2008 NFL Playoffs

[Fred T. Jane]

I'd compare it to European war in the late 17th/18th Century. There were far more (unwritten) rules regarding how combat and sieges went than exist today. It was expected that you would do your best to preserve your enemy's honor by allowing him surrender when his position became untenable by certain mathematical standards. It reached the point under Louis XIV's reign that you could make an art out of timing sieges so Louis would show up just when it was about to end so he could participate in the victory.

Well-placed comparison there. For the record, I'm grading a paper about Musketeers at the moment, so you get a star for being relevant to what I'm doing.

[LMU]

Well the rest of the season is now over Pats will beat the Chargers by 40

Nah, this is where fate steps in and screws the NFL out of their dream match-up. Happens all the time. The NFL and the media all want The Patriots vs. The Packers or Cowboys which is precisely why either the Giants or the Chargers will this up for them.

My prediction (you heard it here first) Packers vs. Chargers.

We already had the 'phins screw us out of a reverse ladder run (no thanks to Billick). I don't see lightning striking twice.

[NJTank]

That was a wasted challenge

[rams80]

Well, not everyone does it in the same way, but take a look at this(notice how I didn't take out all the patriot-bashing parts):

(http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=chadiha_jeffri&id=3017423)

"There isn't a team in the league that doesn't try to steal signals [but] I haven't heard about teams recording footage like the Patriots were," said one longtime NFL assistant coach. "But you can bet everybody is trying to steal in some way. In fact, you can go to any NFL game and you'll find some coach whose sole job is to look for defensive signals."

Added one NFC personnel director: "What the Patriots did is extremely rare because it's against the rules. It's one of those things that if it's not Bill Belichick involved, you wonder if the coach survives something like that. What is more normal is something like a guy sitting in a press box trying to steal signs by looking at the coaches. That's why the home team usually has its back to the press box when they're in their own stadium.

Please tell me you understand the difference between recording the signals with zoomable video media on field level that you can watch again and again, and relying on someone's fallible memory and note taking. Personally, I find the sections I bolded rather damning.

Sure, but everyone does it in some way.

Are you being deliberately obtuse here? The other teams are doing it within the rules and regs of the NFL. The Patriots weren't. It's black and white.

1) Are you really saying that if you videotape someone' defensive signals once for a short period of time, you automatically beat them? Plus, defenses change signals quite often.

You missed the large discussion on SigInt we had when the scandal first broke...but suffice it to say, even if you change specific signs and signals, the basic system has to remain the same so players can actually remember it. That basic system has patterns that can be observed given enough chance to study through repeated viewings and recordings. It doesn't allow you to beat someone, but it does make it easier n'est-ce pas.

That would be relevant if this were European war.

I was merely providing another example of unwritten rules and gentlemanly and honorable conduct. BTW...breaking those rules and regs was not typically seen as "cricket" and punished. (in the case of sieges, declining the offer of an honorable surrender once said conditions were met, would mean that your city/fortifications would be assaulted by the besiegers, your men killed in large numbers, and the place you were defending looted, pillaged, etc.)

Southeast Jerome would last 10 seconds in Southeast.

Again: huh?

1) How is Mangini a rat?

2) Having to explain this kind of points at your ignorance of the sport at large, but one of Clinton Portis' more infamous personas, "Southeast Jerome" is supposed to be this stereotypical denizen of Southeast DC. Southeast is hands down the most dangerous part of DC to be in, and I give Portis low odds of survival if he were to actually go to Southeast in that persona.

How about the fact that they honestly have abandoned objective reporting in favor of fandom and allying themselves with New England.

How does that have to do with the Pats fans and the team?

The fact people defend them at this point, and most of the defenders do seem to hail from a nameless 6-state region in the Northeast.

[HedleyLamarr]

So how many folks predicted that Eli Manning would be playing later in the season than Peyton?

[RyanMcD29]

Either way I hate this team so much I may even find it hard to watch the SB, but I don't have other options like next week, I will be going to watch hockey.

