New Cleveland Indians unis coming....

[powersurge]

I love the block letter 'c' hat so much that I wish they'd wear it full time. Its just a classic baseball look.

The Chief Wahoo hat is just awful. I never liked it, and it never seemed to work well with any of the uniforms. I'd be glad to see it go. It also doesn't help that many people find it extremely offensive.

Well thats never going to happen. Chief Wahoo is a Cleveland classic. He is beloved in this town and he will never, ever go away. He looks great on a baseball cap and great on the sleeve of a baseball jersey.

I do like the classic new "C" look, but to wish for the Chief to go away is just wasting you time.

Don't bet on it.

Chief Wahoo is a CLASSIC example of a racist and offensive logo. Many people find it offensive enough that the club might change it, or MLB would make them change it.

The organization should take it upon itself and get rid of Chief Wahoo on its own. There's really no reason why they should be using it to be quite honest with you. Its pretty ridiculous to name the team 'Indians' let alone have a goofy stereotypical and racist mascot on your uniforms. You wouldn't name a team the 'Blackskins' or 'Whities' would you?

If you're bored here is a well written and thought out article about the whole issue with 'Offensive Mascots'. No surprise that its well written since it comes out of the Stanford University newspaper:

http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2007/11/...ffensiveMascots

If you still feel the same about the logo, so be it...but it doesn't say much about Cleveland fans when it comes to decency IMO.

[powersurge]

ditto

[The_Admiral]

There are more pressing issues in Indian affairs right now, like poverty and alcoholism, and there's no causal relationship between these real-life issues and the Cleveland Indians' hat. It's not honoring Indians, and it's not mocking Indians. It's just a stupid cartoon that once rested upon Charlie Sheen's head.

[AndrewPF]

I love the block letter 'c' hat so much that I wish they'd wear it full time. Its just a classic baseball look.

The Chief Wahoo hat is just awful. I never liked it, and it never seemed to work well with any of the uniforms. I'd be glad to see it go. It also doesn't help that many people find it extremely offensive.

Well thats never going to happen. Chief Wahoo is a Cleveland classic. He is beloved in this town and he will never, ever go away. He looks great on a baseball cap and great on the sleeve of a baseball jersey.

I do like the classic new "C" look, but to wish for the Chief to go away is just wasting you time.

HAIL TO THE CHIEF

[Smitty69]

There are more pressing issues in Indian affairs right now, like poverty and alcoholism, and there's no causal relationship between these real-life issues and the Cleveland Indians' hat.

What's that supposed to mean? Until the native americans get their house in order we'll continue to promote racial stereotypes about them?

I'm going to form a new MLB team & call it the Hymietown Misers.

The primary logo will be a big-nosed lawyer & the secondary logo will be a dollar sign.

Our cross-state rival will be the Asian Orientals.

Their primary logo will be a woman driving erratically & their secondary logo will be a calculator.

Think that'll be an issue?

Christ Almighty. I swear to God people are so afraid of change they'll rationalize anything.

The throwback uni's look awesome, BTW. Minus that cartoon on the sleeve they're extremely classy.

Agree about dumping the "I", too - if you're going to put a letter on the cap it should be the first initial of the city. (I'm looking at you, Baltimore Orioles.)

[Chazberg]

Why is it that nobody is offended by the Notre Dame fighting Irish? Their mascot is a little drunk Irish guy ready to throw down, presumably at a pub after he's been overserved. This is more of a stereotype than any Native American team logo. And is anyone on here of Native American descent? Cuz unless you are you really have no right or reason to be offended. I think that's the case with most of these "offensive" team logos: people love to take it upon themselves to be offended for other people. Our society is entirely too oversensitive and PC. The only way we should change these classic logos is if actual Native Americans all raise their voices. If they don't care though, then neither should white people or black people or anyone else.

[Old School Fool]

I'm partly Native American. I don't give a damn, really. Just play.

As a matter of fact, I love Chief Wahoo.

[cappital92]

There are more pressing issues in Indian affairs right now, like poverty and alcoholism, and there's no causal relationship between these real-life issues and the Cleveland Indians' hat.

What's that supposed to mean? Until the native americans get their house in order we'll continue to promote racial stereotypes about them?

I'm going to form a new MLB team & call it the Hymietown Misers.

The primary logo will be a big-nosed lawyer & the secondary logo will be a dollar sign.

Our cross-state rival will be the Asian Orientals.

Their primary logo will be a woman driving erratically & their secondary logo will be a calculator.

