Division 1 College Conference Realignment

[McCall]

As of the most recent NCAA manual, in order for a conference to be eligible for an automatic bid, the conference must hold championships in six men's sports, two of which must be team sports.

Article 18.5.3

At least your citing something sid.

However, I still read on different articles googled (espn, sporting news, etc) from the announcement of their departure in December that they do indeed get to keep it and the Big East would need to re-apply for one, though that it was more than likely to be approved. Not disagreeing with the notion that don't keep it, but I'm just not seeing it actually stated anywhere that they, the actual "Catholic 7" and not just a general rule, don't get to keep it. If it is, please show me where. I'm just trying to get the actual facts straight.

Article 31.3.4 goes over the main requirements for automatic conference bids but Men's Division 1 Basketball as more conditions, like the one I posted previously.

Article 20.02.5 defines multi-sport conference membership and gives the guidelines which you are talking about, line Continuity (20.02.5.4) as well as the two year Grace Period (20.02.5.5), but a Grace Period is defined for a conference which becomes non-compliant, not a newly formed one with members who were together for eight consecutive years.

And specifically for Men's Basketball, current Bylaws require that the tournament has a minimum of 34 at-large bids. Breakaway conferences may help the push past 68 teams.

WHY?!?!!

64 is such a perfect number for this tournament. I don't have a problem with making new conferences prove themselves worthy of an auto-bid, but once they earn it, it should come from one of the at-large spots.

Umm... they haven't been at 64 for several years now. But I agree, any new autobids should come out of the at-large pool. I'm fine with 68, they just need to make all the "play-in" games be the last of the at-large schools playing into like the 12th/13th seeds. Whatever the highest seeds are before you get into the lower autobid schools from the smaller conferences. Theoretically they could go to 72 and have 2 play-in games per region. I'd prefer it stay at 68, but never any more than 72.

[illwauk]

As of the most recent NCAA manual, in order for a conference to be eligible for an automatic bid, the conference must hold championships in six men's sports, two of which must be team sports.

Article 18.5.3

At least your citing something sid.

However, I still read on different articles googled (espn, sporting news, etc) from the announcement of their departure in December that they do indeed get to keep it and the Big East would need to re-apply for one, though that it was more than likely to be approved. Not disagreeing with the notion that don't keep it, but I'm just not seeing it actually stated anywhere that they, the actual "Catholic 7" and not just a general rule, don't get to keep it. If it is, please show me where. I'm just trying to get the actual facts straight.

Article 31.3.4 goes over the main requirements for automatic conference bids but Men's Division 1 Basketball as more conditions, like the one I posted previously.

Article 20.02.5 defines multi-sport conference membership and gives the guidelines which you are talking about, line Continuity (20.02.5.4) as well as the two year Grace Period (20.02.5.5), but a Grace Period is defined for a conference which becomes non-compliant, not a newly formed one with members who were together for eight consecutive years.

And specifically for Men's Basketball, current Bylaws require that the tournament has a minimum of 34 at-large bids. Breakaway conferences may help the push past 68 teams.

WHY?!?!!

64 is such a perfect number for this tournament. I don't have a problem with making new conferences prove themselves worthy of an auto-bid, but once they earn it, it should come from one of the at-large spots.

Umm... they haven't been at 64 for several years now. But I agree, any new autobids should come out of the at-large pool. I'm fine with 68, they just need to make all the "play-in" games be the last of the at-large schools playing into like the 12th/13th seeds. Whatever the highest seeds are before you get into the lower autobid schools from the smaller conferences. Theoretically they could go to 72 and have 2 play-in games per region. I'd prefer it stay at 68, but never any more than 72.

I know that... it doesn't change what I said. The reason 64 is perfect is because every team in the tournament plays the same number of games. If they're willing to have uneven brackets again, then the number of at-large bids should be reduced, not expanded.

Though I do agree the play-in games should always be between at-large teams. Not only would this mean better, more well-known (read: ratings) teams, but you don't end up punishing autobid teams for playing in small conferences.

[ESTONES6]

Has anyone thought about the B16 TEN adding basketball only schools? I'm curious to see the financial benefit it could add to the BTN contract.

You'd think folks would have learned from the self-destruction of the Big East, but to answer your question, there is no financial benefit that outweighs the structural instability that comes from a football league adding members who don't get this football thing.

The Big East was a basketball conference with a couple football members. The B16 TEN is a football conference that has some good basketball. If it were to work with ANY conference, it would be the B16 TEN.

The instability of the Big East came from many of the major basketball schools Not having football. That's not the case with the B16 TEN. If the basketball schools want to leave, they can leave. It could actually work.

Comparing the Big East to the B16 TEN is pretty naive.

[rams80]

As of the most recent NCAA manual, in order for a conference to be eligible for an automatic bid, the conference must hold championships in six men's sports, two of which must be team sports.

Article 18.5.3

At least your citing something sid.

