2010 LeBron James Sweepstakes

[Gothamite]

How very Ayn Randian.

[TheOldRoman]

Is Kobe forcing his way to LA even legitimately what happened?

Kobe does have a history of forcing himself.

How the hell do the Lakers supposedly have the ability to sign one or even two max guys with Kobe on the team? I thought when his recent deal was signed it would "destroy the Lakers" and they'd have to pay 11 other guys the veteran minimum?

[Lights Out]

Kobe refused to play for over 90% of the league back in '96.

More specifically, he strung the Nets along, then threatened to go play in Italy if they drafted him at the last minute. He also refused to work out for Sacramento (as mentioned a couple posts up) or Indiana. And we all know how he forced his way out of Charlotte. Kobe is simply trying to revise history even though the truth of what he pulled is all archived online, as well as trying to get attention at a time when Duncan is reigning as champion and LeBron and Melo are dominating the headlines.

Somehow that's considered less deserving of hate than LeBron wasting 7 years in Cleveland and switching teams in free agency, though.

[The_Admiral]

Yeah, and people forgive Michael Jordan being a compulsive gambler and generally malevolent human being. That's because he's better than LeBron. Kobe is better than LeBron, too.

[Lights Out]

But that doesn't change things from the employee / player's perspective. Agreed it's totally different, but the fundamental desire to work where you want doesn't change. I'm not saying that the draft is illegal or anything, just that I tend to look at things from the worker's perspective and don't begrudge them for exercising their leverage just like you or I would if we had any. I also feel the same way about contract holdouts and stuff like that.

Sure it sucks from a fan perspective - I get that. As someone who hated JD Drew and Scott Boras for a while, I get that.

But by no means does it make anyone a bitch to do what they feel is best for themselves and their career.

On the other hand, I get why the league can't have all it's star players in only a few markets, so I don't blame them for challenging the players and at least trying to restrict. I just usually side with labor on these matters, unless the labor ends up killing the league and in turn costs all the other labor their jobs.

IMO, declaring for the draft means agreeing to play by its rules, which includes deferring your right to choose your team until free agency. To circumvent that and demand to be drafted by a certain team might not make you a "bitch," but it is acting in bad faith, which is worthy of criticism.

[Lights Out]

Kobe is better than LeBron, too.

He's not, though. Also, Kobe, like Jordan, was just lucky to largely avoid today's social media and 24-hour news cycle, so his behavior could more easily be swept under the rug.

[OnWis97]

Kobe is better than LeBron, too.

He's not, though. Also, Kobe, like Jordan, was just lucky to largely avoid today's social media and 24-hour news cycle, so his behavior could more easily be swept under the rug.

Kobe did what he had to do for himself. Fine.

But the hate for LeBron leaving his one-man operation in Cleveland while there is love for Kobe saying "I'll only play in a big market" drives me nuts. Guess Kobe was smarter; get into a big market right away before you have an insignificant team to leave.

Since we seem to primarily judge greatness by titles, then circumstance is key. Seven years in Cleveland where no free agent wanted to go...Kobe had Shaq join him in LA. Kobe's five titles vs. LBJ's two is far too often used as an apples-to-apples comparison. It's not. Does Hakeem have two titles to Stockton/Malone's zero because he's better? Or is it because his team peaked during MJ's first retirement (as opposed to Utah peaking while the Bulls were unbeatable)?

I won't pretend to truly know whether Kobe is better than LaBron, but titles is not really a proper measure. Maybe had LaBron forced a draft day trade, he'd already have his six rings (and he'd be less hated spurning Cleveland from Day 1 than he was after 7 years)...would he be better than Kobe then? Circumstances. Robert Horry was a good role player, but not an all-time great.

[The_Admiral]

Also, Kobe, like Jordan, was just lucky to largely avoid today's social media and 24-hour news cycle, so his behavior could more easily be swept under the rug.

Yes, alleged rapist Kobe Bryant lived a life of secrecy.

[TheOldRoman]

Kobe is better than LeBron, too.

He's not, though. Also, Kobe, like Jordan, was just lucky to largely avoid today's social media and 24-hour news cycle, so his behavior could more easily be swept under the rug.

It has nothing to do with the news cycle. If LeBron left Cleveland unceremoniously, like pretty much every free agent ever, they still would have burned his jerseys in Ohio, and lots of people would say he sold out or whatever, but he wouldn't have gotten the widespread scorn he did. It was ALL about "The Decision". The way he handled free agency was awful, and holding a :censored:ing primetime special to announce your destination is going to piss a bunch of people off. He acted like he didn't care about the hate, then he tried being the victim and saying the hate was due to racism, but he eventually realized he was wrong and admitted he acted poorly. That's why he's not doing the same thing this time around.

Announcing the decision in that manner was much, much worse than privately telling teams you won't play for them, independent from how much the new cycle has expanded. And outside if being an all-round dick and sleeping around (which seemingly all athletes do), Jordan never really did anything which would be magnified in today's age. And he never tapped out like LeBron did in assembling the Super Friends. There would be a bunch of memes about Jordan being a selfish player, but that's about the only difference. Him punching Steve Kerr today would be played off just as any number of NFL training camp scuffles, "boys will be boys, heat of the moment, hatchet's buried."

[The_Admiral]

Hey, you know whom we don't talk nearly enough about when it comes to just appallingly poor sportsmanship? Serena Williams. Good God. Thirteen-some years now of everything being someone else's fault and nothing being fair. If LeBron had been as bad as she's been, he'd have gotten his ass kicked for it.

