Division 1 College Conference Realignment

[Cujo]

3 minutes ago, McCall said:

52 minutes ago, 4_tattoos said:

If San Diego State win's the national championship, is a Pac-12 invite guaranteed at that point?

 

Not necessarily. Although I think they'll get one anyway. Just not BECAUSE the won  a National title.

 

They're getting in regardless of next weekend. 

 

1) The Aztecs consistently good.

 

2) The Pac-12 will be in dire need of a SoCal school.

[jlog3000]

9 minutes ago, Cujo said:

 

They're getting in regardless of next weekend. 

 

1) The Aztecs consistently good.

 

2) The Pac-12 will be in dire need of a SoCal school.

 

Unfortunately, there aren't any other SoCal schools within D-I (let alone within the FBS). The other viable option for the Pac-12 to get is Fresno State, although that school is in CenCel (Central California), like close to Stanford and UCal.

[Cujo]

46 minutes ago, jlog3000 said:

Unfortunately, there aren't any other SoCal schools within D-I (let alone within the FBS). The other viable option for the Pac-12 to get is Fresno State

 

I like UNLV's chances above Fresno State. Both have viable football and hoops programs. But having a team in Vegas >>> having a team in Fresno.

[FiddySicks]

9 minutes ago, Cujo said:

 

I like UNLV's chances above Fresno State. Both have viable football and hoops programs. But having a team in Vegas >>> having a team in Fresno.

 Absolutely not. Fresno may be a Central Valley cow town, but Fresno State is head and shoulders a better/more prestigious school than UNLV. UNLV has SO many issues that’ll prevent it from ever having the heft to actually be worth anything, too. It’s still for all intents and purposes a commuter school. 
 

Neither school should get any consideration though so the point is mostly moot. SDSU isn’t really a stellar pick, but it has potential. It’s basically same level as Arizona State. Long term I almost think a better idea would be to try and develop a stronger athletics program at one of the UC schools, but that’s probably not a realistic ask. 

[Cujo]

Just now, FiddySicks said:

Fresno State is head and shoulders a better/more prestigious school than UNLV

 

Whatttt?

 

Fresno State hasn't accomplished anything close to this.

 

[FiddySicks]

I think one of the things that’s being overlooked in all of this is the standards for academics a conference like the PAC 12 requires. Even with them losing UCLA and USC, you’re probably not going to see schools like Cal and Stanford just completely relent on that part, nor should they. All of these schools we’re talking about have a higher academic and overall prestige record than UNLV, which is basically still a glorified community community college. Yes, UNLV has a good basketball history, but their apex was almost four decades ago.

[Cujo]

2 minutes ago, FiddySicks said:

standards for academics a conference like the PAC 12 requires

 

I have to bite my tongue on this one. And you know exactly why!

[FiddySicks]

I’m not saying it isn’t asinine for an athletic conference to do that, but it’s also true. There are about a hundred schools in the west that would be better choices for the PAC 12 than UNLV. You might as well put New Mexico State in the PAC 12 at that point while you’re at it. 

[Cujo]

4 minutes ago, FiddySicks said:

I’m not saying it isn’t asinine for an athletic conference to do that, but it’s also true. There are about a hundred schools in the west that would be better choices for the PAC 12 than UNLV. You might as well put New Mexico State in the PAC 12 at that point while you’re at it. 

 

It's not like the Pac-12 has a choice but to add "lesser" schools like Fresno and Boise State. Because Colorado is likely gone soon, the UNM Lobos are likely on their radar too.

[FiddySicks]

I honestly think the damage that’s going to be done to the PAC 12 from losing the So Cal schools is overblown. It’s going to hurt for awhile, no doubt, but I also think they could grab a few schools that can build themselves up to be worthy and healthy members of the conference. SDSU gives them a shot, maybe a school like Boise or SMU can get bigger (I’m less convinced Boise could do this, but SMU has more flexibility and I’m assuming financial abilities), hell I could even see a newer school we’re not even considering get to that point. I also think that after enough time passes, both UCLA and USC will be back in the PAC 12, or whatever it’s called by then, fwiw. 
 

