Other Potential NHL Markets

[GuitarPunk2512]

Winnipeg, Quebec City, and Hartford. sorry, the NHL shoudl bring back the original teams. winnipeg should get a team first though. isnt hamilton close to toronto though, so why dig into thier fanbase?

[Burmy]

Seattle- If and when they replace Key Arena, Seattle could be a good fit. Vancouver needs someone to join them in the Pacific Northwest.

Las Vegas- I dont see Las Vegas being the best option. Its not a major league town.

Oklahoma City- A rich hockey history but I cant see it in the NHL.

Kansas City- Nice spankin new arena with nobody in it. Perfect fit at this point. Kansas City has had minor league teams but they think of themselves as a major league town.

Milwaukee- I could see it if they build a new arena.(Is it just me or does the Bradley Center seem out of date?)

Norfolk- Are you serious? Hell will freeze over before they see the NHL, but with the crazy antics of Betteman you never know.

Cleveland- they barely support their AHL team as it is, If Ohio is to have the NHL it needs to stay in Columbus.

Hartford- Too little too late. Its just not a major market anymore.

Baltimore- Get a new arena to replace the dump of an arena they have and its possible.

Houston- Might be able to pull it off. The Toyota Center works perfect and Dallas could use someone nearby.

Winnipeg- If they can expand the MTS Centre then it can work. Id say it would be between them and KC.

Quebec City- If they can replace the Colisee then it could work.

Brooklyn- If they ever get that new arena for the Nets they could bring back the Americans and ship the Islanders to KC or Winnipeg.

My opinions:

1. Seattle - Completely agree with you there. The old Seattle Metropolitans (1910s) were the first US-based team to win the Stanley Cup, plus the junior hockey base is thriving. If that new arena gets built, it's a YES!

2. Las Vegas - There are plenty of sports I connect with "betting," and hockey's not one of them. They should just keep supporting the ECHL Wranglers.

3. OKC - The folks in charge of the arena have already said OKC can't support both an NBA and an NHL team-now that they've got their NBA team, they should just cooperate and help the Blazers try to gain AHL status.

4. KC - SWEEET fit. Arena's all ready, all they need is a team to go there (Don't see why they won't accept an AHL team in the meantime).

5. Milwaukee - Would be my home team. Thriving hockey culture there (though a bit under the radar), only thing they'd need is a new arena (And the Bradley Center isn't all that old, it's just that all the other arenas are so new)

6. Norfolk - No go with their current arena. Maybe if they tried to build a huger replacement for the Scope, we'd see.

7. Cleveland - They admit that they're not fit to be a "four major-league city," so why take a risk they won't?

8. Hartford - A day late and a dollar short. The NHL never knew what they had with the Whalers; they coulda been the Packers of the NHL.

9. Baltimore - New arena AND somebody willing to pay a hefty fee to the Caps.

10. Houston - Now THAT's where they should consider putting the Coyotes. Sweet arena, Aeros get great support, and no realignment needed to work! (the Stars are in the Pacific)

11. Winnipeg - Expand the MTS Centre. The NHL wants 'em back, the city wants a team again, and the fans do too.

12. Quebec City - NEW ARENA. If folks can use the return of the Nordiques as a selling point for one, it's a go.

13. Brooklyn - Maybe the Islanders can consider moving there once the Barclays Center gets built. (I mean, BK's on Long Island, right?)

[rams80]

^^^

I feel the same way with Salt Lake; not the most ideal spot for an NHL team, but better than Phoenix, Atlanta, or Florida. Apparantly, the attendance at Grizzlies games during the Turner Cup (IHL) finals was higher than that at Panthers games when they went to the Stanley Cup finals.

The building formerly known as the Delta Center would make an adaquate temporary home while the E Center gets another 7,000-8,000 seats, or if another building is built.

I'm of the understanding that the NHL and NBA have a bit of an unspoken agreement wherein they don't go head to head in small(er) markets. So perhaps Milwaukee, Cleveland, OKC, and Salt Lake City should be off the board.

[rams80]

Winnipeg, Quebec City, and Hartford. sorry, the NHL shoudl bring back the original teams. winnipeg should get a team first though. isnt hamilton close to toronto though, so why dig into thier fanbase?

What "original teams?" The NHL didn't even crack two decades in those "traditional" markets. Under that logic, Anaheim, Tampa Bay, San Jose, and Miami are "traditional" markets.

[Lee.]

Winnipeg, Quebec City, and Hartford. sorry, the NHL shoudl bring back the original teams. winnipeg should get a team first though. isnt hamilton close to toronto though, so why dig into thier fanbase?

What "original teams?" The NHL didn't even crack two decades in those "traditional" markets. Under that logic, Anaheim, Tampa Bay, San Jose, and Miami are "traditional" markets.