However, I still read on different articles googled (espn, sporting news, etc) from the announcement of their departure in December that they do indeed get to keep it and the Big East would need to re-apply for one, though that it was more than likely to be approved. Not disagreeing with the notion that don't keep it, but I'm just not seeing it actually stated anywhere that they, the actual "Catholic 7" and not just a general rule, don't get to keep it. If it is, please show me where. I'm just trying to get the actual facts straight.

The autobid is tied to the Conference. Not any members or groups of members that choose to exit en masse. Once it became apparent they would not be able to kill the Big East, whatever slim chance they had of bringing an instant autobid with them went out the window. This isn't like a divorce where assets get to be parceled out by a judge. This is the dumbass kid storming out of the house and turning his back on it with only the clothes on his back.

As was put out there by numerous sources, any group of at least 7 schools that have been together for at least 5 years can retain an automatic bid. Now, other factors, such as what dfwabel posted, may prevent them from keeping it, but you seem to just be going with your own personal opinion as fact.

What did the (secondary) media sources cite as basis for their statements? Media can and has gotten stuff wrong in relation to this because research is for pussies.

And this is not opinion, I've seen it cited elsewhere from people who do, do research.

[rams80]

The Big East was a basketball conference with a couple football members. The B16 TEN is a football conference that has some good basketball. If it were to work with ANY conference, it would be the B16 TEN.

More than half of the Big East schools of the mid-to-late 2000s alignment played football on the Division I-A level; with those same members providing the bulk of the Big East's basketball strength and success. Additionally, the 2 of the 3 successful "basketball" schools also had I-AA football teams (Marquette is the one exception). It may have been run by the weaker basketball only members, but football did more than exist for the Big East.

The instability of the Big East came from many of the major basketball schools Not having football. That's not the case with the B16 TEN. If the basketball schools want to leave, they can leave. It could actually work.

There are only 5 Big East schools that did not field football at any level. The issue was that these schools carried far more weight in terms of influence and power within the league than their success and money brought to the table merited and used that weight to further policies that were contrary to the interest of the football schools.

If any school leaves, its a sign of instability for the Conference and could serve to break up the league further. As the cultural differences between a basketball only school and a normal Big Ten football power would be great, it is likely any marriage would fall apart to the detriment of the league.

Comparing the Big East to the B16 TEN is pretty naive.

It's a very cautionary tale. One that some here would do well to remember.

[McCall]

As of the most recent NCAA manual, in order for a conference to be eligible for an automatic bid, the conference must hold championships in six men's sports, two of which must be team sports.

Article 18.5.3

At least your citing something sid.

However, I still read on different articles googled (espn, sporting news, etc) from the announcement of their departure in December that they do indeed get to keep it and the Big East would need to re-apply for one, though that it was more than likely to be approved. Not disagreeing with the notion that don't keep it, but I'm just not seeing it actually stated anywhere that they, the actual "Catholic 7" and not just a general rule, don't get to keep it. If it is, please show me where. I'm just trying to get the actual facts straight.

The autobid is tied to the Conference. Not any members or groups of members that choose to exit en masse. Once it became apparent they would not be able to kill the Big East, whatever slim chance they had of bringing an instant autobid with them went out the window. This isn't like a divorce where assets get to be parceled out by a judge. This is the dumbass kid storming out of the house and turning his back on it with only the clothes on his back.

As was put out there by numerous sources, any group of at least 7 schools that have been together for at least 5 years can retain an automatic bid. Now, other factors, such as what dfwabel posted, may prevent them from keeping it, but you seem to just be going with your own personal opinion as fact.

What did the (secondary) media sources cite as basis for their statements? Media can and has gotten stuff wrong in relation to this because research is for pussies.

And this is not opinion, I've seen it cited elsewhere from people who do, do research.

Then where are your sources? Because quite frankly I find all these other websites more credible than just your word on the matter. Even dfwabel posted a legit citation that actually backs articles I've read, just that there are other factors as well. You just... well, you said nothing worth anything, really.

[rams80]

There is an important yet fine distinction at work here. This is not an existing Conference trying to keep an autobid. This is a new Conference applying to the NCAA for a new autobid. And that means there will be a waiting period before they get one. How long? Probably a season or so. They'll get one eventually, but the operative word is "eventually."

[McCall]

I'm still trying to find the rule (maybe dfwabel can find the rule number), but reading websites and forums with people who at least are explaining the rule, the 7/5 does indeed exist and groups of teams forming a new conference by splitting from an existing conference can indeed retain their autobid, assuming they meet the other requirements. They are keeping enough members together to at least be elgible to keep it.

Again, where's your sources saying otherwise?

