replacement team supposedly going there keeps that name.

 

See above.  Again.... no.

[B-Rich]

1 hour ago, the admiral said:

 There's always a berm in the outfield, I dunno.

 

Exactly.  Here, "Da Levee":

[Brian in Boston]

Personally, I'd go with...

Wichita Wranglers (Pacific Coast League)
New Orleans Crescents (Southern League)

Truth be told, I'd love for a New Orleans-based Southern League team to be dubbed the Pelicans and for the NBA franchise to be renamed. I know the likelihood of that happening is, quite frankly, non-existent.

What would I suggest for a new moniker for the NBA team? I'd go with either New Orleans Buccaneers or New Orleans Corsairs - either one a nod to the American Basketball Association's New Orleans Buccaneers. Of course, then you'd probably have folks saying that a piracy-themed name hews too closely to that of the UNO Privateers athletic teams.   
 

[raysox]

Okay let  me have a few more sources in my argument

 

1) yes there is no set deal in place for the Baby Cakes to remain, a team relocating there likely wouldn't rebrand. Your hated Baby Cakes moniker was in the top 25 in merchandise sales for 2017, the first year they used that  name.

https://www.milb.com/milb/news/minor-league-baseball-announces-its-top-25-teams-in-licensed-merchandise-sales/c-286940194

 

Noticeably absent is the New Orleans Zephyrs from the 2016 list, which you can read from the line  "The Albuquerque Isotopes, Buffalo Bisons, Fort Wayne TinCaps, Hartford Yard Goats, Jacksonville Jumbo Shrimp, New Orleans Baby Cakes, Reading Fightin Phils and Rochester Red Wings made the list in 2017 after not making the Top 25 in 2016." Of the list of 25, i count at least 11 Brandiose branded teams. Most of the others are storied teams that are nearly 80 years old and always going to have support. The Baby Cakes saw an improvement in 10,000 fans from 2016 to 2017, despite the fact they lost 14 more games. The Jumbo Shrimp saw a 63k fan increase the same year they ditched the Suns moniker. The Baby Cakes made the news, drew interest, and sold merchandise which is all minor league teams can control.

 

2) "Owned by the Louisiana Stadium & Exposition District, which primarily oversees the Mercedes-Benz Superdome for the state, the 10,000-seat stadium is among the oldest in minor league baseball. It would likely require several million dollars of renovations before it would be chosen to house a possible successor franchise, potentially a team in the Double-A Southern League." https://www.theadvocate.com/new_orleans/sports/zephyrs/article_1d94ae8e-b157-11e8-9847-cba1d3fc31a3.html

I'll concede that one since it seemed more of a certainty when Ballpark Digest posted about it and where I got my original idea that they were in talks to move a AA team.

https://ballparkdigest.com/2018/09/06/its-baby-cakes-to-wichita-southern-league-to-new-orleans/

 

3) The Mudcats got sold to a man who moved them to Pennsacola, while the guy flipped that cash and bought Kinston. That being said, Kinston's stadium was built in 1949 and had no renovations. Zebulon was built in 1991 and renovated in 1999. Again, not quite the situation I thought. It's not like fans held protests for the name to remain the same, just sort of a continuing with life situation. They aren't moving because of the name Baby Cakes. It could have easily been the Zephyrs moving to Wichita, and it would be slightly less of a story.

 

4) I'll take Rocky Mountain Vibes, Amarillo Sod Poodles, Florida Fire Frogs, and Rocket City Trash Pandas. You can have the Syracuse Mets.

 

 

 

[AndrewMLind]

 

Quote

4) I'll take Rocky Mountain Vibes, Amarillo Sod Poodles, Florida Fire Frogs, and Rocket City Trash Pandas. You can have the Syracuse Mets.

 

 

This. One million times over.

[Brian in Boston]

3 hours ago, raysox said:

I'll take Rocky Mountain Vibes, Amarillo Sod Poodles, Florida Fire Frogs, and Rocket City Trash Pandas. You can have the Syracuse Mets.

I'll take the Brooklyn Cyclones, Burlington Bees, Daytona Tortugas, Hillsboro Hops, Idaho Falls Chukars, Memphis Redbirds, Nashville Sounds, Toledo Mud Hens, and West Virginia Black Bears. Hell, just to show I can give Brandiose credit where credit is due, I'll take the Asheville Tourists, Clearwater Threshers, Lakeland Flying Tigers, and Spokane Indians, as well. 

That said, you can have the likes of the Rocky Mountain Vibes, Amarillo Sod Poodles, Florida Fire Frogs, and Rocket City Trash Pandas.

[raysox]

Toledo Mud Hens is basically a Brandiose name from 1902 to be fair 

 

[Brian in Boston]

4 hours ago, raysox said:

Toledo Mud Hens is basically a Brandiose name from 1902 to be fair 

Indeed, "mud hen" has long been a commonly-used colloquial term for the American coot, a species of bird that spends its summer breeding season in - amongst other parts of the American northeast and upper midwest - the Toledo, Ohio area. So many American coots occupied the marshland surrounding Bay View Park, home of the late-1800s Toledo Swamp Angels of baseball's Inter-State League, that local sports reporters took to referring to the baseball team as the Mud Hens in print. Soon, the Swamp Angels name was abandoned and the baseball team - as well as numerous incarnations representing Toledo in various professional leagues at different classifications - were officially dubbed the Mud Hens.