And now he's officially back.

What all Im saying is I am choosing to go watch hockey next week am I supposed to sit there and watch the Pats win. If they had a hockey game on Super Bowl Sunday I would go to that one too.

There's Rangers-Canadiens on NBC Super Bowl Sunday

at 1 PM

[gingerbreadmann]

So how many folks predicted that Eli Manning would be playing later in the season than Peyton?

Me!

(NFL BRACKET POOL THREAD)

WC--------DIV----CONF----------------SB XLII

SD---------IND

TEN--------SD-----SD

PIT---------NE-----NE

JAX--------JAX-----------------------------NE 37

.......................................................................58 TOTAL POINTS

SEA--------GB-----------------------------DAL 21

WAS-------SEA---SEA

TB----------DAL---DAL

NY---------NY

^ It's a bracket biggrin.gif

[DEAD!]

There's Rangers-Canadiens on NBC Super Bowl Sunday

at 1 PM

hmmmmm ... I would like to know how long the Canadiens have been playing on Super Bowl Sunday?...

[rams80]

WHOA. How can you define ESPN as Boston media? Wow.....

And they made him relinquish the tapes.

1) The fact you dispute this just....boggles the mind. That's the best way to put it.

2) It is so incredibly easy to copy electronic media today, such as tapes, and store them on compact devices (for example, I have a 500 Gig external hard drive which is the size of a small paperpack), that without a search warrant, there is no way you can be absolutely sure he isn't merely keeping a copy/copies in his house.

How about this?

Alright, but does that make him a thug? Is Zinedine Zidane a thug?

Let's see...2 incidents on tape in a young career. So yes. Zidane's an idiot...which is worse BTW. Vrabel also plays dirty...I was trying to poke around on youtube for it, apparently it wasn't there...but he cheap shotted the Cleveland QB when he was trying to spike the ball late.

The other what?

Just don't throw around the word "history", ok?

I wouldn't call it a "fair share." Nobody likes bandwagon fans. But they are NOT representative of true Boston/Pats fans with their jerkiness, and you're acting like it is.

Please read this poem and ponder how this might indicate how I come to my opinions about Boston fans and the proportion of them who are bandwagoners. (Here's a hint...I form my opinions from personal experience-I may be wrong, but I can't really tell, now, can I?)

Again, that ESPN thing is complete BS. You could listen to the radio, or the internet, or CSN/FSN...

And of those that I do have access too (sports radio in Peoria is ESPN, and DePauw has none) that are not ESPN suck in terms of intelligent content (with the possible exception of SI.com)

[gingerbreadmann]

Well I'm not gonna make another huge reply, but:

1. Yes I do understand the difference. But, alas, our tapes are all gone and those coaches still exist.

2. So, stealing signals in any other way is OK but doing it with a camcorder isn't? It's all the same purpose and outcome.

3. Even so, you can't just look at the D-Coordinator and immediately know what's going to happen. It just isn't possible.

4. But still, they don't apply here.

5. a. He's a tattle-tale. If you're all defensive of unwritten rules, there's one for ya. All the way back to the playground.

b. I'm so sorry that I'm ignorant because I don't live in DC... You're certainly not familiar with Southie or Beacon Hill...

6. They're not defending the Patriots, and what's so wrong with "defending" them? They're a 16-0 team. Not a criminal. And again, ESPN is in NO WAY associated with, or "is" Boston Media.

[kid_17]

Did anybody else felt that the Chargers had to beat the Colts, the crowd and the refs to?

[Fred T. Jane]

I was merely providing another example of unwritten rules and gentlemanly and honorable conduct. BTW...breaking those rules and regs was not typically seen as "cricket" and punished. (in the case of sieges, declining the offer of an honorable surrender once said conditions were met, would mean that your city/fortifications would be assaulted by the besiegers, your men killed in large numbers, and the place you were defending looted, pillaged, etc.)

Why even try? He can't even comprehend that you can use two different subjects and make comparisons based on their similarities?

