2009 NASCAR Season

[oddball]

Carl Long's 200 point, $200,000 fine was upheld. Though he went down swinging.

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/nascar/cup/n...tory?id=4225487

First of all on Danica, she is not coming over. Where will she go? Is she replacing Jr in the 88? It'd be career suicide for her to even think about it. Why? Take a step back and look at what some of the open wheelers have done in the past few years and we aren't talking push-overs. Dario, did okay and kind of got screwed by the economy. Hornish, it's taken 3 years for him to figure things out and while he's been good lately that's just a few races. Max Papis hasn't exactly been stellar, I realize what kind of team he's on, but still. Scott Speed is hype so far. And heck, JPM, who has won the Indy 500 and an F1 title has been average at best. If JPM is average at best, then Danica is a field filler. She's won one race and isn't even a week in week out contender, it's an off and on process with her. If she can't be consistent in the IRL, then forget coming to Nascar. For her to be successful I'd put her on a 6-8 year plan. 2 full years in trucks only, then 2 full years in the Nationwide Series, a year in Nationwide with the 7 allowed Cup races, and then in year 6 I'd let her run for Rookie of the Year in the Cup Series. Any less time than that, and she will just be another name in the books. Mark Martin said that Joey Logano is the best thing to come around in a long time and that was years ago and Joey's been driving stock cars for years and you see what kind of struggles he's had not only in the Cup but the Nationwide Series. If he's struggling that much and he's been raised in stock cars, forget the idea of Danica succeeding. She's smart and knows what is good for her and her career and will stay in the IRL. I wouldn't be shocked to see her with either Penske or Ganassi next year.

As far as Carl Long. Well, I've never seen a dumber move out of person. You had an illegal engine, and he's never disputed that, though it somehow is not his fault. You got caught with that illegal engine and you got punished. You appealed it and the upheld the ruling. You then turn around and criticize them for not caring? You're a nobody that probably has 4 fans, you got caught with one of the three things that you and everyone in the sport knows Nascar hammers a competitor if it's messed with (engine, gas, and tires), you appeal to people who are former owners, track owners, drivers etc. and the agreed with the fine, and then you criticize them? Straight out fool. This is a guy who's 15 minutes of fame was giving DW a ride when DW failed to qualify for the 600 years ago, now he thinks he knows the sport and who runs it and how they run it. Buddy, you just signed your death certificate. I doubt any other racing organization would even think of letting him race for them. If he did something illegal and then criticized the organization that he was in, I don't want him in my organization at all. I know a lot of people will say, "But he didn't purposely cheat." I agree that it wasn't on purpose, but there is a tolerance of what is over the limit and what is illegal. If you pass that grace period, then it's illegal. All his excuses of why it was illegal, don't hold up. What is illegal whether you know it or not, is still illegal. The fine and the suspension both had precedence. Richard Petty in 1983 was fined 183 points for his illegal engine and in 1991 Tim Brewer and Junior Johnson were suspended 12 races for theirs. Grant you the appeals board rescinded much of that suspension, but still what they did to Carl Long is just following their own history as far as dealing with illegal engines. Is the fine and suspension harsh? Yep, but ask Chad Knaus how tweaking a fender at Infineon and sitting 6 races is. Nascar has stated that if you touch the car, you're going to get hammered and you don't use and illegal engine. From 1991 to 2009 there have been how many competitors and how many engines? How many of those have been legal? Many, a lot, oh wait, all of them. They've all swapped out engines, etc. and used old engines and yet they've all fit within the tolerance Nascar sets. He has no argument if thousands of engines have fit within the tolerance and many of those been in the same situation as Carl's have all been legal and fit within the tolerance. It's not that Nascar is heartless, it's the fact that Carl is brainless. Oh and if you want to know how the appeals process works and who was on last year's board here's an article: http://www.nascar.com/2008/news/features/0...sion/index.html. Note the names of Buddy Baker, Lynn St. James, Harry Gant, and Bud Moore. I don't know who exactly it was that was on the board, but I'm pretty sure that his excuse was taken into account and then they sat there and thought of the thousands if not millions of engines that have been legal since the 1991 occurance.

