BBTV Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 3 minutes ago, DG_ThenNowForever said: No, that's just called doing what every team should do. And what pretty much every team does do. You've described effective team building. Philly was lucky to get Elton Brand and then Darryl Morey to make it happen. Elton Brand nearly destroyed the Process with losers like the center from Boston after The Coangelo disaster. Morey has been as advertised, but he wouldn't have had the assets if not for Sam Hinke. Every team strikes out occasionally with draft picks, but the Process allowed for the Sixers to withstand draft disasters like that little turd Markel Fultz, and dumb trades like Bridges for Zahiere something. That they've sold out a million straight games (with allowances for the covid shut downs and confusing restrictions that have just been rescinded) is another justification for The Process. I hope we're having this argument into our 60s. Trust it. 2 Quote "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 Goal is for thread name to be "Adults arguing about The Process". 1 1 Quote "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorWhom Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 I think "The Process" would have been a lot more successful if they drafted the guy that just had his Fourth 50pt game this season, instead of using it on a bust like Fultz. Yeah, I'm on the side the "The Process" was a failure. Embiid is the only real success story they got out of it. All the other top picks aren't even on the team anymore. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
who do you think Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 4 hours ago, DG_ThenNowForever said: the C's moving on from the Ainge failures uw0tm8? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 10 hours ago, DoctorWhom said: I think "The Process" would have been a lot more successful if they drafted the guy that just had his Fourth 50pt game this season, instead of using it on a bust like Fultz. Yeah, I'm on the side the "The Process" was a failure. Embiid is the only real success story they got out of it. All the other top picks aren't even on the team anymore. Then you don't understand the process. James Harden is a result of the process since they don't have the ability to get a star like him if 1) they don't have the assets to trade for him and 2) he doesn't want to come to the team, which he wouldn't if not for Embiid who is the embodiment of the process. As for the Fultz thing, Tatum wasn't an option. Part of the deal with the Celtics trading the #1 pick was that the Sixers don't take Tatum since they were locked into him. Fultz was the consensus #1 and denying that is rewriting history. It didn't work out - but that's what the process was about. You are going to swing and miss sometimes, so try to see as many pitches as you can so that you get more hits. I'll take it a step further - staying the process was a failure is absurd. They're an 8 seed or a play-in team forever, with maybe one year of getting lucky here and there. Instead, they've been one of the consistently best teams in the league over the past 5ish seasons, and been on the short list of teams that can actually win a title. They're selling out the arena, just years after not being able to give away $20 tickets. From both a business and on-court standpoint, there's no rational argument that the process was a failure. 1 Quote "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosioux76 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 7 hours ago, BBTV said: Then you don't understand the process. James Harden is a result of the process since they don't have the ability to get a star like him if 1) they don't have the assets to trade for him and 2) he doesn't want to come to the team, which he wouldn't if not for Embiid who is the embodiment of the process. As for the Fultz thing, Tatum wasn't an option. Part of the deal with the Celtics trading the #1 pick was that the Sixers don't take Tatum since they were locked into him. Fultz was the consensus #1 and denying that is rewriting history. It didn't work out - but that's what the process was about. You are going to swing and miss sometimes, so try to see as many pitches as you can so that you get more hits. I'll take it a step further - staying the process was a failure is absurd. They're an 8 seed or a play-in team forever, with maybe one year of getting lucky here and there. Instead, they've been one of the consistently best teams in the league over the past 5ish seasons, and been on the short list of teams that can actually win a title. They're selling out the arena, just years after not being able to give away $20 tickets. From both a business and on-court standpoint, there's no rational argument that the process was a failure. Based on this description, i'm not sure I understand "The Process" either. I'm kind of aligned with what someone said earlier: there's nothing special about this; it's just good team-building. All of the things you outlined — becoming a consistently relevant team, becoming a draw for big-named talent — are just the consequences of good team building, marketing and luck. But it doesn't describe a system that's any different from what any other team ascribes to. The Timberwolves right now are benefitting from young stars that will hopefully turn into regular contenders and make them a better draw for superstar free agents. The only thing different is they didn't attempt to brand it with something. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DG_ThenNowForever Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 The Hinkie process was to lose until you hit on LeBron James. Or multiple LeBron Jameses. But losing along the way was the better choice, because you could always point to future results and saw the losing record of the moment was proof that the process (ugh) was working. It was late stage capitalism as basketball, the owners were right to call him out and boot him. The Lakers did the process at the same time -- in the late- and post-Kobe seasons, they had a bunch of nobodies and lost a bunch. And then they also turned their assets into a star. Key difference, of course, is they won a title. Also, they didn't dress up what they were doing as something more than it was. And they still sold tickets. 