[Nick 1733]

Well I'm not gonna make another huge reply, but:

1. Yes I do understand the difference. But, alas, our tapes are all gone and those coaches still exist.

2. So, stealing signals in any other way is OK but doing it with a camcorder isn't? It's all the same purpose and outcome.

3. Even so, you can't just look at the D-Coordinator and immediately know what's going to happen. It just isn't possible.

4. But still, they don't apply here.

5. a. He's a tattle-tale. If you're all defensive of unwritten rules, there's one for ya. All the way back to the playground.

b. I'm so sorry that I'm ignorant because I don't live in DC... You're certainly not familiar with Southie or Beacon Hill...

6. They're not defending the Patriots, and what's so wrong with "defending" them? They're a 16-0 team. Not a criminal. And again, ESPN is in NO WAY associated with, or "is" Boston Media.

You are by far the most ignorant person I've ever seen.

1. You have no proof that all the tapes are gone, could have been easily copied and stored where no one can 'find' them.

2. Watching their signals and taking notes is within the rules, videotaping them is AGAINST THE RULES!

3. He already said there's a pattern and a general form that each team uses, and changing said signals doesn't change the basic style of the way they're done.

4. The Patriots running up the score proves that they have NO RESPECT for the teams they play.

5. If someone is doing something illegal, AGAINST YOU no less, you tell on them, end of story.

6. Also, ESPN is essentially Boston media. They may not claim to be, but it's obvious to anyone who isn't a Boston fan.

[gingerbreadmann]

Part 2...

1. How could you say that? That boggles my mind. There exists many major newspapers, tv stations, radio stations, etc. in Boston, and across New england, and the fact that you choose to recognize ESPN as all of them is flabbergasting.

2. I'd say there's a VERY big penalty if somebody figures out they still have any...

3. Vrabel? Puh-lease. Now you're just looking for anybody on the Pats who has ever committed a Personal Foul.

4. OK...

5. Well, you might, because most of the people in your area that are Pats fans are probably bandwagoners. I'm sorry that you never have experienced life here... then I'm sure you'd have a different opinion.

6. Well here ESPN radio is in third place in Sports radio(another fact to disprove your claim), and I'm sure there is some other way you can obtain sports content you approve of if you choose to not watch ESPN.

[BCBoy]

Eli Manning just engineered a HUGE drive after sitting on the bench for 30 minutes. (10 gametime minutes.)

He's looking as sharp as ever, but we'll have to see if he can play turnover-free football all day, and still be effective.

--

The Colts were the last legit chance to knock of the Patsies, but who knows, maybe the Chargers, who weren't even given a chance against the Colts this week, can do something.

(How 'bout Billy Volek?)

[rams80]

Part 2...

1. How could you say that? That boggles my mind. There exists many major newspapers, tv stations, radio stations, etc. in Boston, and across New england, and the fact that you choose to recognize ESPN as all of them is flabbergasting.

2. I'd say there's a VERY big penalty if somebody figures out they still have any...

3. Vrabel? Puh-lease. Now you're just looking for anybody on the Pats who has ever committed a Personal Foul.

4. OK...

5. Well, you might, because most of the people in your area that are Pats fans are probably bandwagoners. I'm sorry that you never have experienced life here... then I'm sure you'd have a different opinion.

6. Well here ESPN radio is in third place in Sports radio(another fact to disprove your claim), and I'm sure there is some other way you can obtain sports content you approve of if you choose to not watch ESPN.

1. I consider ESPN to be a component of the Boston media. Not all of it, but a component. However, even if it is only a "component", it is still part of the Boston media.

2. My bet would be on a lifetime ban for Belichick if he was ever caught again. (But then, I had figured cheating on that magnitude would have netted you a suspension in the past.)

3. That's pretty much the only time I can recall something like that happening on a play everybody on the field and in the stadium knew would be a spike.

