McCall Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I still say they go after Missouri, WVU, and Virginia Tech.My reasoning for Virginia Tech is now with the additions to the ACC, basketball wise, V-Tech loses a lot in the conference. Atleast if they join the SEC, the competition isn't as tough.The ACC buyout price prevents them from leaving. It's going to be UConn and UCF going to the ACC. UConn goes for obvious reasons. UCF goes because I think the SEC wakes up, and adds WVU, A&M, Louisville, and USF. They'll try to go after USF, but when the SEC offers, the jump. So they turn to the next best option. UCF is the largest university in Florida, and very rich. If they do join, they'll probably expand their stadium to around 60,000 (which I believe is already planned). If they join the ACC, they're competitive enough in the major sports to make the jump.Didn't the Big XII up its buyout penalties after last offseason?The ACC's buyout hike is a symbolic deterrent, not a prohibitive factor. If you want out, you'll find the money to get out.Not to $20M. And with the additions of Pitt and 'Cuse, it seems like the changes they're making will make the current members more inclined to stay put. Quote https://dribbble.com/MakaioCall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I still say they go after Missouri, WVU, and Virginia Tech.My reasoning for Virginia Tech is now with the additions to the ACC, basketball wise, V-Tech loses a lot in the conference. Atleast if they join the SEC, the competition isn't as tough.The ACC buyout price prevents them from leaving. It's going to be UConn and UCF going to the ACC. UConn goes for obvious reasons. UCF goes because I think the SEC wakes up, and adds WVU, A&M, Louisville, and USF. They'll try to go after USF, but when the SEC offers, the jump. So they turn to the next best option. UCF is the largest university in Florida, and very rich. If they do join, they'll probably expand their stadium to around 60,000 (which I believe is already planned). If they join the ACC, they're competitive enough in the major sports to make the jump.Again, the buyout is simply a starting point for negotiations, not some devastating MAD-scale deterrent and is about as believable a deterrent as a buyout fee of ONE BILLION DOLLARS. You could make up much of the buyout simply by withholding revenue sharing a la Nebraska and Colorado. Quote On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCall Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I still say they go after Missouri, WVU, and Virginia Tech.My reasoning for Virginia Tech is now with the additions to the ACC, basketball wise, V-Tech loses a lot in the conference. Atleast if they join the SEC, the competition isn't as tough.The ACC buyout price prevents them from leaving. It's going to be UConn and UCF going to the ACC. UConn goes for obvious reasons. UCF goes because I think the SEC wakes up, and adds WVU, A&M, Louisville, and USF. They'll try to go after USF, but when the SEC offers, the jump. So they turn to the next best option. UCF is the largest university in Florida, and very rich. If they do join, they'll probably expand their stadium to around 60,000 (which I believe is already planned). If they join the ACC, they're competitive enough in the major sports to make the jump.Again, the buyout is simply a starting point for negotiations, not some devastating MAD-scale deterrent and is about as believable a deterrent as a buyout fee of ONE BILLION DOLLARS. You could make up much of the buyout simply by withholding revenue sharing a la Nebraska and Colorado.And again, that doesn't mean the teams will try to get out when there's becoming fewer reasons for them to leave. Quote https://dribbble.com/MakaioCall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrdevil Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I still say they go after Missouri, WVU, and Virginia Tech.My reasoning for Virginia Tech is now with the additions to the ACC, basketball wise, V-Tech loses a lot in the conference. Atleast if they join the SEC, the competition isn't as tough.The ACC buyout price prevents them from leaving. It's going to be UConn and UCF going to the ACC. UConn goes for obvious reasons. UCF goes because I think the SEC wakes up, and adds WVU, A&M, Louisville, and USF. They'll try to go after USF, but when the SEC offers, the jump. So they turn to the next best option. UCF is the largest university in Florida, and very rich. If they do join, they'll probably expand their stadium to around 60,000 (which I believe is already planned). If they join the ACC, they're competitive enough in the major sports to make the jump.There has been no talk of UCF to the ACC. Rutgers may end up being the 16th. No one is leaving the ACC. The price is too high. UWV, Mizzou and Louisville are the top possibilities for the SEC. If they go 16, could be all 3. If Notre Dame does indeed go to the Big Ten, then they need to find a 14th or more. Then Mizzou really becomes a hot commodity for both conferences. And with the Big East basically