What a rip-off...

[BBTV]

Don't mind it at all.

Then you're a dummy and shouldn't be posting on a board that is frequented by designers who's work could someday be stolen by your school. Well, technically, it's whoever they sell their work to's logo that's getting stolen, but the point stands.

That brings up a good question - do the designers have any obligation to their clients when they see work that they've sold stolen? If I designed the Eagles' logo, I guess it's not mine anymore, so I can't personally do anything, but I'd feel a responsibility to let the team know.

[Matito]

My high school, Northside Christian, used SMU's mustang logo.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v373/245/72/1625835330/n1625835330_29417_7374.jpg

My senior year of high school (2007-08), the athletic department said that they wanted to find a new logo primarily for the baseball caps, but it would probably be used in a few other sports. They asked all of us to enter our own designs and they would pick the best to use. They specifically said they did not want to use an existing logo, such as the North Carolina Tar Heels "NC" monogram. I had to go back to pick up a copy of my high school transcript two weeks ago. I drove past the baseball field on campus, and what did I see on the backstop?

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/object2/474/106/n205977646135_6835.jpg

On a side note, I was searching for a picture of the helmet, and found one on Google Images that had this thumbnail:

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ZO6BdMSV0o3ygM:http://www.floridahelmetproject.com/images/stories/current/northsidechristianhelmet.gif

but when I clicked on it, this is what came up. Apparently they're going BFBS.

http://i39.tinypic.com/fbwdqr.jpg

[BBTV]

Why is the C broken at the top?

[udubs03]

The right leg of the "N" and the broken part of the "C" forms a cross since it's Northside Christian, I presume.

[Matito]

The right leg of the "N" and the broken part of the "C" forms a cross since it's Northside Christian, I presume.

That's my best guess. If I end up having to go back to the office for something, I might ask.

[friarcanuck]

I can understand a designer being pissed if they see their logo or a part of a logo on a professional team. When I say professional, I mean the team's sole purpose is to make money.

Now on the other side, I don't see how any professional team could get upset with a kids team using their logos. It's free advertising.

I agree it is IP theft, but I'd like to see you be in the shoes of the guy who gets to tell 6 year old Billy who plays minor hockey in Toronto he can't be a Maple Leaf.

[rams80]

I can understand a designer being pissed if they see their logo or a part of a logo on a professional team. When I say professional, I mean the team's sole purpose is to make money.

Now on the other side, I don't see how any professional team could get upset with a kids team using their logos. It's free advertising.

I agree it is IP theft, but I'd like to see you be in the shoes of the guy who gets to tell 6 year old Billy who plays minor hockey in Toronto he can't be a Maple Leaf.

Isn't Billy enthusiastic because that means he may one day win a championship?

[jtthirtyfour]

i'd say probably at least a third of the schools out in ca use a recolored version of an NCAA or professional team logo

[Burmy]

Yes. If your school has a Wisconsin 'W' anywhere on its campus, it's already firmly in the crosshairs of UW's proverbial M-16.

Not from what I hear...the alphabet is public domain (and all its fonts are too)...the courts have ruled that many times before (nobody has the guts to challenge UW over this, so that's why their monopoly remains)

[BBTV]

Yes. If your school has a Wisconsin 'W' anywhere on its campus, it's already firmly in the crosshairs of UW's proverbial M-16.

Not from what I hear...the alphabet is public domain (and all its fonts are too)...the courts have ruled that many times before (nobody has the guts to challenge UW over this, so that's why their monopoly remains)

LOL, what you "hear"? How are the Phillies legally allowed to TM their P?

Probably a better question, how is anyone allowed to sell a font? Shouldn't all typefaces be free to the public and not require licenses? I'm no lawyer, and don't know what the law says, but I'd bet everything I have that once you start customizing and shaping letters, they become "pictures" or "designs" and not "letters", and are therefore TMable.

[pcgd]

Technically when buying a font you are paying for the code that makes it typeable not the alphabet. You can't trademark the alphabet or the way you can construct the alphabet in the United States. Other countries allow you to copyright/trademark that, but not in the US. The only thing that is trademark eligible is the font FILE itself. This is why you see so many copycat fonts...not much anyone can do about it in the US.

Where the Phillies and Wisconsin are different is those are logos and not type. Even though they are a letter, they are trademarked logos.

I can't explain why that is, it just is...it doesn't make much sense to me either.

As for the High Schools using other logos, I think you'd all be surprised how many schools actually have agreements with the colleges and pro teams that do allow use. I do some work for a company that prints shirts for high schools and I'll ask them "Do you know this is a rip of of _______'s logo". MOst of the time they say yes and that the school has rights to use that logo. It really surprised me. I know Warren Central here in Indianapolis flattened the bottom of the W and Wisconsin Ok'd it.

[BBTV]

Where the Phillies and Wisconsin are different is those are logos and not type. Even though they are a letter, they are trademarked logos.

I can't explain why that is, it just is...it doesn't make much sense to me either.

