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Calgary Flames Retire Mike Vernon's #30


beesharps

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So, the Flames retired Mike Vernon's #30 on February 6 before a game against the Chicago Blackhawks. They trotted out some of his old teammates, all wearing the Flames' classic jerseys that Vernon himself also wore when the Flames were in their 80's heyday:

vernon20.jpg

But then they send THIS banner to the rafters :

vernon19.jpg

There's a couple problems with it :

- The jersey is the current Flames home jersey, a jersey that Vernon never even wore.

- The banner doesn't match Lanny McDonald's retired jersey banner (although, admittedly, the design for Lanny's banner is a bit hokey. Sorry, I coudln't find a picture of it.)

- The dates at the top of the banner - "1982-2002". That states that Vernon played for 20 years with the Flames, which he obviously didn't. He was there from 1982-1984, went down to the minors for two years, then was the main guy in net from 1985-1994. He then bounced around the league from San Jose to Detroit to Florida. When he came back to run out the clock with the Flames from 2000-2002, he didn't even wear #30! He wore #29! :

vernon9.jpg

Also with the ceremony, it featured the tired gimmick of every Flames' player wearing a #30 Vernon jersey in the warmup, as well as having #30 in the ice behind the nets and plasted everywhere (and I mean everywhere) along the boards.

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I don't actually mind it when a team puts a retired number on the boards, on the ice, and even on all the team's jerseys for the night.

The only thing I would like to see is a consistancy in the banners. It kind of strange that, even though Vernon did eventually play in the current style of uniform, the number they retired for him is not the number wore for that style jersey.

If someone bought a current white Flames jersey and put VERNON #30 on it, would it be out of place?

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

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Yes.

And I guess it's too late for them to fix the banner now.

It can always be fixed. The Cubs did a rush job on Ron Santo's number retirement flag and used the wrong number font when it went up on the foul pole the last day of the 2003 season. By the next year (I think), it was fixed to their current (longtime) number font and matched the other two. Sandberg's flag didn't have that problem when they retired it in 2005.

That said, I don't think Calgary (or anyone else's) have to match the jersey they wore, as long as they are consistent. Doesn't sound like they are. If all the banners had the career years listed and had been modernized, fine. But if they are putting that new version up next to classics that match what he wore the most, well... that makes no sense. However, based on that 29 pic, it looks like he did wear the current color scheme, if not the black on red jersey, so maybe it's not that much of a stretch.

I guess the bottom line is teams can do what they want (ahem, Heat 23), but I guess I prefer if they all look the same. Otherwise, it doesn't seem like they all get the same reverence. (Of course, that's another argument for teams to keep at least the same logo OR colors throughout their existence.)

And why didn't he wear 30 on his last tour with the team?

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Also with the ceremony, it featured the tired gimmick of every Flames' player wearing a #30 Vernon jersey in the warmup, as well as having #30 in the ice behind the nets and plasted everywhere (and I mean everywhere) along the boards.

I totally agree with this. Here in Chicago, our ownership really sucks, so unless I go out to the UC, I only get to see the Hawks when they are on the road. So last night as I was watching the game, all I could focus on was the #30 on every section of the boards. I thought I was gonna be sick...but hey a win is a win ^_^

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So, do you propose a banner that reads: Vernon #30 1982-84, Vernon #30 1985-94, Vernon #29 2000-02?

I'm fine with that banner. His playing career spanned 20 years, from his professional debut in '82 to his retirement in 2002. The Flames are retiring his jersey, #30, for which he is most well known and most of his success came with that number on his back. Fact is, when a player has played for as many teams as Vernon, you have to take some liberties. It works for me. I do agree, however, that they should either make the banner in the style of the old jerseys he wore, or update the old banners. I prefer some sort of continuity there.

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This makes me wonder...

lets say that one day the Sabres retire Hasek's 39. (im sure it will happen eventually)

Hasek played most of his career in black and red, with the goathead.

do you think that they would do it in blue and gold so it matches up to today, use the old numbers, or go with colors taht are in in use anymore?

these are what the banners look like now

retirednumbers_800.jpg

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retirednumbers_800.jpg

Any Buffaloers out there able to give me a little background on Tim Horton? He only played 3 years with the Sabres? What's the justification for retiring his jersey?

I'm not being snide. I'm just curious as to his impact on Buffalo hockey.

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Any Buffaloers out there able to give me a little background on Tim Horton? He only played 3 years with the Sabres? What's the justification for retiring his jersey?

I'm not being snide. I'm just curious as to his impact on Buffalo hockey.

My guess is because he died in a car accident while playing for the Sabres.

As for Vernon, my biggest problem is the years. Just retire the number 30 and then just put the years he played for the Flames. Of course the big question is does Vernon deserve to have his number retired at all?

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Of course the big question is does Vernon deserve to have his number retired at all?

I think so. He holds Calgary's franchise records in:

- Games played and most minutes, both in regular and postseason

- Most wins

- Most playoff wins

Not to mention a 5-time all-star while on Calgary and most importantly, a cup. He's also 10th all-time in wins.

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hasek DID wear the blue and yellow, so i bet they'd put him up there in the blue and yellow...

but i agree. that banner is just weird.

i like the stars/celtics style banners, for retired numbers, personally.