2 Quote 1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said: and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosioux76 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 1 hour ago, DG_ThenNowForever said: The Hinkie process was to lose until you hit on LeBron James. Or multiple LeBron Jameses. But losing along the way was the better choice, because you could always point to future results and saw the losing record of the moment was proof that the process (ugh) was working. It was late stage capitalism as basketball, the owners were right to call him out and boot him. The Lakers did the process at the same time -- in the late- and post-Kobe seasons, they had a bunch of nobodies and lost a bunch. And then they also turned their assets into a star. Key difference, of course, is they won a title. Also, they didn't dress up what they were doing as something more than it was. And they still sold tickets. So it really was just a marketing ploy. They spun losing to make it seem like a good thing. I presume the idea is not only to lose until you landed a LeBron, but to placate your fans so public opinion doesn't swing against you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 1 hour ago, DG_ThenNowForever said: The Hinkie process was to lose until you hit on LeBron James. Or multiple LeBron Jameses. But losing along the way was the better choice, because you could always point to future results and saw the losing record of the moment was proof that the process (ugh) was working. It was late stage capitalism as basketball, the owners were right to call him out and boot him. The Lakers did the process at the same time -- in the late- and post-Kobe seasons, they had a bunch of nobodies and lost a bunch. And then they also turned their assets into a star. Key difference, of course, is they won a title. Also, they didn't dress up what they were doing as something more than it was. And they still sold tickets. Please give it a rest with the Lakers. They signed Lebron James, because they're the goddam Lakers. You think more than 4 teams really have any shot of convincing him to sign with them, regardless of the money? Any Lakers examples you give are completely irrelevant because they have a cheat code, just like the Yankees and teams of that ilk. People want to play for them, they're historic winners, they're in "glamor" markets, and they can pay the best. For a long period of time, nobody was going to want to play in Philadelphia (the post Iverson / pre-process era). Ripping it apart, acquiring top picks, trading anyone of any value away to 1) keep losing and 2) keep acquiring picks was the only way to get them to the point where 1) a Daryl Morey wants to run them, and 2) a James Harden wants to play for them. If you had a local team to be a fan of and not the freaking LA Lakers, you'd see things from a different perspective. I'm not sure you understand what it's like to not root for the house in the casino. (and you're going to bring up your fandom for the Bills, but the NFL is different and pretty much every team has the ability to build a winner quickly, some just suck at it.) 1 1 Quote "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DG_ThenNowForever Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 Warriors, Bucks, Suns. 4 Quote 1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said: and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosioux76 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 12 minutes ago, BBTV said: Please give it a rest with the Lakers. They signed Lebron James, because they're the goddam Lakers. You think more than 4 teams really have any shot of convincing him to sign with them, regardless of the money? Any Lakers examples you give are completely irrelevant because they have a cheat code, just like the Yankees and teams of that ilk. People want to play for them, they're historic winners, they're in "glamor" markets, and they can pay the best. For a long period of time, nobody was going to want to play in Philadelphia (the post Iverson / pre-process era). Ripping it apart, acquiring top picks, trading anyone of any value away to 1) keep losing and 2) keep acquiring picks was the only way to get them to the point where 1) a Daryl Morey wants to run them, and 2) a James Harden wants to play for them. If you had a local team to be a fan of and not the freaking LA Lakers, you'd see things from a different perspective. I'm not sure you understand what it's like to not root for the house in the casino. (and you're going to bring up your fandom for the Bills, but the NFL is different and pretty much every team has the ability to build a winner quickly, some just suck at it.) I understand the problem and I understand the logic behind the strategy. But I guess what I never understood until now is that "The Process" is just a clever marketing slogan for the act of making an asset more valuable. The Sixers weren't a valuable asset until they sucked bad enough to get several top draft picks and do something with them. The same is true of the work-in-progress T-Wolves. They just didn't give it a cute name. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigo Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 7 minutes ago, gosioux76 said: I understand the problem and I understand the logic behind the strategy. But I guess what I never understood until now is that "The Process" is just a clever marketing slogan for the act of making an asset more valuable. The Sixers weren't a valuable asset until they sucked bad enough to get several top draft picks and do something with them. The same is true of the work-in-progress T-Wolves. They just didn't give it a cute name. I argue that Minnesota should use “The Method”. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 6 minutes ago, DG_ThenNowForever said: Warriors, Bucks, Suns. Luck, luck, and... idk. Just now, gosioux76 said: I understand the problem and I understand the logic behind the strategy. But I guess what I never understood until now is that "The Process" is just a clever marketing slogan for the act of making an asset more valuable. The Sixers weren't a valuable asset until they sucked bad enough to get several top draft picks and do something with them. The same is true of the work-in-progress T-Wolves. They just didn't give it a cute name. I'm not familiar with the Wolves. Are they doing it on purpose with the well-known plan to spend years flipping anyone with any talent to prevent more winning and build up more picks until they got three players they felt were potentially superstars? And even then, had each sit out one or more season with injuries? (Embiid's was legit - at least his first year. Simmons could have definitely played at least half of his first year, but him playing and being good wouldn't have been in their best interests.) The Process was about leveraging a flawed system to get out of 8th-9th-seed purgatory and get the type of superstars that you can only get by 1) getting lucky (drafting Curry or Giannis outside of the top 10 when everyone else passed) or 2) attracting superstars / super teams, which realistically only the Lakers, Heat, and I guess Brooklyn can do, or 3) positioning yourself with as many top-3 picks as it takes to land generational guys, knowing that you're going to whiff on some. The Process is more complex than "lol let's just suck and lose". 