2024 NFL Changes

[BBTV]

3 minutes ago, The_Admiral said:

What does it confirm and what does it refute?

Most notably, Nike isn’t even allowed to contact teams and suggest changes. The teams go to the NFL, and the NFL goes to Nike. They are contractually not allowed to solicit.  So them “pushing teams to change” isn’t even allowed. 
 

Not only that, but they don’t do helmets or logos. The only logo they’ve done since the 2012 contract was the Rams, and that’s because the Rams specifically wanted them to do it.  They’ve not done any other logo or helmet. 
 

the colors are often dictated by the logos / helmets that the NFL/team pick, not Nike’s whims. Also, if a team “knows what they want”, Nike just does it. But it’s when a team just has some vague ideas, that’s when they’re instructed to “challenge” them and push the envelope. 
 

It’s not like Nike has nearly as much influence as anyone seems to think they do, and there’s been several instances where teams were like “lol no”. 
 

In fact, for the Bucs last set, Nike didn’t even want to do it - it was the Bucs owner that kept pushing for more and more wacky stuff, including materials on the numbers that Nike said was a bad idea because of how it’d get ruined in the wash. 
 

They also tried to “fix” the Vikings numbers so each digit would be the same, but the Vikings loved the sail gimmick so

much that they insisted on the inconsistency. 
 

Also, Nike design is free, but teams can still hire anyone they want to design uniforms. It’s just that since Nike’s work is already paid for, they just use them (from the neck down). 
 

The guy is retired and has no reason to lie about anything, and admits that they’re instructed to think more about the younger fan than the older ones, and the “Nike speak” and storytelling nonsense is all contrived just for sales pitches and other reasons, but that on-field presentation comes above merchandising, and when we complain, they often do too and try to “fix” things that don’t come off as expected, but aren’t allowed. 
 

TL;DR

Blame the teams. 
 

It’s really a great interview. The guy was in charge of the Jets change, but was an old Jets fan himself and didn’t even want them to do it.  

[udubfan19]

1 minute ago, BBTV said:

Most notably, Nike isn’t even allowed to contact teams and suggest changes. The teams go to the NFL, and the NFL goes to Nike. They are contractually not allowed to solicit.  So them “pushing teams to change” isn’t even allowed. 
 

Not only that, but they don’t do helmets or logos. The only logo they’ve done since the 2012 contract was the Rams, and that’s because the Rams specifically wanted them to do it.  They’ve not done any other logo or helmet. 
 

the colors are often dictated by the logos / helmets that the NFL/team pick, not Nike’s whims. Also, if a team “knows what they want”, Nike just does it. But it’s when a team just has some vague ideas, that’s when they’re instructed to “challenge” them and push the envelope. 
 

It’s not like Nike has nearly as much influence as anyone seems to think they do, and there’s been several instances where teams were like “lol no”. 
 

In fact, for the Bucs last set, Nike didn’t even want to do it - it was the Bucs owner that kept pushing for more and more wacky stuff, including materials on the numbers that Nike said was a bad idea because of how it’d get ruined in the wash. 
 

They also tried to “fix” the Vikings numbers so each digit would be the same, but the Vikings loved the sail gimmick so

much that they insisted on the inconsistency. 
 

Also, Nike design is free, but teams can still hire anyone they want to design uniforms. It’s just that since Nike’s work is already paid for, they just use them (from the neck down). 
 

The guy is retired and has no reason to lie about anything, and admits that they’re instructed to think more about the younger fan than the older ones, and the “Nike speak” and storytelling nonsense is all contrived just for sales pitches and other reasons, but that on-field presentation comes above merchandising, and when we complain, they often do too and try to “fix” things that don’t come off as expected, but aren’t allowed. 
 

TL;DR

Blame the teams. 
 

It’s really a great interview. The guy was in charge of the Jets change, but was an old Jets fan himself and didn’t even want them to do it.  

so the teams are to blame for the disappearance of low whites on the socks?

[BBTV]

Just now, udubfan19 said:

so the teams are to blame for the disappearance of low whites on the socks?

nike can’t control how people wear things. 
 

As I and others have said for years, the teams look exactly like how they want to look. 

