Did your high school copy a pro or college team?

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

1 hour ago, BBTV said:

I don't know how educators can teach kids not to steal, and to be creative, and then steal other people's work for their sports uniforms.

 

It's basically like "remember kids, stealing is bad, unless you don't have the budget to make it yourself".

 

It's really not a mystery.  The Rochester Red Wings once had a hat with an FC monogram, standing for "Flower (or Flour) City".  Well you can bet that I wear that hat, because it shows my initials.  A school called something like "North Central" that uses the North Carolina logo on its football helmet is doing the same thing.  The rationale is that a high school is not profiting from the logo, and the perception is that this justifies the use of it.  I will say that I agree with this from the moral standpoint, even though I know that that is not how the law works.

 

At my job, I work in a unit that has the initials "SLU". I modified the Cardinals' monogram, changing the T into a U, in order to make an unofficial logo for the unit, one that we use in some internal documents.  Similarly, my brother played in an adult baseball league in which all the teams had nicknames of Major League teams.  I modified the Blue Jays' logo for his team, and then (just for my own pleasure) I made logos for other teams in the league called the Cardinals, the Pirates, and the Dodgers, by altering the logos of the Major League teams.  What the high schools are doing is similar to this.

[BBTV]

1 hour ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

  I will say that I agree with this from the moral standpoint, even though I know that that is not how the law works.

 

that actually is how the law works, which is why bigger colleges and NFL teams make a lot of these schools sign licensing deals, even if it's only for $1.  There's an old thread somewhere about this and how teams have to enforce their trademarks (when they're made aware of misuse) or they can lose the right to do so in the future.

 

The NFL apparently did make a blanket statement in 2010 that covers them, by saying that they "support football on all levels and do not have an issue with high school and youth teams using NFL team logos," said Brian McCarthy, director of corporate communications for the NFL." , however I believe there's still instances where they have gone after amateur teams and made them sign the $1 deal.  I think there's also rules that say something like (my wording here) "you can use our logos, but you don't own them so you can't alter them or we'll get'cha". I have no evidence of that other than the vague recollection of one of our professionals here explaining it.

 

There are more recent cases of colleges going after high schools - I want to say it was Wisconsin?  

 

Here's an NYT article about it:
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/27/sports/football/27logos.html

 

Washington Post:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/21/AR2010102106526.html

 

Old CCSLC thread (NOT the one I was referencing above, but the first one that came up in my search... and I don't feel like waiting another hour before the search tool lets me try again.)

https://boards.sportslogos.net/topic/92079-nfl-and-major-college-program-stance-on-amateur-teams-using-their-logos/

 

 

[seasaltvanilla]

I was just typing up the same thing. Most high schools aren't trying to pull a fast one, and I'm sure manufacturing is much easier and cheaper if there's only 100-200 designs nationally than if all the thousands of schools had their custom logos.

 

My high school used the Kansas State wildcat in blue and green, and the Notre Dame fight song with new lyrics.

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

1 hour ago, BBTV said:

2 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

I will say that I agree with this from the moral standpoint, even though I know that that is not how the law works.

 

that actually is how the law works, which is why bigger colleges and NFL teams make a lot of these schools sign licensing deals, even if it's only for $1.

 

Thanks for the further detail.  What I was alluding to was the necessity of obtaining a licencing deal (even for a token amount), a step which I will assume that most schools have not taken.

[BBTV]

2 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

The Rochester Red Wings once had a hat with an FC monogram, standing for "Flower (or Flour) City".  Well you can bet that I wear that hat, because it shows my initials.

 

Reminds me of a time I was in Costa Rica (I think) and bumped into a guy that was wearing what looked like a super awesome maroon Phillies cap, but with a version of the P I'd never seen before, and the logo was inside a shield or roundel or something.  I asked him where he found it and he replied as best he could (he was Dutch) that he had no idea what cap it was, his name is Peter and he simply liked the P and as far as he was concerned, it meant Peter.  It was likely not a Phillies hat after all.

 

I then stole the hat right off his head, kneed him in the groin, and ran away.

 

Exactly 50% of this post is true.  I'll let you decide which part to believe.