6. The Indianapolis Journal-Sentinel doesn't give a about St. Louis sports, and FSN Midwest, while it does provide decent content about sports I care about, doesn't do anything for more national stories.

EDIT-Fred, I figured it was worth a try.

[gingerbreadmann]

You are by far the most ignorant person I've ever seen.

1. You have no proof that all the tapes are gone, could have been easily copied and stored where no one can 'find' them.

2. Watching their signals and taking notes is within the rules, videotaping them is AGAINST THE RULES!

3. He already said there's a pattern and a general form that each team uses, and changing said signals doesn't change the basic style of the way they're done.

4. The Patriots running up the score proves that they have NO RESPECT for the teams they play.

5. If someone is doing something illegal, AGAINST YOU no less, you tell on them, end of story.

6. Also, ESPN is essentially Boston media. They may not claim to be, but it's obvious to anyone who isn't a Boston fan.

I guess people have come to the conclusion that anyone who lives in Boston or supports a Boston team is a ****ing stupid ignorant arrogant jerky dumb-ass douchebaggy :censored.gif:.

I feel like I'm being arrested... "anything you say can and will be used against you..." even if it makes sense and is true.

This is obviously useless because it will be blown out of proportion by people like you, Nick.

1. addressed in post 2, Of course I have no proof but Goodell's looking hard and will kill BB if he finds anything out...

2. Sorry, I didn't know that. They should both be against the rules then.

3. I guess you missed it, but I addressed that in the post you quoted. You still have to interpret them, translate them, the form a plan, then actually do it. All within the playclock time.

4. This board as a tiny example, nobody respects them one little bit.

5. Okay, but if it's that simple to break an "unwritten rule" then why can't the Patriots break one?

6. And you call me ignorant? That is the biggest statement of ignorance I have ever seen.

[gingerbreadmann]

Part 2...

1. How could you say that? That boggles my mind. There exists many major newspapers, tv stations, radio stations, etc. in Boston, and across New england, and the fact that you choose to recognize ESPN as all of them is flabbergasting.

2. I'd say there's a VERY big penalty if somebody figures out they still have any...

3. Vrabel? Puh-lease. Now you're just looking for anybody on the Pats who has ever committed a Personal Foul.

4. OK...

5. Well, you might, because most of the people in your area that are Pats fans are probably bandwagoners. I'm sorry that you never have experienced life here... then I'm sure you'd have a different opinion.

6. Well here ESPN radio is in third place in Sports radio(another fact to disprove your claim), and I'm sure there is some other way you can obtain sports content you approve of if you choose to not watch ESPN.

1. I consider ESPN to be a component of the Boston media. Not all of it, but a component. However, even if it is only a "component", it is still part of the Boston media.

2. My bet would be on a lifetime ban for Belichick if he was ever caught again. (But then, I had figured cheating on that magnitude would have netted you a suspension in the past.)

3. That's pretty much the only time I can recall something like that happening on a play everybody on the field and in the stadium knew would be a spike.

6. The Indianapolis Journal-Sentinel doesn't give a about St. Louis sports, and FSN Midwest, while it does provide decent content about sports I care about, doesn't do anything for more national stories.

EDIT-Fred, I figured it was worth a try.

1. I disagree 100% because I actually live here. However, that's obviously not going to change your opinion, so OK.

2. Probably true, so I wouldn't keep any tapes...

3. He is NOT a dirty player.

5. Sorry, I thought you lived in St. Louis.

Hopefully this will be the last post in this ugly (european) war. I offer a truce.

And Fred, I'm not an idiot.

[rams80]

3 final things.

People might go along with the don't snitch philosophy in this case, if it wasn't apparent that New England gained a sizable advantage.

A ban on taking notes from the booth would be nice, but its practically unenforcible. That's probably why it's not banned now.

Oh...and if Vrabel's not dirty he has poor football intelligence and should be cut because that is un-Patriot-like.

[gingerbreadmann]

Oh...and if Vrabel's not dirty he has poor football intelligence and should be cut because that is un-Patriot-like.

Agreed!