[PERRIN]

1 minute ago, BBTV said:

Most notably, Nike isn’t even allowed to contact teams and suggest changes. The teams go to the NFL, and the NFL goes to Nike. They are contractually not allowed to solicit.  So them “pushing teams to change” isn’t even allowed. 
 

Not only that, but they don’t do helmets or logos. The only logo they’ve done since the 2012 contract was the Rams, and that’s because the Rams specifically wanted them to do it.  They’ve not done any other logo or helmet. 
 

the colors are often dictated by the logos / helmets that the NFL/team pick, not Nike’s whims. Also, if a team “knows what they want”, Nike just does it. But it’s when a team just has some vague ideas, that’s when they’re instructed to “challenge” them and push the envelope. 
 

It’s not like Nike has nearly as much influence as anyone seems to think they do, and there’s been several instances where teams were like “lol no”. 
 

In fact, for the Bucs last set, Nike didn’t even want to do it - it was the Bucs owner that kept pushing for more and more wacky stuff, including materials on the numbers that Nike said was a bad idea because of how it’d get ruined in the wash. 
 

They also tried to “fix” the Vikings numbers so each digit would be the same, but the Vikings loved the sail gimmick so

much that they insisted on the inconsistency. 
 

Also, Nike design is free, but teams can still hire anyone they want to design uniforms. It’s just that since Nike’s work is already paid for, they just use them (from the neck down). 
 

The guy is retired and has no reason to lie about anything, and admits that they’re instructed to think more about the younger fan than the older ones, and the “Nike speak” and storytelling nonsense is all contrived just for sales pitches and other reasons, but that on-field presentation comes above merchandising, and when we complain, they often do too and try to “fix” things that don’t come off as expected, but aren’t allowed. 
 

TL;DR

Blame the teams. 
 

It’s really a great interview. The guy was in charge of the Jets change, but was an old Jets fan himself and didn’t even want them to do it.  

Not terribly surprised that it's more ownership and focus groups driving the bad ideas forward and not the guys who work for Nike. I'd imagine the people passionate enough about uniform design to make it onto Nike's design team probably have more traditional taste then we give them credit for. Sounds like a tough position to be in from the designers' perspective, forced to pump out bad ideas at the whims of rich higher-ups who don't know what good design looks like. Sounds miserable sometimes. I imagine they get ecstatic when a team that gets it (like the Chargers, for example) let them work their magic. I'd love to be on a uniform design team one day, but man would I not want to deal with that nonsense.

[burgundy]

8 minutes ago, BBTV said:

Also, Nike design is free, but teams can still hire anyone they want to design uniforms. It’s just that since Nike’s work is already paid for, they just use them (from the neck down). 

 

The owner's wife can design the uniforms for free too!

 

[rfraser85]

1 hour ago, PERRIN said:

Not terribly surprised that it's more ownership and focus groups driving the bad ideas forward and not the guys who work for Nike. I'd imagine the people passionate enough about uniform design to make it onto Nike's design team probably have more traditional taste then we give them credit for. Sounds like a tough position to be in from the designers' perspective, forced to pump out bad ideas at the whims of rich higher-ups who don't know what good design looks like. Sounds miserable sometimes. I imagine they get ecstatic when a team that gets it (like the Chargers, for example) let them work their magic. I'd love to be on a uniform design team one day, but man would I not want to deal with that nonsense.

 

There's one thing that makes me doubt it's all the NFL with the bad ideas. When I look at the Oregon football team, I can't believe the school decided to have a dozen uniforms each season. If anyone has a source, please share it.

 

This seems like finger pointing and repeating the company line. But either way, all ties with these "focus groups" need to be cut ASAP. I can count on one hand the new uniforms or uniform elements I've liked since 2012.

[MCM0313]

7 hours ago, udubfan19 said:

so the teams are to blame for the disappearance of low whites on the socks?

The league is to blame. They took away the requirement of socks being white on the bottom a few years back. 
 

The teams are to blame for plain white socks and pants. As well as fans who use and similar emojis. 

[projectjohn]

12 hours ago, Cujo said:

US STATE FLAG POWER RANKINGS

 

1) New Mexico

2-50) The rest.