[dfwabel]

"oddball", from your last post:

#1-Spot on concerning Danica. If she was to make a move, her handlers need to get her in at least an ARCA car quickly. IndyCar doesn't race as often, so there is time for her. The fact that she only has open wheel experience is the most valid point, but she does have sponsors in godaddy and Motorola who could get her in if needed. From my research, both can sponsor a car in the Sprint Cup as there is no official domain sponsor or specific official phone. Time will tell, but I also do not think that her only driving Honda within IndyCar is an issue.

#2-NASCAR is still selective to hit small teams harder than large teams. Waltrips Toyota team got hit hard their first year, but it was warranted. Knaus made two separate suspension changes, which is bigger impact than just horsepower, yet got much less time off.

[oddball]

I did some basic math and I know I'm off, but figure the for 18 years since the last engine infraction the Cup Series has had about 40 drivers and lets say 35 weeks, that makes about 28,000 engines in the Cup Series and about 84,000 engines in the top three national touring series that have been legal and within tolerance. So why is it that Carl should get some sort of leniency? The fact that close to 90,000 engines have been legal and a lot of them used like Carls, makes Carl's excuse poor. I'm sorry Carl, there's a reason you couldn't find sponsorship, no one wanted to hire you, and you got caught for an illegal engine. You don't have a brain. Instead of grandstanding like he's doing and playing the victim, he needs to stand up and say, "It was a mistake and it was 100% my fault." If he would've done that, I guarantee you more people would be there to help him. Now that he ripped Nascar, there isn't a person in the garage going to even return his calls. Car Long is actually in as bad of a position as Jeremy Mayfield. They obviously did not pay attention to Roger Clemens and his denial of steroids and how he fought it and how it harmed him. People are more willing to help someone who is sorry. I wouldn't have been shocked to see Tony Stewart, Kevin Harvick, etc. help him out when he came back, but not now. He made a mistake and needs to own up to it and take his punishment quietly and like a man and he would've had so much help from within the garage and the fans, now he will have no help from the garage whatsoever. Jeremy Mayfield has a better chance at racing in Nascar than does Carl Long, because Jeremy hasn't alienated the garage which Carl did with his criticism of Nascar. I'm just waiting for Carl to throw the engine supplier under the bus, because he's not taking responsibility for his mistake.

[DelayedPenalty]

JPM, who has won the Indy 500 and an F1 title has been average at best.

JPM never won an F1 title, just 7 races, but the Indy 500 and a CART title in 1999 though.

Openwheelers in general have had a hard time making the transition to a bigger, heavier, grittier style of racing that is Nascar. Stewart has obviously been the most successful of the bunch, but his background was the USAC Silver Crown series before he went to the IRL, which is very similar to Nascar in many respects. Robby Gordon, JPM, Allmendinger, Hornish, Franchitti, and the others have had moderate success, but none are consistently able to string together solid finishes, or even come close to challenging for a win (except JPM and Robby on road courses). It's not an easy jump, and in many respects it doesn't make much sense for a driver like Danica, or Dario.

Hornish was on the top of his game in Indy Car, but I guess it was time for a change. After an Indy 500 title, 3 series championships, and numerous race wins it was time for a change. Danica has 1 race win, no title, and no reason to make the move to a series where she would be a backmarker, fighting to stay in the top 35 in points every week.

[epper]

...but none are consistently able to string together solid finishes, or even come close to challenging for a win (except JPM and Robby on road courses).

Hey! Robby does have one career oval win!

Just gotta give my boy his due.

[DelayedPenalty]

...but none are consistently able to string together solid finishes, or even come close to challenging for a win (except JPM and Robby on road courses).

Hey! Robby does have one career oval win!

Just gotta give my boy his due.

True, he had some decent results when he drove for Childress.

[whchoclte]

There are a few scenarios where Danica can fit. She can take Truex spot on EGR once he bolts for Waltrip racing. Sure there can be an opening on Yates if Roush says so as McMurray seems destined there. If she was coming over she would have a ride based on appeal alone.