[oldschoolvikings]

Here's a couple that always raised my eyebrows (neither are my high school)...

 

 

Cincinnati Princeton's recolored Minnesota Vikings' logo. They do this weird multicolored hair thing. Is the hair red?  Or blond? Both? (The school colors are officially Red, Gray, and Black. The yellow is just there on the logo.) Do they think the back of his head is somehow part of the helmet instead of hair?  Dunno. I would go with an all gray helmet and all red hair, personally.

 

 

And then there's this...

 

 

Grosse Pointe North High School. Steal the Minnesota Vikings' logo, and replace the horn with  wing. Why not? I wonder where they stole the wing from?

[RodgersThat]

http://www.shs-sports.com/SportsNews.asp?event_id=104

 

A local high school in Texas back in 1998 got in trouble with Warner Bros. for using the Superman logo.

[BBTV]

Here's something on the matter from the Georgia High School Association warning high schools about stealing logos.  It appears that the GHSA has partnered with some design firm to help schools out, so some of this might have come from that firm.  Either way it's a good read.

 

https://www.ghsa.net/five-things-high-schools-use-college-logos-need-know

 

Some excerpts (the linked article provides way more context):

 

3. The “15% Rule” does not exist.

The idea that altering a college logo by “15%” as a means of protecting a high school from legal action is widespread as an understood fact. It is, however, a bogus concept.

...

When a college enforces its rights in its logo, it generally does so by these three standards, not by an arbitrary “15% different” determination.

 

 

 

4. Colleges are not “stepping on the little guy.”...

Trademark law obligates institutions to protect their valuable intellectual property. 

...

...Failure to protect their marks can result in the loss of the legal right to do so, thus rendering useless the very idea of building and protecting a brand in the first place.

 

 

EDIT: 

Here's another link to a very interesting story about a school that was sued by a company that manages collegiate licenses for many universities on behalf of University of Arizona.  It turns out that the high school actually uses the Kansas State wildcat logo in 99% of it's material, but KSU isn't represented by this license-management firm, so the high school only got sued for minimal usage of an Arizona mark.

 

So often times, it's not the schools themselves that are looking out for logo thefts, but "license managers" that own the licensing rights to dozens or hundreds of entities and have the resources to protect their clients.

 

Interesting stuff!!

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highschool-prep-rally/dallas-high-school-sued-using-college-logo-actually-151136477.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAEBnxIiXlMJ6UBJKbRY2w4IqU_e7xSrAbndEReoxRQIk6Lj79T_dlYBUG7VeUI9Akp-R_9N-XlgTgWq4oINuWOo1OLJjSi950j_jgldYXwpfIBImssVBjNiZ52i8L_PyOEOvuQmkQPxoWT-YHheQLTgps0Hcsax26XziPfdHlTdJ

[maz]

11 hours ago, chcarlson23 said:

I never understood this either. Especially since there are probably both staff and students at every high school, creative enough to come up with a logo that’s unique. Sure inspiration isn’t bad, like especially if you’re the Cardinals or the Eagles, you could already guess what style logo any given school might go with.
 

But there’s no reason for these schools to blatantly rip off a logo. There’s gotta be a kid in the art department could whip something up just as fast as going, “Oh that pro team has our name, their logo is ours now,” and then changing the colors. 
 

The other thing is that it could be a lazy athletic director or coach, and they could care less about education and academics, so they just plagiarize logos…

 

 

Thing is, I think it mostly was an art student or teacher making logos for their teams back in the day, but more often than not they were just super cartoony or realistic hand-drawn caricatures. Then the internet made digital copies of cleaner-looking pro and college logos more readily available and it became easier to change it just enough then order mass amounts of stuff with it put on there. Add on apathetic AD's who want their team to look "legit" without caring at all about originality, and boom - hundreds of Denver Broncos and Philadelphia Eagles all across America.