That said, Mud Hens is the exception to the rule amongst the minor-league baseball identities I cited amongst my preferences. The point being, it is possible to create popular, engaging, well-designed minor-league sports brands without repeatedly succumbing to the increased tendency towards embracing a "can-you-top-this" approach that threatens to alienate as many fans as it attracts.    

[raysox]

And a Yard Goat is an old locomotive that moves trains from track to track. If Hartford had a 100 year old team with that name, no one would have their pitchforks and torches out. 

(funny enough, they did have a team named the Babies https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Hartford_Babies)

 

They aren't just puling names out of a hat, there is a lot of background research into the names. Yes, some names are better than others, but specifically Baby Cakes would only work in New Orleans. If the name was around since 1930, their relocation would be about the franchise, not the "failing" of the name. How I see it, the Eugene Emeralds, Norfolk Tides, Asheville Tourists, and Arkansas Travelers aren't on the top 25 merchandise sales list despite all having strong recent Brandiose branding and history. A safe name with a good logo doesn't guarantee anything.

 

I get where people are coming from, i'm not putting on blinders in this conversation. Brandiose isn't bulletproof, their swinging mascot logos do feel templated. They've seen to move away from that in the recent brand reveals. I just think a lot of criticism they get for being too "crazy" isn't 100% justified since some of their crazier stuff does market itself.

[Michael Bolton]

21 hours ago, B-Rich said:

 

And you live in Atlanta.  'Nuff said.

 

 

How is this relevant?

[B-Rich]

4 hours ago, raysox said:

They aren't just puling names out of a hat, there is a lot of background research into the names. Yes, some names are better than others, but specifically Baby Cakes would only work in New Orleans.

 

Now you're just reaching. 

 

"There's a lot of background research into the names".   As I posted back in 2016 when the name was announced, from a local newspaper article that quoted directly from the Brandiose guys, they were here barely 2 DAYS doing on-the-ground research.   And to say, "specifically Baby Cakes would only work in New Orleans" is flat out wrong.  It doesn't even work IN New Orleans.  Brandiose and the out-of-town owners stated that they DERIVED the name; it is NOT even a real thing (the local term is and has always been "king cake baby").  They stated in their finalist name descriptions that a king cake baby "was sought after",  while New Orleanians know the exact OPPOSITE is true-- you don't want the piece with the baby, because by tradition then you have to buy the next cake.  Swallowing the baby or not owning up to getting the piece with the baby is even a long-running joke around here.

 

Not knowing these things is the kind of "lot of background research" these guys do.  That's why 91% of respondents in an online poll after the name was announced HATED the name.

 

These guys were so clueless that another one of their finalist names was "Red Eyes" for crawfish, despite the fact that (a) Crawfish do not have red eyes, and (b) NO ONE HERE HAS EVER CALLED THEM THAT.

 

 

3 hours ago, Michael Bolton said:

 

How is this relevant?

 

It's relevant because this was the point of the name change all along.  Nothing to do with building local interest, or picking a name that locals would go for, it was a short-term cash grab, which the owners essentially even admitted to. 

 

Minor league merch-- just like MLB, NBA, NFL and NHL merch-- is now sold all over the country, so they came up with the most 'whimsical' "cute' 'silly' (stupid)  name that would sell the most merch nationwide-- not to locals in New Orleans, 91% of whom disapprove of it and who see the name as a joke-- but to the many more people in places like Atlanta, Tampa Bay, New York, Boise, etc. who want to wear something cute and recent and 'out there'.

[Gothamite]

The LaCrosse (WI) Loggers have a “refreshed” logo. 

 

 

Shame about the 90s extreme perspective.

 

Here’s what they’re calling their “icon” logo, which I guess means a cap logo. 

 

 

that one might not be so bad, if the two elements looked like they were part of the same design.  Here’s an example where adding perspective would have helped. 

 

[Brian in Boston]

6 hours ago, raysox said:

They aren't just puling names out of a hat, there is a lot of background research into the names. Yes, some names are better than others, but specifically Baby Cakes would only work in New Orleans. If the name was around since 1930, their relocation would be about the franchise, not the "failing" of the name.

 

Well, then the quality of the background research being done isn't up to snuff. If it were, someone would have realized that "Baby Cakes" doesn't truly "work" in New Orleans, as the cultural icon being referenced is actually a King Cake, not a Baby Cake.

Either that, or - as is more likely - someone decided that King Cakes wasn't a goofy enough name to lend itself to an over-the-top logo package. So, it was then decided that in order to justify the creation of a goofy logo with attitude, the idea of a king cake would be mashed-up with the idea of the baby figurine baked into said confection and the bastardized "Baby Cakes" identity was reverse-engineered.

In short, there's a reason the name New Orleans Baby Cakes hasn't been "around since 1930": it doesn't mean anything within the culture of the New Orleans marketplace.