Gibbs could go to 4 cars and take on a Kahne leaving a spot open also.

Dont forget Keslowski will need ride in 2010 also??

[epper]

There are a few scenarios where Danica can fit. She can take Truex spot on EGR once he bolts for Waltrip racing. Sure there can be an opening on Yates if Roush says so as McMurray seems destined there. If she was coming over she would have a ride based on appeal alone.

Gibbs could go to 4 cars and take on a Kahne leaving a spot open also.

Dont forget Keslowski will need ride in 2010 also??

I've heard Keslowski could be loaned out to Stewart-Haas if they expand to 3 cars next year.

[infrared41]

There are a few scenarios where Danica can fit. She can take Truex spot on EGR once he bolts for Waltrip racing. Sure there can be an opening on Yates if Roush says so as McMurray seems destined there. If she was coming over she would have a ride based on appeal alone.

Gibbs could go to 4 cars and take on a Kahne leaving a spot open also.

Dont forget Keslowski will need ride in 2010 also??

I've heard Keslowski could be loaned out to Stewart-Haas if they expand to 3 cars next year.

I could see that. That said, who likes the possibility of Keselowski taking over the 24 car if Jeff Gordon's back forces him into retirement? That's my prediction.

In any case, I can't imagine Mr. Hendrick letting a talent like Keselowski go anywhere from which he can't immediately return.

[oddball]

Back shmack. I see Jeffy running at least another 4-5 years. If anyone replaces Jeffy in the 24, it will be one of two drivers, Joey Logano or Jimmie Johnson. Brad Keselowski is good, but I don't see him as a replacement for Jeffy. Keselowski kind of reminds me of Brian Vickers.

[DelayedPenalty]

There are a few scenarios where Danica can fit. She can take Truex spot on EGR once he bolts for Waltrip racing. Sure there can be an opening on Yates if Roush says so as McMurray seems destined there. If she was coming over she would have a ride based on appeal alone.

Gibbs could go to 4 cars and take on a Kahne leaving a spot open also.

Dont forget Keslowski will need ride in 2010 also??

I've heard Keslowski could be loaned out to Stewart-Haas if they expand to 3 cars next year.

I could see that. That said, who likes the possibility of Keselowski taking over the 24 car if Jeff Gordon's back forces him into retirement? That's my prediction.

In any case, I can't imagine Mr. Hendrick letting a talent like Keselowski go anywhere from which he can't immediately return.

Hendrick supplies Stewart-Haas with cars and engines, he can get his driver back whenever he wants. I think Keselowski on the Haas team would make a lot of sense; give him a place to groom his skills without the high expectations of good results like Vickers and Ky. Busch were under at Hendrick.

Stewart is basically a satellite team of Hendrick, just like the Roush-Yates alliance. It's their way of getting around the 4 car max next season, while still retaining all their drivers.

[infrared41]

There are a few scenarios where Danica can fit. She can take Truex spot on EGR once he bolts for Waltrip racing. Sure there can be an opening on Yates if Roush says so as McMurray seems destined there. If she was coming over she would have a ride based on appeal alone.

Gibbs could go to 4 cars and take on a Kahne leaving a spot open also.

Dont forget Keslowski will need ride in 2010 also??

I've heard Keslowski could be loaned out to Stewart-Haas if they expand to 3 cars next year.

I could see that. That said, who likes the possibility of Keselowski taking over the 24 car if Jeff Gordon's back forces him into retirement? That's my prediction.

In any case, I can't imagine Mr. Hendrick letting a talent like Keselowski go anywhere from which he can't immediately return.

Hendrick supplies Stewart-Haas with cars and engines, he can get his driver back whenever he wants. I think Keselowski on the Haas team would make a lot of sense; give him a place to groom his skills without the high expectations of good results like Vickers and Ky. Busch were under at Hendrick.

Stewart is basically a satellite team of Hendrick, just like the Roush-Yates alliance. It's their way of getting around the 4 car max next season, while still retaining all their drivers.