In fairness, those teams were all around for more than 20 years between the WHA and the NHL, and except for the unfortunate existence of Les Rafales in Quebec, the markets have shown great support for the teams that replaced the Jets, Whalers, and Nordiques.

[OMMF]

Some to consider if suitable venue is built:

- Seattle (Key Arena can hold hockey on a temporary basis, but is not a full-time suitable venue)

In order to accommodate the Seattle Thunderbirds, two thirds of KeyArena had to be tarped off. I don't think the NHL would ever allow that, no matter how temporary it would be.

They didn't have to. Obviously, the south end zone seats were unusable but the TBirds wanted the upper deck curtained off to give it a more intimate atmosphere. I don't know that it worked but it did make it special when the arena was so full they had to raise the curtain. By curtaining off the upper deck, it also lowered KeyArena's attendance capacity for hockey and made the team look better attendance-wise, at least on paper.

[Batfan1400]

If I were the NHL higher-ups,I would place struggling teams into markets

that's should've had teams years ago.Let's play devil's advocate...

before Bettman came on the scene,San Jose/S.F.Bay Area('91),

Ottawa+Tampa Bay-St.Pete('92),Anaheim/OC+South Fla.('93)

were already in place ahead of time,so they're excused.

Now to the subject at hand... ,Let's solve the NHL

franchise placement puzzle once and for all.

Nashville,Phoenix and likely Atlanta should NOT

have NHL hockey,but should've been bumped to AHL.

IMO-if Carolina didn't win Lord Stanley's Cup in '06,

I would place them along with the others as well.

MY potential markets minus NHL ice hockey.

1).Seattle,WA or 2).Portland,OR

3).Houston,TX 4).Kansas City,MO

5).Milwaukee,WI 6).Hartford,CT

7).Hamilton,ON 8).Winnipeg,MB

Here are MY possibilites IMO.

Phoenix-Hamilton,Winnipeg or KC

Nashville-KC,Houston or Winnipeg

Atlanta-Hamilton or Winnipeg

The N.Y.Isles will remain in NY state somehow

whether it be on Long Isl. or in B'klyn.

[rams80]

If I were the NHL higher-ups,I would place struggling teams into markets

that's should've had teams years ago.Let's play devil's advocate...

before Bettman came on the scene,San Jose/S.F.Bay Area('91),

Ottawa+Tampa Bay-St.Pete('92),Anaheim/OC+South Fla.('93)

were already in place ahead of time,so they're excused.

Now to the subject at hand... ,Let's solve the NHL

franchise placement puzzle once and for all.

Nashville,Phoenix and likely Atlanta should NOT

have NHL hockey,but should've been bumped to AHL.

IMO-if Carolina didn't win Lord Stanley's Cup in '06,

I would place them along with the others as well.

MY potential markets minus NHL ice hockey.

1).Seattle,WA or 2).Portland,OR

3).Houston,TX 4).Kansas City,MO

5).Milwaukee,WI 6).Hartford,CT

7).Hamilton,ON 8).Winnipeg,MB

Here are MY possibilites IMO.

Phoenix-Hamilton,Winnipeg or KC

Nashville-KC,Houston or Winnipeg

Atlanta-Hamilton or Winnipeg

The N.Y.Isles will remain in NY state somehow

whether it be on Long Isl. or in B'klyn.

[DEAD!]

[crashcarson15]

What I don't get is why a market like KC doesn't have an AHL team while some New England markets are drawing less than 3000 people a game.

[rams80]

What I don't get is why a market like KC doesn't have an AHL team while some New England markets are drawing less than 3000 people a game.

Because they are focused on the NHL methinks.

[crashcarson15]

What I don't get is why a market like KC doesn't have an AHL team while some New England markets are drawing less than 3000 people a game.

Because they are focused on the NHL methinks.

What they should do is take a page from MiLB and have multiple leagues at each level. This could also accomplish the goal of the western markets getting AHL-caliber teams. Maybe something like this is in order:

Kansas City, SLC, Milwaukee, Winnipeg, Seattle, Portland, Houston, San Antonio, Austin, OKC, Regina, Des Moines, Las Vegas, San Diego(?)

Norfolk, Trenton(?), Hamilton, Indianapolis, Hartford, Quebec City, Baltimore, Cleveland, Toronto, Chicago, Grand Rapids, Hershey, Rochester, Syracuse, Albany

[disclaimer]I probably missed a few markets for the eastern league[/disclaimer]

[SenatorJake]

What I don't get is why a market like KC doesn't have an AHL team while some New England markets are drawing less than 3000 people a game.

Because they are focused on the NHL methinks.