Think that'll be an issue?

Christ Almighty. I swear to God people are so afraid of change they'll rationalize anything.

The throwback uni's look awesome, BTW. Minus that cartoon on the sleeve they're extremely classy.

Agree about dumping the "I", too - if you're going to put a letter on the cap it should be the first initial of the city. (I'm looking at you, Baltimore Orioles.)

So, anyway, what would you name the Cleveland Indians? River Flames? Drew Careys? Art Modells?

[eatatmilliways]

So, anyway, what would you name the Cleveland Indians? River Flames? Drew Careys? Art Modells?

The Spiders.

[The_Admiral]

Which stereotype does Chief Wahoo perpetuate? Serious question. I never thought of it as particularly offensive. It's just a silly cartoon. Looking at it doesn't make me want to hate, degrade, mock, or assault Native Americans. It just is what it is.

I'm going to form a new MLB team & call it the Hymietown Misers.

The primary logo will be a big-nosed lawyer & the secondary logo will be a dollar sign.

If you think that's tantamount to the Cleveland Indians, I don't know what to tell you.

[powersurge]

Which stereotype does Chief Wahoo perpetuate? Serious question. I never thought of it as particularly offensive. It's just a silly cartoon. Looking at it doesn't make me want to hate, degrade, mock, or assault Native Americans. It just is what it is.

Sorry, but you are associating yourself with a very commonly used ignorant argument in defense of these logos and nicknames.

Unless you want to appear to sound ignorant...I'd do some reading about the nature of these logos/nicknames and the reason why they are offensive to that particular group of people. Just because its a 'silly cartoon' to you doesn't mean everyone thinks the same thing. There's plenty of info on this subject on the internet, I'd recommend that you read it to understand what the real issue is...if you so feel inclined to. I'd suggest that everyone does. Its not a black and white issue like many people are trying to make it....or a 'silly' issue like some want to trivialize it as.

Not all nicknames and logos are offensive....but many are. The problem is that if you make it all or nothing, you create resentment among groups of people on both sides of the issue. Don't know if compromise is possible, but I think it may be a start.

Listen, I'm not trying to talk down to you or insult you, I'm just letting you know that this argument is the ignorant.....even if you don't realize it.

[Smitty69]

As part Cherokee & Osage, I can tell you that it is. It's a caricature, which by definition is an exaggeration. It's the Native American equivalent of blackface. There's nothing "dignified" about Wahoo - as opposed to Washington's NFL mascot or Chicago's NHL mascot. But "Redskins" is extremely offensive - it's nothing but a slur.

How about this idea? Change the Cleveland Indians to the Cleveland Chinamen. You can put a yellow cartoon guy on the sleeve with narrow lines for eyes & have him wear a straw hat. The fans could do the karate chop during rallies. Think America's Asian community would care?

I'm just trying to draw a parallel for you that will actually register since, for some reason, a large number of people don't seem to get how racist these things actually are. Maybe it's because not many people know any Native Americans? Kind of hard to find nowadays...

[TruColor]

How about this idea? Change the Cleveland Indians to the Cleveland Chinamen. You can put a yellow cartoon guy on the sleeve with narrow lines for eyes & have him wear a straw hat. The fans could do the karate chop during rallies. Think America's Asian community would care?

Or just use something along the lines of Mickey Rooney's infamous sterotype character from Breakfast at Tiffany's:

Apparently, Bruce Lee walked out of the movie theater when this came on screen...

[powersurge]

As part Cherokee & Osage, I can tell you that it is. It's a caricature, which by definition is an exaggeration. It's the Native American equivalent of blackface. There's nothing "dignified" about Wahoo - as opposed to Washington's NFL mascot or Chicago's NHL mascot. But "Redskins" is extremely offensive - it's nothing but a slur.

How about this idea? Change the Cleveland Indians to the Cleveland Chinamen. You can put a yellow cartoon guy on the sleeve with narrow lines for eyes & have him wear a straw hat. The fans could do the karate chop during rallies. Think America's Asian community would care?

I'm just trying to draw a parallel for you that will actually register since, for some reason, a large number of people don't seem to get how racist these things actually are. Maybe it's because not many people know any Native Americans? Kind of hard to find nowadays...

I think we are on the same page.

If I had a nickel for everytime I heard someone say "Well no one complains about the Fighting Irish logo and nickname"

So that one nickname equals out all of the Native American ones?