So that sounds kinda like I was suggesting how after a certain point they become pictures or designs and not letters. I guess the rational is that the W isn't a letter, it's just a design that happens to be shaped like a letter. That does raise the question of how that distinction is made. Could the Phillies TM a logo that is shaped like every letter, and therefore have their own proprietary typeface? I'd actually love to know how the laws read. Interesting stuff.

[Dexter Morgan]

Don't mind it at all.

Then you're a dummy and shouldn't be posting on a board that is frequented by designers who's work could someday be stolen by your school. Well, technically, it's whoever they sell their work to's logo that's getting stolen, but the point stands.

That brings up a good question - do the designers have any obligation to their clients when they see work that they've sold stolen? If I designed the Eagles' logo, I guess it's not mine anymore, so I can't personally do anything, but I'd feel a responsibility to let the team know.

Is this post serious? If so... HAHAHAHAH SHUT UP

[Mingjai]

Where the Phillies and Wisconsin are different is those are logos and not type. Even though they are a letter, they are trademarked logos.

I can't explain why that is, it just is...it doesn't make much sense to me either.

So that sounds kinda like I was suggesting how after a certain point they become pictures or designs and not letters. I guess the rational is that the W isn't a letter, it's just a design that happens to be shaped like a letter. That does raise the question of how that distinction is made. Could the Phillies TM a logo that is shaped like every letter, and therefore have their own proprietary typeface? I'd actually love to know how the laws read. Interesting stuff.

As far a trademarking letters go, a trademark is a "word, name, symbol, or device, or any combination thereof used ... to identify or distinguish his or her goods...." To be protected under the law, a trademark must be used in commerce, so its not enough to have a nice design. So a font itself is not a trademark, but a letter or set of letters in specific font used to identify goods (or services) is a trademark (servicemark). I guess you could have an organization that uses the entire alphabet in a specific font as a trademark, but they would only be able to protect their specific arrangement of it, e.g. abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz.

For example, the "Motion W" logo is symbol used by the University of Wisconsin to identify its goods (merchandise) and services (education and sports entertainment)--therefore the University of Wisconsin can prevent other organizations from using this logo.

Many trademarks are also copyrights, so the owners of the copyright have a distinct bundle of rights in addition to their trademark rights that they can use to protect their mark.

And from what I understand a vector font is copyrightable in the United States while a bitmap font is not, so there is some protection for designers of fonts.

[IceCap]

Don't mind it at all.

Then you're a dummy and shouldn't be posting on a board that is frequented by designers who's work could someday be stolen by your school. Well, technically, it's whoever they sell their work to's logo that's getting stolen, but the point stands.

That brings up a good question - do the designers have any obligation to their clients when they see work that they've sold stolen? If I designed the Eagles' logo, I guess it's not mine anymore, so I can't personally do anything, but I'd feel a responsibility to let the team know.

Is this post serious? If so... HAHAHAHAH SHUT UP

He's right.

[Lights Out]

Is this post serious? If so... HAHAHAHAH SHUT UP

Is your post serious? If so... you just told a tenured member of the forums (who's right, by the way) to "shut up," and you're condoning blatant theft of intellectual property.

[Dexter Morgan]

Is this post serious? If so... HAHAHAHAH SHUT UP

Is your post serious? If so... you just told a tenured member of the forums (who's right, by the way) to "shut up," and you're condoning blatant theft of intellectual property.

Tenured member... lol, like I give a crap about that. This is a message board, not a frat house. The guy disrespected because I don't mind schools using logos from pro or college sport teams. Disagreeing with that is fine, but no need for name calling.

[oldschoolvikings]

Is this post serious? If so... HAHAHAHAH SHUT UP

Is your post serious? If so... you just told a tenured member of the forums (who's right, by the way) to "shut up," and you're condoning blatant theft of intellectual property.

Tenured member... lol, like I give a crap about that. This is a message board, not a frat house. The guy disrespected because I don't mind schools using logos from pro or college sport teams. Disagreeing with that is fine, but no need for name calling.

Hmm... I'm guessing ol' Dex is 15... maybe 16. Anybody else got a guess?

[crashcarson15]

Technically when buying a font you are paying for the code that makes it typeable not the alphabet. You can't trademark the alphabet or the way you can construct the alphabet in the United States. Other countries allow you to copyright/trademark that, but not in the US. The only thing that is trademark eligible is the font FILE itself. This is why you see so many copycat fonts...not much anyone can do about it in the US.

Where the Phillies and Wisconsin are different is those are logos and not type. Even though they are a letter, they are trademarked logos.

I can't explain why that is, it just is...it doesn't make much sense to me either.

As for the High Schools using other logos, I think you'd all be surprised how many schools actually have agreements with the colleges and pro teams that do allow use. I do some work for a company that prints shirts for high schools and I'll ask them "Do you know this is a rip of of _______'s logo". MOst of the time they say yes and that the school has rights to use that logo. It really surprised me. I know Warren Central here in Indianapolis flattened the bottom of the W and Wisconsin Ok'd it.

Was actually going to post about Warren Central's use of the motion W and that makes a lot of sense. That school is ridiculous though with how much talent they have in football.