Back In The Game?

[Linus]

A bit off topic, but Id love to see an NHL team in Seattle.

If the Coyotes relocate to Hamilton than Id love to see Nashville move to Seattle. I think Seattle could support an NHL team. Im not familiar with the area but does Seattle have an NHL ready arena? I think Seattle/Vancouver would be a huge rivalry and Seattle would recieve support from both Americans and some Canadians who travel over the border, similar to Buffalo.

Seattle has a junior team in the CHL and they seem to be doing fine (not 100% on this but I havent heard anything bad about them).

[The_Admiral]

does Seattle have an NHL ready arena?

No. KeyArena was renovated in such a way that it can't host hockey without severely compromising its capacity. This design was, well, by design: the Supersonics din't want to share the joint with an NHL team.

The window is closed on Seattle, Milwaukee, and really any city with an established and diverse pecking order. To say nothing of arena considerations, I feel like in this age of 24/7/365 sports media, each team has staked out its territory and there's no room left for additional major players. Now with Seattle, you can argue that the Supersonics have left a winter sports void, but that's really a basketball void, and that'll be filled by college ball before hockey. We're really running out of places to go, and I think expansion/relocation after, oh, say 1995 generally bears this out.

[Gothamite]

And I am of the opinion that the NHL, in its current state, will never reach the heights it's aiming for. They're a niche sport on a niche network that has no immediate strategy for broadening their viewing base. In a year which had some of the best hockey played in its post season in ten years they still did half of what their closest competition, the NBA, did. Even in American cities where crowds are good and teams are stable coverage is confined to the back of the sports section.

This is a niche sport. There's no denying that. Trying to go toe-to-toe with the big boys will not end well.

You raise, I think, a salient point.

The NHL obviously sees itself as every bit the equal of the NBA, if not baseball or the NFL. That's why they're clutching on to Phoenix no matter what it costs them, because to move costs them presige.

The NBA, on the other hand, seems resigned to its place at the top of the second tier in sports. That's why they're more than willing to trade Seattle, the 13th largest media market, for Oklahoma City, the 36th.

[Lee.]

Yes, the NBA decided a while ago that rather than be the #3 or 4 draw in some markets, they'd rather move to a smaller town and be the top, or only dog. They knew they'd be a strong 3 or a weaker 2 in Seattle, so by moving to OKC, where there are no other pro teams, they cement their position as 'the only game in town.'

Of course, this hasn't worked in the slightest in Memphis, but hey, they're about due to move soon anyway, aren't they?

[Gothamite]

We'll see.

If the Grizzlies do move, it'll speak wonders about the NBA's approach to business. If something isn't working, you swallow your pride and fix the problem.

The NHL seems to be unwilling to admit that they made a mistake in putting a franchise in Arizona. Doing so may bruise their egos, but that will fade.

[STL FANATIC]

And I am of the opinion that the NHL, in its current state, will never reach the heights it's aiming for. They're a niche sport on a niche network that has no immediate strategy for broadening their viewing base. In a year which had some of the best hockey played in its post season in ten years they still did half of what their closest competition, the NBA, did. Even in American cities where crowds are good and teams are stable coverage is confined to the back of the sports section.

This is a niche sport. There's no denying that. Trying to go toe-to-toe with the big boys will not end well.

You raise, I think, a salient point.

The NHL obviously sees itself as every bit the equal of the NBA, if not baseball or the NFL. That's why they're clutching on to Phoenix no matter what it costs them, because to move costs them presige.

The NBA, on the other hand, seems resigned to its place at the top of the second tier in sports. That's why they're more than willing to trade Seattle, the 13th largest media market, for Oklahoma City, the 36th.

It's not simply about image. It's about future goals.

Shoot for the moon, you might at least hit the stars.

The NHL may full well know that they'll never be up there with the NFL and MLB. They might even see the NBA as a bit of a longshot. But if they set their goals that high and actually do the work to achieve them, they'll ultimately make positive progress.

In the end, even if you consider Nashville and Phoenix failures, you still have Tampa Bay, Raleigh, Anaheim, etc. as your successes. Without trying to "shoot for the moon" in the expansion era, you'd still have a much smaller game and fan base. Failures will happen, but the successes ultimately overshadow them to grow the game.

Now that said, Nashville is still on a slow steady pace of growth, so it's not a failure, not yet anyways.

And the NHL owners (I share this view with them) believe not that they were wrong about the potential of the Phoenix market, but rather that they failed to do the right things to tap that potential. Now they believe with a new owner, a re-visited lease, and a 180 in the way the team is managed that they can actually tap into the potential.

It basically comes down to these two factors.

1. Does 13 years and $400 million lost mean Phoenix can't support hockey or does it mean the right things weren't done to tap into the Phoenix market?

2. Even if the answer to (1) is the latter, can/should the NHL incur more (hopefully decreasing amounts) of debt while it tries to find that potential when a profitable market, albeit it not one that brings growth, is available.

The NHL owners believe that the right things weren't done to tap into the potential of the Phoenix market, and they are apparently willing to incur the debt while they wait for the reward.

And that's what matters.

[STL FANATIC]

We'll see.

If the Grizzlies do move, it'll speak wonders about the NBA's approach to business. If something isn't working, you swallow your pride and fix the problem.

The NHL seems to be unwilling to admit that they made a mistake in putting a franchise in Arizona. Doing so may bruise their egos, but that will fade.