[Discrim]

14 hours ago, LAWeaver said:

Up the river in Dresden, the Tri-Valley Scotties do have a scottish terrier logo, but lately they seem to have opted for a flipped Virginia Tech "TV" logo instead:

 

 on what...let's just flip the image and slap it on our helmets...gotta love the easy button  

[raysox]

growing up, my high school (built in 1996) had this good logo for an original team named the Hurricanes

So imagine my disappointment that they transitioned to this to emphasize the "University" in the school name

[BBTV]

My high school - the Whippets.  I'm assuming this is unique and not stolen.  Way back when I played, we had a decal for the first time.  It was the same dog as seen here, but bigger, and in front of a block D (it overlapped the whole letter).  The company that made them never sent the reverse-facing dog ones, so we could only use them on one side of the helmet.  Also, we didn't have any BFBS facemask nonsense.

 

Oh - and for some reason - maybe manufacturer limitations at the time - our blue on the helmets was closer to the Broncos old blue, so not a light blue, but lighter than the blue that was on our uniforms.  We were told we could have that blue or navy.  So kinda like how the Giants and Rams used to have navy, we would have looked the same had we not gone with the lighter version.

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

That's the Greyhound logo.

 

[BBTV]

6 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

That's the Greyhound logo.

 

 

It's really not (but maybe it is?), though there's obviously a lot of similarities so the comparison makes sense - like there is with a lot of animal mascots (how many ways can you draw a racing dog?)  The Whippet logo is much thicker in the hip/loin area, has much different shading, a different ear shape, only one visible right foot, and the tail flows directly from its back, as opposed to the Greyhound logo where the tail looks placed more like where a real dog's tail would be.

 

 

I'm fairly certain that version of the Whippets dog is actually one from half a century or more ago that they brought back to put on the modern D.  Maybe it was a copy of Greyhound's logo from way back when - I hav no idea.

[BBTV]

For what it’s worth, here’s the version we used in ‘94.  This one probably has more similarities to the Greyhound logo despite the obvious differences in shading.

 

 

EDIT:

Here's a Greyhound that may have been from the timeframe at least the '94 logo was in use.  I really don't know - the general shape is pretty much the same and there was clearly inspiration.  This logo is much closer due to the line over the front leg around the neck - but the Whippets version doesn't have the rear line, and instead has chest detail.

 

IDK - it was most likely a stock dog that whatever company provided the decals had and they said "put that dog in front of a D".  I think the current version is a way more custom mixing of vintage dog with modern D - but I really don't know.  The new "D" could be straight out of a catalog for all I know.

 

 

 

 

[maz]

 

Another one from the Pittsburgh area, but a move away from copying - the Pittsburgh Central Catholic Vikings, alma mater of Dan Marino and Damar Hamlin.

 

Used to change the purple in the Minnesota Vikings logo to blue,

 

 

But in recent years appear to have designed what, to my knowledge, is an original (albeit heavily inspired) logo...

 

 

Still using Minnesota-like helmets, though...

 

 

 

[MJWalker45]

On 2/21/2023 at 2:59 PM, RodgersThat said:

http://www.shs-sports.com/SportsNews.asp?event_id=104

 

A local high school in Texas back in 1998 got in trouble with Warner Bros. for using the Superman logo.

There's another that uses the Dodge Ram logo as well. 

[AgentColon2]

My high school back in the early 90’s copied the Miami Hurricanes logo.

[GeauxColonels]

Being in Louisiana, we have our share of LSU knock-offs:

 

 

Lutcher High Bulldogs....at least it's not a straight copy.

 

 

Thibodaux High Tigers....used to be a direct knock-off until they switched the tiger head from the old LSU one to a logo from a Baton Rouge area brewery.

 

In the last 2 years, my alma mater Hahnville High added a set of white helmets with a chrome LSU tiger logo. They still have their purple helmets with a gold "H" logo.

 

 

Our cross-river arch rivals, Destrehan High (Wildcats) have used an old Washington St logo for as long as I can remember.

 

 

The St. Amant Gators used to use recolored Florida Gators logos on their field, scoreboard, helmets and other items. Rumor was that they received a C&D from UF and switched to a different helmet decal. I must say that the gator-print helmet stripe has grown on me too.

 

 

Probably my favorite helmets in the state, though, belong to Loyola College Prep out of Shreveport. They Flyers feature a beloved cartoon character on their lids.

[WestCoastBias]

The Tri-River Athletic Conference (TRAC) in Fresno/Clovis, CA uses a modified Pac-12 logo.