dismantling, TCU could come back into play as well.There was no previous talk of Pittsburg and Syracuse to the ACC either. Nobody wants Rutgers. They bring nothing to the table but mediocre football and women's basketball. I think they join either the B1G because the B1G becomes desperate after they realize all the teams they wanted are gone, or they go to some other conference made up of all of the other BCS teams that were left behind. I think MIzzou goes to the B1G. It makes more geographical sense, and I'm not sure they want to compete in the SEC.UCF is the same as Rutgers, mediocre in both and not nearly the academic level. Their best bet at improvement woul be a stripped down Big East. And as the fact that you didn't hear about Pitt or 'Cuse, UCF is not big time playmakers like them. No one cares about what UCF might do or cares if they plan to do anything.Except UCF is better at both sports than Rutgers, they are located in metropolitan Orlando, and they are the biggest university in Florida, with over 56,000 students. They're also stinking rich. They would compete in the ACC much better than Rutgers could.UCF isn't close enough academically to the other ACC schools. Going by the US News & World Report rankings are 177 academically. The other ACC schools rankings: Duke-5, UVA-25, Wake-25, UNC- 29, BC- 31, Ga Tech- 36, Miami- 38, Maryland- 55, Pitt-58, Syracuse- 62, Clemson- 68, Va Tech- 71, FSU- 101, NC State-101. The other said possibilities from the Big East Rutgers and UConn both fall about in the middle of the conference academically. Ultimately these decisions are being made by the school presidents who are academics, so that part is going to matter because these are the other schools you get associated with. Much like with the Big Ten, academics is a big issue with the ACC Presidents. Plus with FSU they already have the Orlando market. FSU is is a big state school so it already gives the conference all the markets in the State. Add on top of that Miami and they are settled nicely in Florida. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I still say they go after Missouri, WVU, and Virginia Tech.My reasoning for Virginia Tech is now with the additions to the ACC, basketball wise, V-Tech loses a lot in the conference. Atleast if they join the SEC, the competition isn't as tough.The ACC buyout price prevents them from leaving. It's going to be UConn and UCF going to the ACC. UConn goes for obvious reasons. UCF goes because I think the SEC wakes up, and adds WVU, A&M, Louisville, and USF. They'll try to go after USF, but when the SEC offers, the jump. So they turn to the next best option. UCF is the largest university in Florida, and very rich. If they do join, they'll probably expand their stadium to around 60,000 (which I believe is already planned). If they join the ACC, they're competitive enough in the major sports to make the jump.Didn't the Big XII up its buyout penalties after last offseason?The ACC's buyout hike is a symbolic deterrent, not a prohibitive factor. If you want out, you'll find the money to get out.Not to $20M. And with the additions of Pitt and 'Cuse, it seems like the changes they're making will make the current members more inclined to stay put.Nebraska negotiated theirs down to $10 million. Since we can all assume that TV deals are going to end up being renegotiated for $Texas dollars, what is another ten million if it means membership in the Big Ten or SEC. The current Big Ten tv deals paid out more than $20 million last season. Again, it sounds nice to the people, but it is not an impenetrable barrier by any means. Quote On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thespleenenator Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 They also don't have the Big East connections to the current, future and possible ACC members. They may end up having to take them as a package deal with UConn. UCF is simply not a player. They're a last resort when your other last resorts, like South Florida, don't pan out.Which is what I'm saying would happen. I think you're heavily underestimating just how huge and powerful UCF is. If they want to, they could become a player. Quote Why you make fun of me? I make concept for Auburn champions and you make fun of me. I cry tears.Chopping off the dicks of Filipino boys and embracing causes that promote bigotry =/= strong moral character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCall Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I still say they go after Missouri, WVU, and Virginia Tech.My reasoning for Virginia Tech is now with the additions to the ACC, basketball wise, V-Tech loses a lot in the conference. Atleast if they join the SEC, the competition isn't as tough.The ACC buyout price prevents them from leaving. It's going to be UConn and UCF going to the ACC. UConn goes for obvious reasons. UCF goes because I think the SEC wakes up, and adds WVU, A&M, Louisville, and USF. They'll try to go after USF, but when the SEC offers, the jump. So they turn to the next best option. UCF is the largest