But they don't believe they made a mistake in putting a team there. They believe the mistake was in how they allowed the franchise to be run. And that's what they're trying to fix.

[Gary]

Deadline for Sale Moved Up, Gives time for a potential bid to keep it here in Phoenix

[Gothamite]

We'll see.

If the Grizzlies do move, it'll speak wonders about the NBA's approach to business. If something isn't working, you swallow your pride and fix the problem.

The NHL seems to be unwilling to admit that they made a mistake in putting a franchise in Arizona. Doing so may bruise their egos, but that will fade.

But they don't believe they made a mistake in putting a team there. They believe the mistake was in how they allowed the franchise to be run. And that's what they're trying to fix.

Only time will tell.

Maybe they are right now, and they just blew it. Or maybe this will just be good money after bad, and they'll be in the same position after twenty-five years and a billion dollars wasted.

The history of the Diamondbacks, however, suggests that the market isn't as fertile as the NHL would like to believe.

[Gothamite]

And I am of the opinion that the NHL, in its current state, will never reach the heights it's aiming for. They're a niche sport on a niche network that has no immediate strategy for broadening their viewing base. In a year which had some of the best hockey played in its post season in ten years they still did half of what their closest competition, the NBA, did. Even in American cities where crowds are good and teams are stable coverage is confined to the back of the sports section.

This is a niche sport. There's no denying that. Trying to go toe-to-toe with the big boys will not end well.

You raise, I think, a salient point.

The NHL obviously sees itself as every bit the equal of the NBA, if not baseball or the NFL. That's why they're clutching on to Phoenix no matter what it costs them, because to move costs them presige.

The NBA, on the other hand, seems resigned to its place at the top of the second tier in sports. That's why they're more than willing to trade Seattle, the 13th largest media market, for Oklahoma City, the 36th.

It's not simply about image. It's about future goals.

Shoot for the moon, you might at least hit the stars.

Ah, but first you need the infrastructure to actually build a rocket.

At the risk of further mangling the metaphor, keeping your eyes on the horizon does not mean you don't have to learn to walk before learning how to run.

[twi]

We'll see.

If the Grizzlies do move, it'll speak wonders about the NBA's approach to business. If something isn't working, you swallow your pride and fix the problem.

The NHL seems to be unwilling to admit that they made a mistake in putting a franchise in Arizona. Doing so may bruise their egos, but that will fade.

You don't think it hurts their credibility at all that the same team may be on the move again?

When I see Charotte go to New Orleans, then a new team be granted to Charlotte, Vancouver go to Memphis and then maybe points unknown, and Seattle go to Oklahoma City all in relatively short order I question both the strength of the league and the product if it can't perform satisfactorily in so many places in relatively short succession.

[Mac the Knife]

When I see Charotte go to New Orleans, then a new team be granted to Charlotte, Vancouver go to Memphis and then maybe points unknown, and Seattle go to Oklahoma City all in relatively short order I question both the strength of the league and the product if it can't perform satisfactorily in so many places in relatively short succession.

By that standard, the NFL had a helluva rocky period in the 1990's. Two teams left Los Angeles, one left Cleveland and another left Houston. Franchise movement isn't an indicator of a league's overall strength, merely of that club's ownership (or acquirer) believing he can make more money somewhere else than it can where it is.

[BBTV]

When I see Charotte go to New Orleans, then a new team be granted to Charlotte, Vancouver go to Memphis and then maybe points unknown, and Seattle go to Oklahoma City all in relatively short order I question both the strength of the league and the product if it can't perform satisfactorily in so many places in relatively short succession.

By that standard, the NFL had a helluva rocky period in the 1990's. Two teams left Los Angeles, one left Cleveland and another left Houston. Franchise movement isn't an indicator of a league's overall strength, merely of that club's ownership (or acquirer) believing he can make more money somewhere else than it can where it is.

The NFL would (stupidly) argue that the team didn't leave Cleveland. The Browns just went "inactive" for a couple of seasons. Baltimore was an expansion team....

Sounds stupider every time I think of it.

[Gothamite]

The point remains, though. The NFL had a couple teams move, one of them back to its old market, and it didn't reflect poorly on the status of the league at all.

Would it be a black eye to the NBA if the Grizzlies moved again? Sure, because it would be an admission that they picked a bad relocation spot.

But refusing to admit a mistake can look much, much worse. At least no NBA team has gone bankrupt lately.

[DarkJourney]

I apologize in advance to the good people of Memphis but would anyone here want to play there if they were an NBA player?

[BBTV]

I apologize in advance to the good people of Memphis but would anyone here want to play there if they were an NBA player?

The same could be said about a handful of cities in each pro sport. The answer is "if they pay me enough, sure."

[Jigga]

I apologize in advance to the good people of Memphis but would anyone here want to play there if they were an NBA player?

Soul food, blues, and voluptuous white women with southern accents...

, I'll move down there!

[-kj]

You'll move anywhere there's a booty with a pulse, Jiggs.

[Lee.]

You'll move anywhere there's a booty with a pulse, Jiggs.

Pulse not necessarily a requirement.

You could come to Vancouver, Gregga. Tons of chunky white women, and if you come during non-CFL season, you'll be one of the six black men in town. Tell them you're Oliver Miller, they'll be flinging themselves at you like Red Wings fans fling octopi at center ice.

[Gary]

Reinsdorf offers 148 Million for the Coyotes

So it's not like the 212.5 that Ballsillie was offering, but it is a good offer.