[BBTV]

But that doesn't change things from the employee / player's perspective. Agreed it's totally different, but the fundamental desire to work where you want doesn't change. I'm not saying that the draft is illegal or anything, just that I tend to look at things from the worker's perspective and don't begrudge them for exercising their leverage just like you or I would if we had any. I also feel the same way about contract holdouts and stuff like that.

Sure it sucks from a fan perspective - I get that. As someone who hated JD Drew and Scott Boras for a while, I get that.

But by no means does it make anyone a bitch to do what they feel is best for themselves and their career.

On the other hand, I get why the league can't have all it's star players in only a few markets, so I don't blame them for challenging the players and at least trying to restrict. I just usually side with labor on these matters, unless the labor ends up killing the league and in turn costs all the other labor their jobs.

IMO, declaring for the draft means agreeing to play by its rules, which includes deferring your right to choose your team until free agency. To circumvent that and demand to be drafted by a certain team might not make you a "bitch," but it is acting in bad faith, which is worthy of criticism.

He did play within the rules. The rules allow you to make threats, refuse to sign, etc. He was just good enough to have that kind of leverage. There's no rule that says you must sign a contract with whoever drafts you or you get locked up in jail. Even signing a contract still gives you the option to not play - you just don't get paid.

What he allegedly did was maybe unethical, but certainly not against any rules.

I would imagine that if any of us were that talented, that young, and knew they had the ability to choose where they wanted to play, we'd look at places like LA, CHI, maybe MIA, NY, maybe BOS, and possibly one or two other places rather than Charlotte, Milwaukee, Sacramento, or Cleveland. Besides the lifestyle and other things that those bigger cities have to offer, you also get more exposure which translates directly to $$$.

Why on Earth would you not finagle your way in to one of those markets if you could?

Again - simply looking at this from the worker's perspective. I find it hard to fault him. Fans can be understandably butthurt by stuff like this, but if you separate "sports" from reality, it's hard to hate him for it. Now, "sports hate" is a different thing - no problem "sports hating" him for it.

[FiddySicks]

Kobe is better than LeBron, too.

Um, in what universe?

[Ateles fusciceps]

Kobe refused to play for over 90% of the league back in '96.

More specifically, he strung the Nets along, then threatened to go play in Italy if they drafted him at the last minute. He also refused to work out for Sacramento (as mentioned a couple posts up) or Indiana. And we all know how he forced his way out of Charlotte. Kobe is simply trying to revise history even though the truth of what he pulled is all archived online, as well as trying to get attention at a time when Duncan is reigning as champion and LeBron and Melo are dominating the headlines.

Somehow that's considered less deserving of hate than LeBron wasting 7 years in Cleveland and switching teams in free agency, though.

LeBron isn't hated for leaving Cleveland, it's for the way he did it. He strung Cleveland out & left them with no time to make other roster plans. He went on national tv surrounded by Cleveland area kids & said "LoL see ya later losers." Then he went to Miami & acted like the biggest douche ever jumping on stage & proclaiming himself some sort of dynasty, before he'd ever won a damn thing.

90% of the people who bashed him wouldn't have cared if he would've acted like an adult. Go to Cleveland after the season ends & say "look, it's time for me to move on." Then signed in Miami without a freaking national 20/20 type interview/announcement & don't waltz around Miami acting like a big shot who owns the league.

[IceCap]

Kobe's five titles vs. LBJ's two is far too often used as an apples-to-apples comparison. It's not.

While titles aren't the end-all-be-all of a player's legacy you can't ignore then either. At the end of the day the number of rings James has in conparison to the other greats (Kobe Bryant included) will be a factor in evaluating his legacy.

Now James' career isn't over yet, so who knows what that discussion will look like? I can say that rings will be a factor.

[Ateles fusciceps]

Yeah, and people forgive Michael Jordan being a compulsive gambler and generally malevolent human being. That's because he's better than LeBron. Kobe is better than LeBron, too.

Michael Jordan doesn't have a gambling problem like people say. If Average Joe is out betting $10k on a hole of golf that's a problem. Michael Jordan is a billionaire, he can do it all day & it's not gonna hurt him.

[Lights Out]

Also, Kobe, like Jordan, was just lucky to largely avoid today's social media and 24-hour news cycle, so his behavior could more easily be swept under the rug.

Yes, alleged rapist Kobe Bryant lived a life of secrecy.

That story was too big to be ignored, obviously. I'm talking about far more minor things, like various backstories such as the ones Phil has written in his books. Nowadays, Woj would have tweeted out "Kobe has threatened to leave the Lakers and 'take Slava with him,' sources tell Y!" five minutes after it happened.

[Ateles fusciceps]

LeBron is being an attention whore again. He's freezing the market until so everyone is looking at him so he can sit around & make his decision. LeBron, Melo they know exactly what they're gonna do. They're just being prima donnas and soaking it for every bit of attention they can. And LeBron only wants a 2-3 year deal so he can turn around & do it a third time.

[Lights Out]

LeBron isn't hated for leaving Cleveland, it's for the way he did it.

Sorry, but The Decision - as big of a mistake as it was for LeBron - is nothing compared to the way Kobe treated multiple franchises before playing even a second of NBA basketball.

Could you imagine what the reaction would be if LeBron had told Cleveland on draft day to trade him or he'd go play in Europe?

[Still MIGHTY]

Biiiiiiiitch, bitch, biiiiiiiiiiitch, bitch, biiiiiiiiiiiiitttchhhhhhhhhhh

---

That story was too big to be ignored, obviously.

[IceCap]

LeBron isn't hated for leaving Cleveland, it's for the way he did it.

Sorry, but The Decision - as big of a mistake as it was for LeBron - is nothing compared to the way Kobe treated multiple franchises before playing even a second of NBA basketball.

That's revisionist history of the highest (lowest?) calibre and completely ridiculous.