university in Florida, and very rich. If they do join, they'll probably expand their stadium to around 60,000 (which I believe is already planned). If they join the ACC, they're competitive enough in the major sports to make the jump.Didn't the Big XII up its buyout penalties after last offseason?The ACC's buyout hike is a symbolic deterrent, not a prohibitive factor. If you want out, you'll find the money to get out.Not to $20M. And with the additions of Pitt and 'Cuse, it seems like the changes they're making will make the current members more inclined to stay put.Nebraska negotiated theirs down to $10 million. Since we can all assume that TV deals are going to end up being renegotiated for $Texas dollars, what is another ten million if it means membership in the Big Ten or SEC. The current Big Ten tv deals paid out more than $20 million last season. Again, it sounds nice to the people, but it is not an impenetrable barrier by any means.Wow. Ok, the current members of the ACC now seem to be fine with staying in the ACC. So why would they try to leave simply just to say they got around the buyout? Just because you think they can, doesn't mean they're going to when all signs are pointing to them NOT leaving. The ACC has now aligned itself up pretty well for the potential superconferences and appear to only be "buyers" not "sellers". Quote https://dribbble.com/MakaioCall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCall Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 They also don't have the Big East connections to the current, future and possible ACC members. They may end up having to take them as a package deal with UConn. UCF is simply not a player. They're a last resort when your other last resorts, like South Florida, don't pan out.Which is what I'm saying would happen. I think you're heavily underestimating just how huge and powerful UCF is. If they want to, they could become a player.An you have no idea just how laughable that is. And I was saying schools like USF aren't even players so UCF is far down on the list. Quote https://dribbble.com/MakaioCall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thespleenenator Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 They also don't have the Big East connections to the current, future and possible ACC members. They may end up having to take them as a package deal with UConn. UCF is simply not a player. They're a last resort when your other last resorts, like South Florida, don't pan out.Which is what I'm saying would happen. I think you're heavily underestimating just how huge and powerful UCF is. If they want to, they could become a player.An you have no idea just how laughable that is. And I was saying schools like USF aren't even players so UCF is far down on the list.O rly?http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/college/knights/os-ucf-fiu-sidebar-0918-20110917,0,2585716.story Quote Why you make fun of me? I make concept for Auburn champions and you make fun of me. I cry tears.Chopping off the dicks of Filipino boys and embracing causes that promote bigotry =/= strong moral character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanMcD29 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Well, I guess at the very least you haven't brought up FIU yet... Quote Twitter: @RyanMcD29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thespleenenator Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Well, I guess at the very least you haven't brought up FIU yet...He was saying UCF wasn't a player, and I proved him otherwise. Quote Why you make fun of me? I make concept for Auburn champions and you make fun of me. I cry tears.Chopping off the dicks of Filipino boys and embracing causes that promote bigotry =/= strong moral character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCall Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 They also don't have the Big East connections to the current, future and possible ACC members. They may end up having to take them as a package deal with UConn. UCF is simply not a player. They're a last resort when your other last resorts, like South Florida, don't pan out.Which is what I'm saying would happen. I think you're heavily underestimating just how huge and powerful UCF is. If they want to, they could become a player.An you have no idea just how laughable that is. And I was saying schools like USF aren't even players so UCF is far down on the list.O rly?http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/college/knights/os-ucf-fiu-sidebar-0918-20110917,0,2585716.storySo they're the Rebecca Black of the NCAA. Quote https://dribbble.com/MakaioCall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCall Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Well, I guess at the very least you haven't brought up FIU yet...He was saying UCF wasn't a player, and I proved him otherwise.No you didn't. You just proved that UCF thinks higher of themselves than everybody else does. Quote https://dribbble.com/MakaioCall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I