2023 NFL Regular Season Through Super Bowl LVIII

[Chawls]

What qualifies for an MVP-worthy candidate? Lately, it just seems to be whomever is the full-season, starting quarterback of the best team at the time.

[The_Admiral]

44 minutes ago, Chawls said:

What qualifies for an MVP-worthy candidate? Lately, it just seems to be whomever is the full-season, starting quarterback of the best team at the time.

That's about the long and short of it, yes. Whether it should be is a separate debate, but yeah, quarterback on the best team/best quarterback on a top team.

[infrared41]

2 hours ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

Brock Purdy is playing with an all-time defense and all-time offensive weapons, but he's also making plays and scoring touchdowns.

 

Exactly. The argument that Purdy is a "system QB" is dumb. If all it takes is the right system to be good, then wouldn't every QB be good once they found the right system?

 

The kid has a bad game or two and all of a sudden all the good games were just luck. C'mon.

[infrared41]

5 hours ago, FiddySicks said:

Baltimore is a supremely well run organization and it’s always made me a little envious. I can’t even imagine how it must make old school Browns fans feel. 
 

 

We're not crazy about it.

[infrared41]

3 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

My point about the AFC is more than I don’t think the NFC contenders can really hold up against what the AFC North (sans Steelers) and the AFCW/S/E winners have to offer.

 

I'm sure the Niners, Eagles, and Cowboys would all be double digit underdogs in a Super Bowl against the AFC South Champions.

[Red Comet]

All I know is that I underestimated just how important Eric Bieniemy was to the functioning of the Chiefs offense. The man instilled discipline and there's no way he would've accepted the absolute horsecrap I and every other Chiefs fan this year have seen. I also apparently overestimated Brett Veach's competence. 

The defense has been lights out and it's a real shame that such a unit is getting overshadowed by the circus that is the Chiefs offense. 

 

I want Bieniemy back. Maybe as a head coach. Andy is getting up there in age and he isn't getting down in waist circumference. Just saying. 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Red Comet

[BBTV]

6 hours ago, the admiral said:

Justin Fields would make them even better if the Bears ever gave up on him. 

 

That's one name I don't need to ever hear again in any discussion of top QBs.  I'm not sure if he'll even be a starter anywhere after this season.  Hasn't shown that he can rise to the occasion, only seems to excel when it doesn't matter, and doesn't have the type of skillset that works well even as a backup, since it requires an offense to be kinda tailored to it.  The team always sucks, but we've seen how truly great QBs can either carry a lousy team, or at least show that beyond a shadow of a doubt, they're not the problem.

 

6 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

he’s good, but I wouldn’t call him MVP good. If you put him on another team, you’re looking at a sixth-seed team.

 

But you can't do the "put him on another team" thing with him (and it's dangerous to do it with almost anyone.)  Put him on the Eagles or Ravens and they're nowhere near as good.  Not because Purdy is bad (because he's obviously not), it's because their offences are built around the very specific talents of their respective QBs, and would need to be revamped with Purdy there.

 

SFs offense is built around the talents of the guys around him rather than the qb, but he still has to make the reads and deliver an accurate ball.  There's more guys that can be put into a system like that and do well than there are that could replace Lamar, Mahomes, or Hurts, but none of that discounts what he's done.  He may be the literal definition of a "system QB", but I've argued before that the "system" and "system QB" have to be the right fit, otherwise it implies that anyone can copy that "system" and have success with their jabroni QB, which as we've seen by everyone that's hired a Patriots or Chiefs OC as their coach, isn't the case.

 

TL;DR - Purdy as MVP is and has always been a joke, but that doesn't mean that he's not a very good QB and doesn't mean that he's an interchangeable part.  The true test will be if the guys that the offense is built around (McCaffrey, Samuel, Kittle, etc) go down and the offense has to be tailored to Purdy, what will happen?  My guess is that he can't carry a team, but people up until around 2006 said that about Tom Brady too, and those people look like idiots now.

 

5 hours ago, Rockstar Matt said:

If the MVP has to go to the QB on the best team,

 

It does, but I don't understand why that's the case.  I think it's funny when the MVP is a QB, but then the OPOY is a WR or RB.  I get that technically there's a difference between "most valuable" and "POY", but it still shows that the award is kind of a farce.  

 

If every team had a nominee, CMC should be (and should always have been) SF's guy over Purdy.  Purdy is kinda like a solid-but-not-flashy point guard on a team with star forwards, shooting guard, and center.  Not like a Magic Johnson point guard.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

2 minutes ago, BBTV said:

 

If every team had a nominee, CMC should be (and should always have been) SF's guy over Purdy.  Purdy is kinda like a solid-but-not-flashy point guard on a team with star forwards, shooting guard, and center.  Not like a Magic Johnson point guard.

 

Andre Miller was a great point guard. Mike Conley too.

[BBTV]

12 minutes ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

 

Andre Miller was a great point guard. Mike Conley too.

 

Would it be disrespectful to compare him to BJ Armstrong or Steve Kerr?  At least those guys won something and showed they could help enable legit superstar players.  I remember Andre miller being here and people saying how great he was, but he had nobody to work with (young Iguodala, Lou Williams, Thad Young) and got shipped off (which after checking Basketball Reference, happened around 8 times.)  No disrespect to Miller, but I think Purdy is in a higher tier.  Or maybe he's not.  