I just can’t see UNLV, of all schools, ever being there. Unless the college model completely switches and the only thing these conferences are taking into consideration is market size (which Vegas is still not that strong and already super crowded), there’s just too many factors that are going to prevent that from being a realistic possibility. There are just too many other better options out there than UNLV. 

[Cujo]

48 minutes ago, FiddySicks said:

I honestly think the damage that’s going to be done to the PAC 12 from losing the So Cal schools is overblown.

 

They can never replace losing USC and UCLA. That's a huge blow to the conference and is damaging to their overall "power" status. If they can't convince Colorado to stay locked in, it could cause a domino effect should the Big Ten and SEC be interested Oregon, Washington and the Arizona teams.

[heavybass]

Is Colorado going to the Big 12 or the Big 10?

[McCall]

14 minutes ago, heavybass said:

Is Colorado going to the Big 12 or the Big 10?

They're not going anywhere at the moment. But speculation has them going back to the Big 12 with Utah and the Arizona schools. Not saying they would turn down the Big Ten if invited, just that that's not where they're perceived to go.

 

If Oregon-Washington leave (most likely Big Ten, Big 12 at the very least) and the 4-Corner schools follow suit, the Pac-12, even if the name remains with whatever number, will cease to be the Power 5 conference that it is and has been. By that time, both Fresno State and UNLV would likely be in the conference, but it'll be a Big East/AAC situation. Basically just the better Mountain West schools. Kinda like how the AAC is basically just the better Conference USA schools "moved up" what was the Big East to try and fill the void left by its top schools bailing for Power conferences.

[GhostOfNormMacdonald]

I go to ASU. We're way better at academics now than we used to be thanks to our president, but our standards aren't that high. Our charter literally says we measure ourselves by who we include and not who we exclude. As a future educator, I love that about us, but I've accepted that in the future I'm going to have to lean on my extracurriculars more than if I had just stayed home and gone to Minnesota when I apply to law school. I honestly think this would be a good opportunity to raise the status of smaller schools and give them a boost to attract the money and prestige that is needed to improve academics, because honestly, I can't justify excluding other schools from our conference when I run into the most brain dead trust fund frat boys imaginable on a daily basis.

[Gary]

1 hour ago, GhostOfNormMacdonald said:

I go to ASU. We're way better at academics now than we used to be thanks to our president, but our standards aren't that high. Our charter literally says we measure ourselves by who we include and not who we exclude. As a future educator, I love that about us, but I've accepted that in the future I'm going to have to lean on my extracurriculars more than if I had just stayed home and gone to Minnesota when I apply to law school. I honestly think this would be a good opportunity to raise the status of smaller schools and give them a boost to attract the money and prestige that is needed to improve academics, because honestly, I can't justify excluding other schools from our conference when I run into the most brain dead trust fund frat boys imaginable on a daily basis.

ASU is a great teachers school and Journalism school, but when I went there it was just that. If you wanted to be a doctor or lawyer, this wasn't the place for you, that was when you went to UofA. This was the place you went to get drunk and get laid while getting a degree. I know 20 years later, its become a better ce to go to. But when I went there it was different

[WestCoastBias]

17 hours ago, Cujo said:

 

I like UNLV's chances above Fresno State. Both have viable football and hoops programs. But having a team in Vegas >>> having a team in Fresno.

 

UNLV has a viable football program? Since when?

[WestCoastBias]

17 hours ago, Cujo said:

 

Whatttt?

 

Fresno State hasn't accomplished anything close to this.

 

 

But what have they accomplished since? UNLV has been riding off that championship for the past 30 years and now they're hoping playing in the Raiders stadium with no fans will get them into the Pac-12.

 

[WestCoastBias]

17 hours ago, FiddySicks said:

 Absolutely not. Fresno may be a Central Valley cow town, but Fresno State is head and shoulders a better/more prestigious school than UNLV. UNLV has SO many issues that’ll prevent it from ever having the heft to actually be worth anything, too. It’s still for all intents and purposes a commuter school. 
 