still say they go after Missouri, WVU, and Virginia Tech.My reasoning for Virginia Tech is now with the additions to the ACC, basketball wise, V-Tech loses a lot in the conference. Atleast if they join the SEC, the competition isn't as tough.The ACC buyout price prevents them from leaving. It's going to be UConn and UCF going to the ACC. UConn goes for obvious reasons. UCF goes because I think the SEC wakes up, and adds WVU, A&M, Louisville, and USF. They'll try to go after USF, but when the SEC offers, the jump. So they turn to the next best option. UCF is the largest university in Florida, and very rich. If they do join, they'll probably expand their stadium to around 60,000 (which I believe is already planned). If they join the ACC, they're competitive enough in the major sports to make the jump.Again, the buyout is simply a starting point for negotiations, not some devastating MAD-scale deterrent and is about as believable a deterrent as a buyout fee of ONE BILLION DOLLARS. You could make up much of the buyout simply by withholding revenue sharing a la Nebraska and Colorado.And again, that doesn't mean the teams will try to get out when there's becoming fewer reasons for them to leave.1. Can you seriously tell me that if you are Clemson or Florida State and the SEC comes by and says "Hey, you guys want in?", they wouldn't jump? They damn well would bail faster than Cracky the Tiger could go through crack cut with meth and they damn well could find the money to do so since we're talking about large state institutions (What's another thousand dollars in semester tuition? It's just loan money and the students expect the hikes at this point). The SEC is just more attractive to the ACC's more Southern, football-oriented members. (FWIW I suspect Tobacco Road et. al. would shed fewer tears about being rid of those football playing ruffians than some seem to think.)2. Lost in this general brouhaha is another problem regarding the stability of the ACC's current membership-namely the fact that the NCAA is going to be napalming the out of Miami's athletic department at minimum. There's a good chance the NCAA may just drop Little Boy on Miami Gardens and consign the beast to the South Florida swamps from whence it came. How stable can you be if you're worried one of your ostensible football flagships is about to become a 21st Century SMU. Quote On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatsFan2004 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Except UCF is better at both sports than Rutgers, they are located in metropolitan Orlando, and they are the biggest university in Florida, with over 56,000 students. They're also stinking rich. They would compete in the ACC much better than Rutgers could.Are you referring to the school endowment or the worth of the donor base or contributions to the Athletic Fund? In any case, how rich is stinking rich? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I still say they go after Missouri, WVU, and Virginia Tech.My reasoning for Virginia Tech is now with the additions to the ACC, basketball wise, V-Tech loses a lot in the conference. Atleast if they join the SEC, the competition isn't as tough.The ACC buyout price prevents them from leaving. It's going to be UConn and UCF going to the ACC. UConn goes for obvious reasons. UCF goes because I think the SEC wakes up, and adds WVU, A&M, Louisville, and USF. They'll try to go after USF, but when the SEC offers, the jump. So they turn to the next best option. UCF is the largest university in Florida, and very rich. If they do join, they'll probably expand their stadium to around 60,000 (which I believe is already planned). If they join the ACC, they're competitive enough in the major sports to make the jump.Didn't the Big XII up its buyout penalties after last offseason?The ACC's buyout hike is a symbolic deterrent, not a prohibitive factor. If you want out, you'll find the money to get out.Not to $20M. And with the additions of Pitt and 'Cuse, it seems like the changes they're making will make the current members more inclined to stay put.Nebraska negotiated theirs down to $10 million. Since we can all assume that TV deals are going to end up being renegotiated for $Texas dollars, what is another ten million if it means membership in the Big Ten or SEC. The current Big Ten tv deals paid out more than $20 million last season. Again, it sounds nice to the people, but it is not an impenetrable barrier by any means.Wow. Ok, the current members of the ACC now seem to be fine with staying in the ACC. So why would they try to leave simply just to say they got around the buyout? Just because you think they can, doesn't mean they're going to when all signs are pointing to them NOT leaving. The ACC has now aligned itself up pretty well for the potential superconferences and appear to only be "buyers" not "sellers".And I'm sure Florida State and Clemson are perfectly fine with sticking in the ACC. Right up until Mike Silve calls Tallahassee and Clemson. Just because the ACC looks to survive doesn't mean you cannot still improve your lot in life. Quote On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thespleenenator Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 For those of you saying that UCF doesn't have the acdemics:In 2011, UCF was rated 33rd among the "Best Values in Public Colleges" in the United States by Kiplinger,[86] and as one of the "50 Best Value Public Universities" by USA Today and The Princeton Review.