[Rockstar Matt]

1 hour ago, BBTV said:

It does, but I don't understand why that's the case.  I think it's funny when the MVP is a QB, but then the OPOY is a WR or RB.  I get that technically there's a difference between "most valuable" and "POY", but it still shows that the award is kind of a farce.  

I honestly don’t understand it as well. Especially in a year when there isn’t a single QB having a clear cut, standout MVP type season. Lamar, Dak, Purdy and Tua are all having good seasons but nothing “MVP” worthy like Mahomes or Rodgers have had in the last few seasons. 
 

This season would be the perfect season to acknowledge the greatness of a non-QB but the MVP voters just have such a hard on for QB’s. 

[PittsburghSucks]

6 hours ago, GDAWG said:

If the Browns go to the Super Bowl and they win it do we really want Deshaun Watson to win a Super Bowl Ring even though he's injured?

 

That's the best possible outcome for a Cleveland Browns fan like me who's not a fan of Watson.

[The_Admiral]

1 hour ago, BBTV said:

That's one name I don't need to ever hear again in any discussion of top QBs.  I'm not sure if he'll even be a starter anywhere after this season.  Hasn't shown that he can rise to the occasion, only seems to excel when it doesn't matter, and doesn't have the type of skillset that works well even as a backup, since it requires an offense to be kinda tailored to it.  The team always sucks, but we've seen how truly great QBs can either carry a lousy team, or at least show that beyond a shadow of a doubt, they're not the problem.

 

Fields looked good against an astonishingly bad Cardinals team with a weird dope at head coach, but his stats when it's late and/or close are really, really bad. Watching the game he blew to Detroit where he fumbled the ball beyond the endzone for a safety was a rare window into the life of a Minnesota Vikings fan where you get to witness new and exciting ways to screw everything up, but the Vikings would usually wait to do that until they won 11 games. He's not taking anyone anywhere meaningful.

[infrared41]

9 hours ago, GDAWG said:

If the Browns go to the Super Bowl and they win it do we really want Deshaun Watson to win a Super Bowl Ring even though he's injured?

 

The Browns aren't winning the Super Bowl...or even getting there. That said, should the sports miracle of  sports miracles actually happen, I honestly don't care if Watson gets a ring out if it. All I care about is that he's not in uniform for the game. In fact, I hope I never see him in a Browns uniform again.

 

EDIT: The Browns dropping almost a quarter of a billion dollars on Deshaun Watson and then winning a Super Bowl with got off the couch in week 11 Joe Flacco would be the most Browns thing ever. It would also be hilarious.

[BBTV]

When I think of how much it had to suck for Carson Wentz to be on the float with Nick Foles - and Wentz never recovered from that mental torture - it'd be nice for Watson to experience the same.  Granted, Wentz played at an MVP level and got them to 13-1 so he could claim that he was a big part of that season, whereas Watson... not so much.  But that makes it better (unless he has incentives in his contracts tied to SB wins and ends up being paid even more, in which case I hope they lose.)

 

Knowing Watson, just to be a dick and give a huge middle finger to the world, he'd have his own parade float that's tricked out with massage tables and strippers in little massage outfits holding bottles of oil.  I'd hope the fans pelt him with unopened cans or bottles of beer.

[ManillaToad]

MVP goes to the QB with the best stats who makes the playoffs. Obviously putting up 5000 yards and 40 TDs is gonna win you a lot of games, and seeding can come into play in close races (Rodgers-Brady 2021) but it's not like the AP just looks at the teams with a bye and says here's our candidates. See: Ryan Tannehill, also  in 2021

[BBTV]

Just call it "QBoTY".

 

Speaking of who won't win QBoTY, Russell Wilson has been benched.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39192081/broncos-bench-russell-wilson-week-17-game-sources-say

[The_Admiral]

 

Fields 4th quarter stats: 41/80, 463 yards, 3 TD, 6 INT, 8 sacks

Purdy 4th quarter stats: 54/83, 849 yards, 9 TD, 3 INT, 5 sacks

 

I don't think they'd go 16-1

[DG_ThenNowForever]

2 hours ago, BBTV said:

Just call it "QBoTY".

 

Speaking of who won't win QBoTY, Russell Wilson has been benched.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39192081/broncos-bench-russell-wilson-week-17-game-sources-say

 

Russell Wilson and DeShaun Watson are taking turns covering each other for who has the worst contact in the league. That's nice of them.

[oldschoolvikings]

1 hour ago, the admiral said:

 

Fields 4th quarter stats: 41/80, 463 yards, 3 TD, 6 INT, 8 sacks

Purdy 4th quarter stats: 54/83, 849 yards, 9 TD, 3 INT, 5 sacks

 

I don't think they'd go 16-1

 

I'm not trying to say Fields is some kinda hidden gem or anything, but those stats are calculated with Purdy throwing to Deebo, Aiyuk, and McCaffrey, while Fields is throwing to... I don't even know... you and me, maybe? 

 

[The_Admiral]

D.J. Moore, who is very good, and Cole Kmet, who is no slouch.

 

A funny thing about the Fields cult is that they're the people who 15-some years ago stood diametrically opposed to the Kyle Orton cult who loved him, to use terminology we weren't using 15 years ago, based on vibes. And hanging every shortcoming of Fields on bad coaching, bad protection, bad receivers, and good opposing defenses means that they, albeit in a different way, are also just basing their entire assessment on vibes.