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Calgary is commemorating when the number was retired, by putting it in the current style. There has been ample debate already here as to the logic behind that.

Philadelphia 76ers suffer from banner problems too. They use a number font that recalls nothing that was ever on a Sixer jersey. Okay, fine, but then check out Barkley's logo. The Sixers never used that logo while Barkley was on the team.

retired_erving.jpgretired_cheeks.jpgretired_chamberlain.jpgretired_cunningham.jpgretired_barkley.jpg

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I like what the LA Kings have done. They've made their banners look like the retired player's jersey with striping and all. So yes, you have different colored and type banners, but they reflect that Kings era. Though I'm curious as to why they had Luc's banner in the current style and not the Gretzky era. Maybe they realized that until Kopitar retires, they won't have another banner up there soon. I'm not so sure if Rob Blake deserves a retired #. Not bitter at him, I just don't see him having that much of an impact with the team, and that to me is the difference between him and Luc. When Luc came back, he made an impact. But back to Vernon's banner, I would've prefered that they make his banner look like the jersey he wore mostly with the flames, I think that would be the 80's-early 90's one.

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Any Buffaloers out there able to give me a little background on Tim Horton? He only played 3 years with the Sabres? What's the justification for retiring his jersey?

I'm not being snide. I'm just curious as to his impact on Buffalo hockey.

My guess is because he died in a car accident while playing for the Sabres.

As for Vernon, my biggest problem is the years. Just retire the number 30 and then just put the years he played for the Flames. Of course the big question is does Vernon deserve to have his number retired at all?

Same thing with Barry Ashbee and the Flyers.

img0002sp9.th.jpg

But then why doesn't the car accident make them retire Pelle Lindbergh's 31? :blink:

Roger, I get what you're saying about putting Vernon on the current jerseys, but if I were to take an authentic, RBK black Flyers jersey and put Hextall #27 on it, would it be out of place?

In a way, maybe. First of all, RBK didn't make jerseys back then. I'm not even sure if they used double-knit before he retired. But then again, he played in those kinds of jerseys. What's your take on that?

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Any Buffaloers out there able to give me a little background on Tim Horton? He only played 3 years with the Sabres? What's the justification for retiring his jersey?

I'm not being snide. I'm just curious as to his impact on Buffalo hockey.

My guess is because he died in a car accident while playing for the Sabres.

To add to that, Horton came up through Buffalo when they housed Toronto's minor league team. The #7 he wore in Toronto is one of the honored numbers for the Leafs. He did indeed die in a car accident while playing for Buffalo (very late in his career - he was 44), driving a De Tomaso Pantera that was a gift from Buffalo's GM. He lost control on the QEW doing upwards of 160 kph with a BAC twice the legal limit and significant amounts of Dexamyl (a prescription drug) in his system. The tight connections between the accident and Sabres management, combined with the fact that it happened during the season, explain in part why they chose to retire his number.

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But then why doesn't the car accident make them retire Pelle Lindbergh's 31? :blink:

Teams have different takes on tragic deaths, particularly when alcohol or other impairment is involved. This was the case for Horton, Lindbergh, and Steve Chiasson in Carolina. My personal feeling is that the right decision was made in all three cases - retirement for Horton, none for the other two. When a player dies and drugs or alcohol are involved, it raises a number of issues - by honoring the player's career and death, are we turning a blind eye to the circumstances and celebrating a life that met with such an irresponsible and avoidable end?

In Horton's case, he had a long legacy as a player, a connection to the city, and his number would've been worthy of retirement anyway. Lindbergh and Chiasson, not so much. Lindbergh may have gone on to a HOF-worthy career, but his numbers up until his death were above average, not exceptional. Chiasson was a dependable and serviceable defenseman, but nobody would've argued for his banner in the rafters had he made it to retirement.

Nobody's worn Chiasson's 3 since his passing, and I don't remember enough of Flyer uni history to say for 31, but I'm thinking the situation is the same. I think that's an appropriate way to deal with just such a situation.

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But then why doesn't the car accident make them retire Pelle Lindbergh's 31? :blink:

Teams have different takes on tragic deaths, particularly when alcohol or other impairment is involved. This was the case for Horton, Lindbergh, and Steve Chiasson in Carolina. My personal feeling is that the right decision was made in all three cases - retirement for Horton, none for the other two. When a player dies and drugs or alcohol are involved, it raises a number of issues - by honoring the player's career and death, are we turning a blind eye to the circumstances and celebrating a life that met with such an irresponsible and avoidable end?

In Horton's case, he had a long legacy as a player, a connection to the city, and his number would've been worthy of retirement anyway. Lindbergh and Chiasson, not so much. Lindbergh may have gone on to a HOF-worthy career, but his numbers up until his death were above average, not exceptional. Chiasson was a dependable and serviceable defenseman, but nobody would've argued for his banner in the rafters had he made it to retirement.

Nobody's worn Chiasson's 3 since his passing, and I don't remember enough of Flyer uni history to say for 31, but I'm thinking the situation is the same. I think that's an appropriate way to deal with just such a situation.

What about Dan Snyder? He likely never would've gone on to a stellar career. He'd have been a good 3rd or 4th line player, but nothing too special. Does that mean his number didn't deserve to be retired?

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