[87] In its 2012 edition of Best Colleges, U.S. News & World Report ranks UCF 97th among public universities and 177th overall on the list of Tier I National Universities,[88][89] in addition to being the fourth-best "Up-and-Coming" national university.[7] UCF is also ranked as a "Best Southeastern College" by The Princeton Review.[90]Taken from the wikipedia page. And unlike many wikipedia pages, this page actually cited their sources. Quote Why you make fun of me? I make concept for Auburn champions and you make fun of me. I cry tears.Chopping off the dicks of Filipino boys and embracing causes that promote bigotry =/= strong moral character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Island_Style Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I think the ACC getting Pitt and Syracuse shows that they are more committed to basketball. FSU's bread & butter is football. They need to go to the SEC. I am hoping that Pitt and Syracuse are replacements for FSU and another ACC to the SEC school. 20 mil is not a lot of money to major programs. More like a NFL pay-roll. Maybe they approved the hike as a thank you to the ACC. Hopefully they were waiting on replacements before they left out of respect. My hope, But I know better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCall Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I still say they go after Missouri, WVU, and Virginia Tech.My reasoning for Virginia Tech is now with the additions to the ACC, basketball wise, V-Tech loses a lot in the conference. Atleast if they join the SEC, the competition isn't as tough.The ACC buyout price prevents them from leaving. It's going to be UConn and UCF going to the ACC. UConn goes for obvious reasons. UCF goes because I think the SEC wakes up, and adds WVU, A&M, Louisville, and USF. They'll try to go after USF, but when the SEC offers, the jump. So they turn to the next best option. UCF is the largest university in Florida, and very rich. If they do join, they'll probably expand their stadium to around 60,000 (which I believe is already planned). If they join the ACC, they're competitive enough in the major sports to make the jump.Again, the buyout is simply a starting point for negotiations, not some devastating MAD-scale deterrent and is about as believable a deterrent as a buyout fee of ONE BILLION DOLLARS. You could make up much of the buyout simply by withholding revenue sharing a la Nebraska and Colorado.And again, that doesn't mean the teams will try to get out when there's becoming fewer reasons for them to leave.1. Can you seriously tell me that if you are Clemson or Florida State and the SEC comes by and says "Hey, you guys want in?", they wouldn't jump? They damn well would bail faster than Cracky the Tiger could go through crack cut with meth and they damn well could find the money to do so since we're talking about large state institutions (What's another thousand dollars in semester tuition? It's just loan money and the students expect the hikes at this point). The SEC is just more attractive to the ACC's more Southern, football-oriented members. (FWIW I suspect Tobacco Road et. al. would shed fewer tears about being rid of those football playing ruffians than some seem to think.)2. Lost in this general brouhaha is another problem regarding the stability of the ACC's current membership-namely the fact that the NCAA is going to be napalming the out of Miami's athletic department at minimum. There's a good chance the NCAA may just drop Little Boy on Miami Gardens and consign the beast to the South Florida swamps from whence it came. How stable can you be if you're worried one of your ostensible football flagships is about to become a 21st Century SMU.1. The SEC isn't knocking on their doors at this time. And it's a big possibility that UWV may be the 14th member.2. If the Miami situation was that big of a scare, do you think Pitt and 'Cuse would really be that anxious to join? What happens to the U isn't necessarily going to affect the other schools. Quote https://dribbble.com/MakaioCall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lights Out Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 They damn well would bail faster than Cracky the Tiger could go through crack cut with methHEY GUYS HEY GUYS HEY GUYSLAST NIGHT I THREW A WILD PARTY AND WENT THROUGH TEN 8-BALLS AND WHEN I FINALLY STOPPED TRIPPING AND WOKE UP I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED BUT NOW MY DEALER SCRATCH SAYS I'M S'POSED TO BE SEC! Quote POTD: 2/4/12 3/4/12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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