Division 1 College Conference Realignment

[McCall]

Here's how I can see it happening, eventually, in the end:

1. Four Corner Schools (Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Utah) to the Big 12

2. Oregon, Washington, Stanford to the Big Ten

3. Oregon State, Washington State to the Mountain West. OR...

4. They stay in the Pac-12 (with California, who I could see ending up in the Big 12) and add San Diego State, Fresno State, UNLV, Nevada and maybe Boise State (and potentially others to reach 10-12 teams)  to form a new, non-P5 conference of the P5-Pac-12 leftovers and top schools from the Mountain West (which adds North Dakota State and South Dakota State.) If any of these schools become appealing for P5 expansion, they'd eventually end up in the Big 12.

[jlog3000]

25 minutes ago, McCall said:

Here's how I can see it happening, eventually, in the end:

1. Four Corner Schools (Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Utah) to the Big 12

2. Oregon, Washington, Stanford to the Big Ten

3. Oregon State, Washington State to the Mountain West. OR...

4. They stay in the Pac-12 (with California, who I could see ending up in the Big 12) and add San Diego State, Fresno State, UNLV, Nevada and maybe Boise State (and potentially others to reach 10-12 teams)  to form a new, non-P5 conference of the P5-Pac-12 leftovers and top schools from the Mountain West (which adds North Dakota State and South Dakota State.) If any of these schools become appealing for P5 expansion, they'd eventually end up in the Big 12.

 

Those are good predictions. And a bit off-topic, although I know it's speculation at this moment, but do you see Gonzaga join the Big XII as an all-sports member (except football)? Also would other Dakota schools (North Dakota and South Dakota) or both Montana schools to follow suit to join alongside North Dakota State and South Dakota State?

[WestCoastBias]

4 hours ago, McCall said:

Here's how I can see it happening, eventually, in the end:

1. Four Corner Schools (Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Utah) to the Big 12

2. Oregon, Washington, Stanford to the Big Ten

3. Oregon State, Washington State to the Mountain West. OR...

4. They stay in the Pac-12 (with California, who I could see ending up in the Big 12) and add San Diego State, Fresno State, UNLV, Nevada and maybe Boise State (and potentially others to reach 10-12 teams)  to form a new, non-P5 conference of the P5-Pac-12 leftovers and top schools from the Mountain West (which adds North Dakota State and South Dakota State.) If any of these schools become appealing for P5 expansion, they'd eventually end up in the Big 12.

I’d like to see UC Davis make the jump up to FBS if the Mountain West looks to the FCS to expand. They’d be a candidate for the Pac-12 too in the distant future, granted if they had some success and if the Pac-12 survives that long.

[McCall]

10 hours ago, jlog3000 said:

 

Those are good predictions. And a bit off-topic, although I know it's speculation at this moment, but do you see Gonzaga join the Big XII as an all-sports member (except football)? Also would other Dakota schools (North Dakota and South Dakota) or both Montana schools to follow suit to join alongside North Dakota State and South Dakota State?

Gonzaga’s only being looked at for basketball.

[jlog3000]

4 minutes ago, McCall said:

Gonzaga’s only being looked at for basketball.

 

But for basketball only? Not counting its other Olympic sports?

[McCall]

48 minutes ago, jlog3000 said:

 

But for basketball only? Not counting its other Olympic sports?

Yes. They’re not big enough any other sport to leave the more regional WCC.

[jlog3000]

20 minutes ago, McCall said:

Yes. They’re not big enough any other sport to leave the more regional WCC.

 

Then basically should they selfishly and entitlely get their way, it would mean that Gonzaga will be the first school to be an associate or affiliate member for only that sport. Because in a normal, common sensical world, it's unheard of for an institution to have basketball only on one conference while remaining as a "full non-football member" on its primary home conference for other sports. Bottom line.

 

And to my understanding, for a member institution to join an athletic conference as its primary home, it must have both men's and women's basketball as its main priority (plus football if that conference also sponsors it), along with a few less revenue Olympic sports for each gender.