1 1 Quote "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sky1324 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 Idk I feel like the process can be summed up pretty well by "lose for several years and hope we get good because of it" 2 Quote the user formerly known as cdclt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DG_ThenNowForever Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 18 minutes ago, BBTV said: Luck, luck, and... idk. I'm not familiar with the Wolves. Are they doing it on purpose with the well-known plan to spend years flipping anyone with any talent to prevent more winning and build up more picks until they got three players they felt were potentially superstars? And even then, had each sit out one or more season with injuries? (Embiid's was legit - at least his first year. Simmons could have definitely played at least half of his first year, but him playing and being good wouldn't have been in their best interests.) The Process was about leveraging a flawed system to get out of 8th-9th-seed purgatory and get the type of superstars that you can only get by 1) getting lucky (drafting Curry or Giannis outside of the top 10 when everyone else passed) or 2) attracting superstars / super teams, which realistically only the Lakers, Heat, and I guess Brooklyn can do, or 3) positioning yourself with as many top-3 picks as it takes to land generational guys, knowing that you're going to whiff on some. The Process is more complex than "lol let's just suck and lose". You put more thought into the Process than Hinkie did. You're also standing up for this genius: https://www.scribd.com/document/307277292/Hinkie-Letter 1 Quote 1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said: and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 5 minutes ago, QCS said: Idk I feel like the process can be summed up pretty well by "lose for several years and hope we get good because of it" It's supposed to take the "hope" out of it. Ted Williams was one of (if not the) best hitters of all time. If you have him for one at bat, the chances are he's going to make an out. Even if you have him for two or three at bats, he'll probably make outs. If you give him 10? He'll probably start to hit his average and get 3 or 4 hits. If you need a .344 hitter to get a hit in one AB, there's going to be some luck and hope involved. But as you increase the number of ABs, that starts to go away and you can rely on him to hit his average. 1 1 Quote "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigo Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 13 minutes ago, BBTV said: The Process was about leveraging a flawed system to get out of 8th-9th-seed purgatory and get the type of superstars that you can only get by 1) getting lucky (drafting Curry or Giannis outside of the top 10 when everyone else passed) or 2) attracting superstars / super teams, which realistically only the Lakers, Heat, and I guess Brooklyn can do, or 3) positioning yourself with as many top-3 picks as it takes to land generational guys, knowing that you're going to whiff on some. The Process is more complex than "lol let's just suck and lose". If that's the case, The Process failed (but, ironically, the 76ers still won) the moment Ben Simmons became a Net. 2 of the 3 "potential superstars" that they drafted (after 5 years of sub-.500 play) have been shipped away after not living up to expectations. The goal of The Process was to 18 minutes ago, BBTV said: ...leveraging a flawed system to get out of 8th-9th-seed purgatory and get the type of superstars... not to be second-round exits year after year, and luck into a situation where another team has an unhappy superstar just like you do. The Process's initial plan failed, but Philadelphia ended up better without it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 1 minute ago, DG_ThenNowForever said: You put more thought into the Process than Hinkie did. You're also standing up for this genius: https://www.scribd.com/document/307277292/Hinkie-Letter While I didn't read all 13 pages (not back then and not now), you gotta respect a guy that resigns like that. He's got an MBA from Stanford, which along with Wharton and Harvard is a top two or three (maybe even top one) business school in the country. 1 Quote "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 2 minutes ago, LA Fakers+ LA Snippers said: If that's the case, The Process failed (but, ironically, the 76ers still won) the moment Ben Simmons became a Net. 2 of the 3 "potential superstars" that they drafted (after 5 years of sub-.500 play) have been shipped away after not living up to expectations. The goal of The Process was to Incorrect. You clearly didn't go to Stanford. James Harden is a direct result of The Process. I'm genuinely not sure how that's hard for people to understand. Daryl Morey is a direct result of The Process. Anyone that Joel Embiid attracts to join the team or anyone acquired by Morey is a direct result of the process. Even if Embiid eventually leaves, if the team can maintain it's relevancy then The Process was a success. Of course, it would be more of a success if they could actually win anything, but for me, it's a success. None of the excitement and electricity around here happens if not for The Process. 1 1 Quote "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigo Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 50 minutes ago, BBTV said: Incorrect. You clearly didn't go to Stanford. James Harden is a direct result of The Process. I'm genuinely not sure how that's hard for people to understand. Daryl Morey is a direct result of The Process. Anyone that Joel Embiid attracts to join the team or anyone acquired by Morey is a direct result of the process. Even if Embiid eventually leaves, if the team can maintain it's relevancy then The Process was a success. Of course, it would be more of a success if they could actually win anything, but for me, it's a success. None of the excitement and electricity around here happens if not for The Process. The Process was not supposed to attract superstars; it was supposed to draft them. The Process did that once—Joel Embiid. The other two top-3 draft picks did not become superstars. The Process failed. Philly’s rebuild succeeded, but The Process failed. PS. You’re at Stanford, but the rest of us are at Princeton. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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