You might as well say: "Hey they got casinos now, so that just about makes up for the near elimination of an entire group of people from America"

[chakfu]

Why is it that nobody is offended by the Notre Dame fighting Irish? Their mascot is a little drunk Irish guy ready to throw down, presumably at a pub after he's been overserved. This is more of a stereotype than any Native American team logo. And is anyone on here of Native American descent? Cuz unless you are you really have no right or reason to be offended. I think that's the case with most of these "offensive" team logos: people love to take it upon themselves to be offended for other people. Our society is entirely too oversensitive and PC. The only way we should change these classic logos is if actual Native Americans all raise their voices. If they don't care though, then neither should white people or black people or anyone else.

Why should you need to be of the targeted group to be offensive???? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

When the Nazis came for the communists,

I remained silent;

I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,

I remained silent;

I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,

I did not speak out;

I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,

I remained silent;

I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,

there was no one left to speak out.

[McCall]

Why is it that nobody is offended by the Notre Dame fighting Irish? Their mascot is a little drunk Irish guy ready to throw down, presumably at a pub after he's been overserved. This is more of a stereotype than any Native American team logo. And is anyone on here of Native American descent? Cuz unless you are you really have no right or reason to be offended. I think that's the case with most of these "offensive" team logos: people love to take it upon themselves to be offended for other people. Our society is entirely too oversensitive and PC. The only way we should change these classic logos is if actual Native Americans all raise their voices. If they don't care though, then neither should white people or black people or anyone else.

Why should you need to be of the targeted group to be offensive???? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

When the Nazis came for the communists,

I remained silent;

I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,

I remained silent;

I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,

I did not speak out;

I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,

I remained silent;

I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,

there was no one left to speak out.

Okay, we're talking about a sports logo, not some Genocide against a Race or Culture. Taking it a bit far there, don't ya think? We're not calling for Native Americans to be wiped out simply by Chief Wahoo being on a baseball cap.

[Chazberg]

Seriously man, what he said. It's a sports team. Nobody's life or liberty are at stake.

[chakfu]

Seriously man, what he said. It's a sports team. Nobody's life or liberty are at stake.

The point is, it is stupid to say that you can't or shouldn't be offended by racism if it's not directed against your particular ethnic group. Which is exactly what the original poster said. If that were the case, only perceived slights against the majority group would be acknowledged as bad. Which as actually the way the U.S. is heading these days, with all the anti-PC sentiment.

[02Rover]

I love the block letter 'c' hat so much that I wish they'd wear it full time. Its just a classic baseball look.

The Chief Wahoo hat is just awful. I never liked it, and it never seemed to work well with any of the uniforms. I'd be glad to see it go. It also doesn't help that many people find it extremely offensive.

Well thats never going to happen. Chief Wahoo is a Cleveland classic. He is beloved in this town and he will never, ever go away. He looks great on a baseball cap and great on the sleeve of a baseball jersey.

I do like the classic new "C" look, but to wish for the Chief to go away is just wasting you time.

Don't bet on it.

Chief Wahoo is a CLASSIC example of a racist and offensive logo. Many people find it offensive enough that the club might change it, or MLB would make them change it.

The organization should take it upon itself and get rid of Chief Wahoo on its own. There's really no reason why they should be using it to be quite honest with you. Its pretty ridiculous to name the team 'Indians' let alone have a goofy stereotypical and racist mascot on your uniforms. You wouldn't name a team the 'Blackskins' or 'Whities' would you?

If you're bored here is a well written and thought out article about the whole issue with 'Offensive Mascots'. No surprise that its well written since it comes out of the Stanford University newspaper:

http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2007/11/...ffensiveMascots

If you still feel the same about the logo, so be it...but it doesn't say much about Cleveland fans when it comes to decency IMO.

Do the research. Find out why the Indians are named the way they are.

Im not going to read the silly little article. We have read them all, from all the PC'ers that dont like the Chief. 99% of them are rabble rousing white surburbanites. The majority of American Indians like the honor the team gives its people. Indians hats are # 1 amongst the Native American people to this day.

At the end of the day, MLB isnt going to change anyones mind, neither are the do-gooder lobbyists. The Cleveland Indians and the paying customers of the Cleveland Indians and the citizens of Cleveland LOVE LOVE LOVE Chief Wahoo. He isnt going anywhere.

[02Rover]

So, anyway, what would you name the Cleveland Indians? River Flames? Drew Careys? Art Modells?

Here is an idea, how bout the Cleveland cappital92isaragingA-Holes ?? That has a nice sound to it, huh??!?

idiot......