Edited March 5, 2023 by jlog3000
typo fix

[McCall]

1 hour ago, jlog3000 said:

 

Then basically should they selfishly and entitlely get their way, it would mean that Gonzaga will be the first school to be an associate or affiliate member for only that sport. Because in a normal, common sensical world, it's unheard of for an institution to have basketball only on one conference while remaining as a "full non-football member" on its primary home conference for other sports. Bottom line.

 

And to my understanding, for a member institution to join an athletic conference as its primary home, it must have both men's and women's basketball as its main priority (plus football if that conference also sponsors it), along with a few less revenue Olympic sports for each gender.

So what? They don't have football, so basketball is their primary sport (and they're quite big in basketball). They're a mid-major school with a major basketball program. Not surprising for them to be seen as basketball-only members of a major conference. There's no rule saying you can only do that with football.

[GDAWG]

1 hour ago, McCall said:

So what? They don't have football, so basketball is their primary sport (and they're quite big in basketball). They're a mid-major school with a major basketball program. Not surprising for them to be seen as basketball-only members of a major conference. There's no rule saying you can only do that with football.

 

Gonzaga in the same conference as Houston, Baylor, Kansas State, TCU and Kansas......that would be a stacked conference in basketball. 

[sportsfan7]

16 hours ago, jlog3000 said:

 

And to my understanding, for a member institution to join an athletic conference as its primary home, it must have both men's and women's basketball as its main priority (plus football if that conference also sponsors it), along with a few less revenue Olympic sports for each gender.

This is basically right with a few exceptions. VMI and The Citadel don't sponsor women's basketball (although they do sponsor other women's sports), Morehead State and Presbyterian play football in the non-scholarship Pioneer despite the OVC and Big South (respectively) sponsoring football, and despite the Patriot League sponsoring football Army plays as an FBS independent and Navy in the American. But yes, if a school plays basketball in a conference then it traditionally hosts as many of its teams there as it can.

[jlog3000]

18 minutes ago, sportsfan7 said:

This is basically right with a few exceptions. VMI and The Citadel don't sponsor women's basketball (although they do sponsor other women's sports), Morehead State and Presbyterian play football in the non-scholarship Pioneer despite the OVC and Big South (respectively) sponsoring football, and despite the Patriot League sponsoring football Army plays as an FBS independent and Navy in the American. But yes, if a school plays basketball in a conference then it traditionally hosts as many of its teams there as it can.

 

True, but don't you guys think that it's irrelevant to have a school to compete in basketball (either men's alone or women's alone or both alike) for one conference as an affiliate, while having the rest of the other sports in its primary home conference?

 

It's like almost with the case of Notre Dame's 2nd stint in the MCC (now the Horizon League) as a full member plus women's basketball, while it's men's basketball team was a D-I Independent (proverbially speaking that being on another conference).

[McCall]

1 hour ago, jlog3000 said:

 

True, but don't you guys think that it's irrelevant to have a school to compete in basketball (either men's alone or women's alone or both alike) for one conference as an affiliate, while having the rest of the other sports in its primary home conference?

 

It's like almost with the case of Notre Dame's 2nd stint in the MCC (now the Horizon League) as a full member plus women's basketball, while it's men's basketball team was a D-I Independent (proverbially speaking that being on another conference).

How is that different than a school competing only in football in one conference while keeping their other sports in another?

[leopard88]

18 hours ago, McCall said:

How is that different than a school competing only in football in one conference while keeping their other sports in another?

 

. . . like Georgetown and Fordham being associate members in the Patriot League in football only.

[McCall]

33 minutes ago, leopard88 said:

 

. . . like Georgetown and Fordham being associate members in the Patriot League in football only.

I know. It's like he thinks it can't happen because it's basketball instead of football.

[WestCoastBias]

41 minutes ago, McCall said:

I know. It's like he thinks it can't happen because it's basketball instead of football.

 

I'm with @jlog3000 here. I was always of the belief that basketball was the sport that determined the conference where the rest of your sports played and that football was able to do it's own thing basically. Unless your basketball conference didn't sponsor one of your sports then all your sports played there. That could be more like a hand shake agreement than an actual rule though idk.

 

Whatever the case, Gonzaga would be added for all sports to the Big 12. The WCC definitely wouldn't let their biggest money maker leave while the rest of Gonzaga's sports stayed with them. From The Athletic: "Indications are that Gonzaga would want any move to be an all-sports deal, not just for basketball."