 

 

End of thread.

[MCM0313]

11 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

The best flag on the continental United States is this:

 

 

/s

He was gonna call it Peterland, but that gay bar by the airport already had it. 

[BBTV]

6 hours ago, rfraser85 said:

There's one thing that makes me doubt it's all the NFL with the bad ideas. When I look at the Oregon football team, I can't believe the school decided to have a dozen uniforms each season. If anyone has a source, please share it.

 

1. Comparing a COLLEGE program to the NFL is not a good comparison.  Of course the college is going to take Nike's money and let Nike talk them into being their "showcase" for all of their "innovative" ideas.  It's apples and oranges.  None of us have seen their contract with the league, but I wager it's a lot more tight than a college that needs to do whatever it can to stand out for recruits or get attention.

 

2.  No team is going to wear something they don't want to.  None.  No team is going to be handed something by Nike, hate it, and feel forced to wear it.  You can "not buy" it, but the fact is that Nike can't make first contact, and while Nike certainly encourages team to break the mold and push the envelope and whatever else, at the end of the day it's up to the team.  That's stone-cold fact.

 

I recommend to read the interview, as there's a lot more than what I summarized, including unused concepts and a link to an actual presentation (as well as a story as to when Nike showed up to make a pitch and was kicked out.) 

 

It's paywalled so out of respect to Paul I'm not going to post any of those images, but it's worth checking out.

[rfraser85]

44 minutes ago, BBTV said:

 

1. Comparing a COLLEGE program to the NFL is not a good comparison.  Of course the college is going to take Nike's money and let Nike talk them into being their "showcase" for all of their "innovative" ideas.  It's apples and oranges.  None of us have seen their contract with the league, but I wager it's a lot more tight than a college that needs to do whatever it can to stand out for recruits or get attention.

 

2.  No team is going to wear something they don't want to.  None.  No team is going to be handed something by Nike, hate it, and feel forced to wear it.  You can "not buy" it, but the fact is that Nike can't make first contact, and while Nike certainly encourages team to break the mold and push the envelope and whatever else, at the end of the day it's up to the team.  That's stone-cold fact.

 

I recommend to read the interview, as there's a lot more than what I summarized, including unused concepts and a link to an actual presentation (as well as a story as to when Nike showed up to make a pitch and was kicked out.) 

 

It's paywalled so out of respect to Paul I'm not going to post any of those images, but it's worth checking out.

 

Fair enough. I'm just remembering the Giants when they were selecting their Color Rush uniforms.

 

The Eleventh-Hour Hail Mary Exclusive Story of the 2016 New York Giants Color Rush Uniforms – Pro Sports Rundown

 

Make no mistake, I'm not absolving the NFL. As you said, they could say no to the designs.

[coborjobs2010]

Id guess this is likely the shade of HTown Blue

[MCM0313]

1 hour ago, BBTV said:

 

1. Comparing a COLLEGE program to the NFL is not a good comparison.  Of course the college is going to take Nike's money and let Nike talk them into being their "showcase" for all of their "innovative" ideas.  It's apples and oranges.  None of us have seen their contract with the league, but I wager it's a lot more tight than a college that needs to do whatever it can to stand out for recruits or get attention.

 

2.  No team is going to wear something they don't want to.  None.  No team is going to be handed something by Nike, hate it, and feel forced to wear it.  You can "not buy" it, but the fact is that Nike can't make first contact, and while Nike certainly encourages team to break the mold and push the envelope and whatever else, at the end of the day it's up to the team.  That's stone-cold fact.

 

I recommend to read the interview, as there's a lot more than what I summarized, including unused concepts and a link to an actual presentation (as well as a story as to when Nike showed up to make a pitch and was kicked out.) 

 

It's paywalled so out of respect to Paul I'm not going to post any of those images, but it's worth checking out.

I’m pretty sure a bunch of the 2013-18(?) Jaguars hated their uniforms. Or at least the helmets. 

[aawagner011]

16 minutes ago, MCM0313 said:

I’m pretty sure a bunch of the 2013-18(?) Jaguars hated their uniforms. Or at least the helmets. 