[dfwabel]

There probably will be characters which will come up emotions, but I am too lazy to edit:

31.3.4.2 Requirements—National Collegiate Championship. [#] To be eligible for automatic qualification

in a National Collegiate Championship, a member conference must meet the following general requirements:

(Adopted: 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06)

(a) Have at least six active members that sponsor the applicable sport in any division (Note: A provisional

member in the process of becoming an NCAA member cannot be used to meet the requisite number.);

( The six active members must have conducted conference competition together for the preceding two

years in the applicable sport;

© There shall be no waivers of the two-year waiting period; and

(d) Any new member added to a conference that is eligible for an automatic bid shall be immediately eligible

to represent the conference as the automatic qualifier.

31.3.4.5 Additional Requirements, Men’s Basketball. To be considered eligible for automatic qualification

in men’s basketball, a member conference must be a core conference (see Bylaw 31.02.3) and must meet the

requirements of Bylaw 20.02.6. (Revised: 8/14/90, 12/3/90, 4/27/00, 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04, 1/15/11 effective

8/1/11)

31.3.4.5.1 Grace Period. A conference shall remain eligible for automatic qualification for two years

following the date of withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference’s membership to fall below

seven institutions that sponsor the sport and conduct conference competition together (see Bylaw 20.02.6).

(Adopted: 4/27/00, Revised: 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

[rams80]

I'm still trying to find the rule (maybe dfwabel can find the rule number), but reading websites and forums with people who at least are explaining the rule, the 7/5 does indeed exist and groups of teams forming a new conference by splitting from an existing conference can indeed retain their autobid, assuming they meet the other requirements. They are keeping enough members together to at least be elgible to keep it.

Again, where's your sources saying otherwise?

The NCAA's denial of AQ status for the Great West Conference kind of speaks for itself really.

[McCall]

I'm still trying to find the rule (maybe dfwabel can find the rule number), but reading websites and forums with people who at least are explaining the rule, the 7/5 does indeed exist and groups of teams forming a new conference by splitting from an existing conference can indeed retain their autobid, assuming they meet the other requirements. They are keeping enough members together to at least be elgible to keep it.

Again, where's your sources saying otherwise?

The NCAA's denial of AQ status for the Great West Conference kind of speaks for itself really.

Not really.

[rams80]

I'm still trying to find the rule (maybe dfwabel can find the rule number), but reading websites and forums with people who at least are explaining the rule, the 7/5 does indeed exist and groups of teams forming a new conference by splitting from an existing conference can indeed retain their autobid, assuming they meet the other requirements. They are keeping enough members together to at least be elgible to keep it.

Again, where's your sources saying otherwise?

The NCAA's denial of AQ status for the Great West Conference kind of speaks for itself really.

Not really.

Yeah it does. That league was going to hit the criteria the NCAA wanted, and they still were refusing to fast track AQ status.

Look, I'm not saying they will never get autobid status. I am saying that they won't get an autobid as soon as they are created because of existing. They will have to apply for one, and while they will likely get it, they likely will not get it in time for the inaugural season. See also: Inaugural Mountain West Conference basketball season. (UNLV and Utah did make the 2000 NCAA tournament, but as at larges).

[McCall]

The Great West wasn't an all-sport conference until 2008-09. Before it was football only.

[rams80]

The Great West wasn't an all-sport conference until 2008-09. Before it was football only.

And it's approaching the 5 year anniversary and the NCAA was still saying no and this wasn't going to change any time soon. That's one of the underlying reasons why everybody bailed out of the Conference a few weeks ago-the WAC still has autobid status.

And you ignored everything else I said. The Mountain West example is rather relevant here.

[McCall]

The Great West wasn't an all-sport conference until 2008-09. Before it was football only.

And it's approaching the 5 year anniversary and the NCAA was still saying no and this wasn't going to change any time soon. That's one of the underlying reasons why everybody bailed out of the Conference a few weeks ago-the WAC still has autobid status.

And you ignored everything else I said. The Mountain West example is rather relevant here.

And you've ignored all the rules that were posted, what's your point?

[rams80]

The Great West wasn't an all-sport conference until 2008-09. Before it was football only.

And it's approaching the 5 year anniversary and the NCAA was still saying no and this wasn't going to change any time soon. That's one of the underlying reasons why everybody bailed out of the Conference a few weeks ago-the WAC still has autobid status.

And you ignored everything else I said. The Mountain West example is rather relevant here.

And you've ignored all the rules that were posted, what's your point?

The rules posted don't say a new Conference gets an autobid just by existing.

[McCall]

No one said they did simply because they exist, but rather because they've been a group of 7 schools TOGETHER for at least 5 years.

[rams80]

No one said they did simply because they exist, but rather because they've been a group of 7 schools TOGETHER for at least 5 years.

Yes, but they are a new Conference. That is what's more important. That they've been together is why their application will be approved, but it doesn't change the fact that THEY STILL NEED TO GO THROUGH THE APPROVAL PROCESS.

[pianoknight]

Looks like Arkansas School for the Deaf is trying to join the Big East.

http://www.arschoolforthedeaf.org/education/components/sectionlist/default.php?sectiondetailid=310

They have, BY FAR, the best mascot in all sports.

[Mings]

Does their drummer only have one arm?