 

[jlog3000]

5 hours ago, WestCoastBias said:

 

I'm with @jlog3000 here. I was always of the belief that basketball was the sport that determined the conference where the rest of your sports played and that football was able to do it's own thing basically. Unless your basketball conference didn't sponsor one of your sports then all your sports played there. That could be more like a hand shake agreement than an actual rule though idk.

 

Whatever the case, Gonzaga would be added for all sports to the Big 12. The WCC definitely wouldn't let their biggest money maker leave while the rest of Gonzaga's sports stayed with them. From The Athletic: "Indications are that Gonzaga would want any move to be an all-sports deal, not just for basketball."

 

 

At least someone got my point to an extent. I thank you @WestCoastBias for that.

 

Plus with the Notre Dame example on one of my prior posts, it was due to the reference of basketball, but in their 2nd stint at the MCC/Horizon (before moving almost all of its sports to the Big East in the 1995-96 school year), almost every sport the program sponsored was part of that except for men's basketball and football. The only thing I wanted to clarify was that football was still independent at that time (like how they are today), hence I didn't include it.

 

The context in question was about basketball, which is a main priority for revenue and a key factor as a minimum requirement, with football being a close second (unless that school doesn't sponsor that sport). Also at least it's not like the NAIA and lower organizations, where institutions are full members whose sports that are possible for the school to sponsor in an athletic conference have neither football or basketball or both, or even.

 

Heck, a rare few exceptions exist in the NCAA, with those that have no basketball but have other Olympic sports, for instance: Massachusetts Maritime (also sponsors football); or a women's-only college like Simmons (Mass.) who has no basketball (whose final season was in the 2018-19 season).

[Dilbert]

Heres the thing. Not all conferences sponsor the other sports. All schools have basketball. Some conferences like the Atlantic 10 dont sponsor football, however many of their members do, so they play as an affiliate member mostly in the CAA.  The MAC is dropping soccer for 2023. Only four schools (Akron, Bowling Green, Northern Illinois and Western Michigan) sponsor soccer. BGSU, NIU, and WMU will join the Missouri Valley Conference for soccer only, and Akron is joining the Big East for soccer. Then you got hockey, a whole other beast.  NCAA division II doesnt sponsor hockey, so the  D2 schools that have hockey play in division I. The only division I conference that sponsors hockey is the Big Ten, who have Notre Dame as an affiliate. The rest all play in conferences that only sponsor hockey. Then you got the other sports beach volleyball, which lets face it, Ohio State in the Big Ten and Montana in the Big Sky arent exactly known for their beach volleyball.

 

Point here is while when it comes to the conferences, we normally only tend to look at the basketball and football since those are the most popular sports.  People forget about the other sports. It wouldnt make sense for a 12 team MAC for football and basketball to host a 4 school conference for soccer. Would it make sense to put all the non football schools play in only conferences that dont sponsor football? Maybe but then you have to think about the other sports too.

[Geoff]

On 3/2/2023 at 8:07 PM, Burmy said:

With BOTH football and basketball championships in Vegas now, it's inevitable that the Pac-12 will at least try to add 'em.

Following that logic:

 

UAB to the SEC (baseball at Hoover). Georgia Tech and Georgia State are off to the SEC. USF is off to the SEC because the basketball tourney has been in Tampa.

Charlotte to the ACC and the Big South.

UNC Greensboro is headed to the ACC. 

West Florida to the Fun Belt. 

UNLV is going to be in the PAC-XX as well as the WCC, WAC, and the Mountain West. And maybe even the Big West if you wanna lump Henderson in with Vegas.

TCU to the American.

UNC Asheville to the SoCon.

Evansville is leaving the MVC for the OVC.

Boise State to the Big Sky.

SMU is headed back to CUSA.

 

This all checks out.

[heavybass]

Mountain West to go after the Bison and the Jackrabbits?

[jlog3000]

1 minute ago, heavybass said:

Mountain West to go after the Bison and the Jackrabbits?

 

That might be possible. And after that, the next to be in line would be either the USD Coyotes & the UND Fighting Hawks; or the Montana Grizzlies & the Montana St. Bobcats?