He addresses this in the Color Rush article. Apparently there was a brief period where Nike worked on a couple helmets. They stopped about a year or two into the contract when the CTE concerns and single helmet rule came into effect. That pushed Nike to essentially have zero involvement in helmet design going forward. However, there were three they worked on: the Vikings, Jaguars, and Seahawks. Supposedly the mock ups of the Jaguars featured a much more gradual fade and looked better. He said at some point in the development, the league and Riddell took over sampling with various applications and finishes to the point that the end product was totally butchered from the intended design. He said it was so bad that Nike expected they’d quickly fix it before the season began and were disappointed when it was not. That was another sticking point in the articles: while these redesign processes can take 2-3 years, he said the actually design processes are fairly quick and it’s the corporate America hoops to jump through and meetings that slow the process down to a crawl. And partially from the NFL’s own rules (ie notice of intent to redesign and five year rule preventing redesigns) that slow things down, though I can see pros and cons to both rules.

[PurpleHayes]

9 hours ago, burgundy said:

 

The owner's wife can design the uniforms for free too!

 

 

Only in Washington, though...

[Lights Out]

8 hours ago, rfraser85 said:

 

There's one thing that makes me doubt it's all the NFL with the bad ideas. When I look at the Oregon football team, I can't believe the school decided to have a dozen uniforms each season. If anyone has a source, please share it.

 

This seems like finger pointing and repeating the company line. But either way, all ties with these "focus groups" need to be cut ASAP. I can count on one hand the new uniforms or uniform elements I've liked since 2012.

 

There's an obvious difference with Oregon that you're ignoring. Their football program is a product of Phil Knight's wallet, so of course they're going to advertise for Nike in return. If Phil Knight owned an NFL team, you can bet they'd also be decked out in the latest and greatest of whatever Nike thinks is trendy right now.

 

At the same time, even in college, Nike can't make Alabama or Texas wear a dozen uniforms every season. Like any other design firm, they are ultimately beholden to the client.

[FiddySicks]

20 hours ago, WBeltz said:

Maybe it because I don't live in Colorado anymore, but I have always loved the flag. It's so beautiful and the most iconic of all the state flags. I'm bummed I never grabbed a Rockies hat with that logo.

Hard to agree with this when we have California’s flag in the union. 

[ssj_homeslice]

Finally ponied up the money to read Paul's substack, and the Nike NFL interviews are fascinating. I am also glad it dispells the "tail wagging the dog" relationship people seemed to think Nike has in regards to NFL uniform design; that never really made sense to me.

[HOOVER]

6 minutes ago, ssj_homeslice said:

Finally ponied up the money to read Paul's substack, and the Nike NFL interviews are fascinating. I am also glad it dispells the "tail wagging the dog" relationship people seemed to think Nike has in regards to NFL uniform design; that never really made sense to me.

I did the same.  Excellent content.  And I'm going to post a few things from the 1st interview he did with Tom Andrich, because I believe that article is not behind the paywall.

The first one is something that, as soon as I saw it, I said..."oh no".  This was one of multiple rough ideas Tom presented when the NFL came back to Nike a year after Nike nearly sabotaged the relationship by making a huge City Connect-type presentation to NFL execs.  The NFL was not at all happy about the City Connect gimmick, but wanted to spike sales so they asked Nike for ideas.  This ultimately led to Color Rush.



If we see snow-capped mountain sleeves on new Denver uniforms in a few weeks, perhaps this is where the idea was born.

[HOOVER]

This was another one of those ideas that Andrich pitched and I have to say, I love the mixture of Silver/Gray into the New Orleans color pallete:



Of course, I'm a huge fan of when Army, Colorado, and UCF do it, so it immediately caught my eye.   Would love to see the Saints adopt their home throwback/away CR uniforms as their primaries, with an updated Gold helmet to match, but a modern alternate for them could include some Gray/Silver/Anthracite to create a new era look for them.

To date, these are one of my favorite uniforms of all-time:

And I'm always pounding the table for Atlanta to bring Silver/Grey back in their next uniform redesign, essentially using the 90's Deion uniforms with the helmet below, swapping Red in for Gold:
 

Any way you shake it, Black + Grey makes an incredible base for almost any other color.