What they should do is take a page from MiLB and have multiple leagues at each level. This could also accomplish the goal of the western markets getting AHL-caliber teams. Maybe something like this is in order:

Kansas City, SLC, Milwaukee, Winnipeg, Seattle, Portland, Houston, San Antonio, Austin, OKC, Regina, Des Moines, Las Vegas, San Diego(?)

Norfolk, Trenton(?), Hamilton, Indianapolis, Hartford, Quebec City, Baltimore, Cleveland, Toronto, Chicago, Grand Rapids, Hershey, Rochester, Syracuse, Albany

[disclaimer]I probably missed a few markets for the eastern league[/disclaimer]

While I do think this is a good idea, it's simply too much to change overnight. I suppose Abbotsford and San Antonio are steps in the right direction. Maybe 10 years down the road. Biggest problem is that many of these markets already have a junior hockey franchise commitment.

[rams80]

What I don't get is why a market like KC doesn't have an AHL team while some New England markets are drawing less than 3000 people a game.

Because they are focused on the NHL methinks.

What they should do is take a page from MiLB and have multiple leagues at each level. This could also accomplish the goal of the western markets getting AHL-caliber teams. Maybe something like this is in order:

Kansas City, SLC, Milwaukee, Winnipeg, Seattle, Portland, Houston, San Antonio, Austin, OKC, Regina, Des Moines, Las Vegas, San Diego(?)

Norfolk, Trenton(?), Hamilton, Indianapolis, Hartford, Quebec City, Baltimore, Cleveland, Toronto, Chicago, Grand Rapids, Hershey, Rochester, Syracuse, Albany

[disclaimer]I probably missed a few markets for the eastern league[/disclaimer]

While I do think this is a good idea, it's simply too much to change overnight. I suppose Abbotsford and San Antonio are steps in the right direction. Maybe 10 years down the road. Biggest problem is that many of these markets already have a junior hockey franchise commitment.

San Antonio only exists because Houston does. And the Spurs (they still own them, right?) enjoy having the arena dates filled. Abbotsford has been debated (and mostly bashed) ad nauseum elsewhere.

I pose this query to the board. MiLB does not function as a trial league for markets. Why must the AHL? (in the minds of some, anyway..)

[coggs]

The N.Y.Isles will remain in NY state somehow

whether it be on Long Isl. or in B'klyn.

No chance they move to Brooklyn. Fans from LI are not going to travel to an arena in Brooklyn as it really isn't in a convenient location. Not many trains go from LI to Downtown brooklyn on the LIRR. Maybe 1 for every 10 then go to the city. Changing at Jamaica is a pain. Secondly, parking is terrible in the area. They are also not going to be able to steal fans from the Rangers. Brooklyn and Queens are Rangers strongholds, Nassau County is 50/50.

[Batfan1400]

The N.Y.Isles will remain in NY state somehow

whether it be on Long Isl. or in B'klyn.

No chance they move to Brooklyn. Fans from LI are not going to travel to an arena in Brooklyn as it really isn't in a convenient location. Not many trains go from LI to Downtown brooklyn on the LIRR. Maybe 1 for every 10 then go to the city. Changing at Jamaica is a pain. Secondly, parking is terrible in the area. They are also not going to be able to steal fans from the Rangers. Brooklyn and Queens are Rangers strongholds, Nassau County is 50/50.

Thanks for the lil tidbit.That's making pretty good logical common sense.

I wouldn't travel that much to LI and back vice-versa anyhow.

[DarkJourney]

Is the Barclays Center even going to get built?

[Breakwood]

Toronto apparently

http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/646049

[gozags!]

Some to consider if suitable venue is built:

- Seattle (Key Arena can hold hockey on a temporary basis, but is not a full-time suitable venue)

In order to accommodate the Seattle Thunderbirds, two thirds of KeyArena had to be tarped off. I don't think the NHL would ever allow that, no matter how temporary it would be.

They didn't have to. Obviously, the south end zone seats were unusable but the TBirds wanted the upper deck curtained off to give it a more intimate atmosphere. I don't know that it worked but it did make it special when the arena was so full they had to raise the curtain. By curtaining off the upper deck, it also lowered KeyArena's attendance capacity for hockey and made the team look better attendance-wise, at least on paper.

To give people a more visual idea of how unsuitable KeyArena is for NHL hockey, here's a picture I took from the 07-08 season. Imagine about 2/3 of the upper deck would be used, but as mentioned before, that entire south end (lower and upper) would continue to be curtained. The seating bowl of the arena simply cannot fit a hockey rink... insanely, this was by design. The Sonics' owner during the mid-90s mandated that the remodel of Seattle Coliseum into KeyArena be basketball-specific because he didn't want a hockey team there. Worst move ever IMO, even worse than the Sonics moving.

(Higher-quality pic here)

[BBTV]

Why would any of the upper deck need to be curtained off? Obviously it's not a suitable arena, I'm just curious about that one point.