That's exactly what I meant.

[infrared41]

Back shmack. I see Jeffy running at least another 4-5 years. If anyone replaces Jeffy in the 24, it will be one of two drivers, Joey Logano or Jimmie Johnson. Brad Keselowski is good, but I don't see him as a replacement for Jeffy. Keselowski kind of reminds me of Brian Vickers.

Why would Jimmie Johnson move over to the 24 car? He's pretty well established as the driver of the 48.

[floydnimrod]

Keselwoski to Haas makes a lot of sense. But it won't be all that long until he's back to Hendrick. Jeff Gordon won't be around much longer. He's always had an eye on racing for Corvette in ALMS. I could also see Hendrick slowly stepping down, and turning the reigns over to Gordon to run the team. I know this sounds weird, but soon after Gordon retires, Johnson will be gone too. He said he will only race while the sport is fun for him, and he also said he doesn't see himself in NASCAR for a long time. It's still three to four years away most likely, but don't forget about Landon Cassill, HMS development driver.

[epper]

Back shmack. I see Jeffy running at least another 4-5 years. If anyone replaces Jeffy in the 24, it will be one of two drivers, Joey Logano or Jimmie Johnson.Brad Keselowski is good, but I don't see him as a replacement for Jeffy. Keselowski kind of reminds me of Brian Vickers.

Why would Jimmie Johnson move over to the 24 car? He's pretty well established as the driver of the 48.

And there's no way Gibbs will let Logano go. If he continues to progress I could see him signing a lifetime deal there like Gordon did with HMS.

[NEW.ERA]

Only person I can see stepping into the 24 is Landon Cassill but he's on his way to possibly getting in the 5 when Mark Retires.

[DelayedPenalty]

Only person I can see stepping into the 24 is Landon Cassill but he's on his way to possibly getting in the 5 when Mark Retires.

When Martin retires I could see Keselowski moving into the 5 car, Junior in the 88, Johnson in the 48, then Landon Cassill in the 24 when Jeff retires. Another possibility would be to eliminate the 5 car and have a dispersed crew focus more on a 3 car team, giving each team the best of the best available. Once Gordon or Martin leave I could see sponsorship trouble happening.

[oddball]

Landon Cassill? Michael McDowell has a better shot of replacing Jeff Gordon than does Cassill. Who is Cassill driving for? Why do I say Jimmie replacing Jeff? Simple, Jeff picked Jimmie for Hendrick and would be a perfect replacement in the 24 and then Jeff could groom whoever he wanted in the 48 which he owns. The drivers you are talking about are no where close to being even close to ready, let alone winning on a consistent basis and that is what the 24 and DuPont are, consistent winners. It's why last year when Jeff had no wins, it was a big deal.

[NEW.ERA]

Landon Cassill? Michael McDowell has a better shot of replacing Jeff Gordon than does Cassill. Who is Cassill driving for? Why do I say Jimmie replacing Jeff? Simple, Jeff picked Jimmie for Hendrick and would be a perfect replacement in the 24 and then Jeff could groom whoever he wanted in the 48 which he owns. The drivers you are talking about are no where close to being even close to ready, let alone winning on a consistent basis and that is what the 24 and DuPont are, consistent winners. It's why last year when Jeff had no wins, it was a big deal.

Cassill is a driver in the Hendrick Development team and the Nationwide series.

[oddball]

I've seen so many development drivers never see the light of day. Give me Danny O'Quinn over Landon Cassill. At least O'Quinn's done something in winning Rookie of the Year a couple years ago. I'm not being harsh on Landon, but I'm really getting tired of these development drivers and diversity drivers that it really has become a joke. With the exception of maybe Kyle Busch and Kasey Kahne and I think Kahne was before the driver development fad, I'm really trying to think of these so-called drivers who have developed into something except for a bunch of hype and nothing. Joey Logano, still has a lot to prove. Honestly, if Nascar stays with the non-testing rule, I think you'll start to see that these really young drivers and driver development will go by the wayside for now. Then again why even worry about developing a driver when you could have a proven driver from another team?