Neither school should get any consideration though so the point is mostly moot. SDSU isn’t really a stellar pick, but it has potential. It’s basically same level as Arizona State. Long term I almost think a better idea would be to try and develop a stronger athletics program at one of the UC schools, but that’s probably not a realistic ask. 

 

Totally agree, people are really sleeping on what Fresno State brings to the table. The San Joaquin Valley is home to over 4 million people compared to the 2.5 million in the Vegas metro area. Sure it's Fresno and not glamorous Las Vegas but Fresno State actually has a legit fanbase that goes to games (one of the top G5's in attendance this past year) and travels well (see anytime they play UCLA, SDSU, etc.), unlike UNLV. The football success already speaks for itself and UNLV can't come close to matching that.  

 

SDSU will be an all around fantastic add to the Pac, really excited for when that happens.

[FiddySicks]

5 hours ago, GhostOfNormMacdonald said:

I go to ASU. We're way better at academics now than we used to be thanks to our president, but our standards aren't that high. Our charter literally says we measure ourselves by who we include and not who we exclude. As a future educator, I love that about us, but I've accepted that in the future I'm going to have to lean on my extracurriculars more than if I had just stayed home and gone to Minnesota when I apply to law school. I honestly think this would be a good opportunity to raise the status of smaller schools and give them a boost to attract the money and prestige that is needed to improve academics, because honestly, I can't justify excluding other schools from our conference when I run into the most brain dead trust fund frat boys imaginable on a daily basis.

I’m also an Arizona State alum, and two things when it comes to this: 

 

ASU has made a concerted effort to raise their academic standards and has done a fantastic job at doing so. They brought in Michael Crow from (I think) BYU, and he has raised their academic standards to be more in line with the other PAC 12 schools (he also dismantled the old frat row, which was a big first step in changing ASU’s outward appearance as just a “party school” That pissed a lot of people off, but ultimately it was the right move). 
 

But the other thing is, for as high as the acceptance rate is at ASU in regards to new students, they also have an extremely high washout rate. It’s the type of school that will say sure! You can come here! But if you’re not prepared to do the work, they’re just going to take your money and boot you to the curb. I assume most major universities are like this, but it still seemed to be an unpleasant reality that caught a TON of students off guard. It’s definitely not the cakewalk “get a degree for having a pulse” mentality it sounds like it used to be. I went in prepared to do the work (I was a few years older when I went), and it still kicked my ass. If I was 18, I’m not so sure I would’ve been as lucky. It’s sort of predatory in that sense, but there’s a method to that. 
 

Even with the “Brain dead frat boys”, which there were a metric ton while I went there, they usually either buckled down, or we’re gone within two semesters. 
 

Like I said, I think that long term the PAC 12’s best option is to try and raise an already prestigious school’s athletic program, rather than trying to take a school with a moderately strong athletic program and try to raise their academic programs. The latter is a MUCH larger task, and ultimately, colleges are about the academics.
 

I don’t expect them to go this route, but I would love to see them include a school similar to UC Davis, which already has an EXCELLENT academic reputation (probably the best Ag school in the world, an extremely renowned medical school, a very strong law school, and is regarded as a top ten, probably even top five public university in the country), and build up their athletic reputation rather than vice versa. 
 

There are SO MANY world renowned colleges and universities in California and the west coast as a whole. It would be a real shame to see the PAC 12 drop their standards (which they’ve basically demanded schools like ASU raise to continue in the conference) so low that they would include a rinky dink little joke of a college like UNLV. It just doesn’t make sense. It’s one of the very last options they should consider. 

[Cujo]

54 minutes ago, WestCoastBias said:

 

But what have they accomplished since? UNLV has been riding off that championship for the past 30 years and now they're hoping playing in the Raiders stadium with no fans will get them into the Pac-12.

 

It's still more than anything Fresno has ever accomplished. Aside from pumping out the Carr brothers, i have a hard time coming up with anything Fresno State has ever done.

 

And again, Vega$ >>> Fresneck. Fans will travel to Vegas. Nobody's going to Fresno to watch their school then party the rest of the weekend