NFL playoffs

[illwauk]

Hold on there. Wasn't the media ready to crown him "Best QB in Bears History © " as soon as he was traded?

As for the Elway comment, I have news for you. If you're a Broncos QB you better have at least two Super Bowls with Denver under your belt before you start saying you're better then Elway in ANY respect.

The local media did somewhat, but the national media did more piling on and complaining how demanding the trade "showed poor character" and proved his immaturity. Cutler was branded the spoiled brat and the biggest jerk ever. As for the Elway thing, I agree that it was very stupid of him. He said he had a stronger arm than Elway, and maybe he does, I don't know. Still, who freaking cares? It was a dumb thing to say, but it was hardly inflammatory. In Cutler's time in Chicago he has done nothing but get pounded by the national and local media. He hasn't been brash or said anything dumb, yet the media writes how he "doesn't care" and "isn't emotional enough to be a leader" and such rubbish.

I'm backing Roman here, because he's clearly right about Cutler. Take it from someone who lives where Cutler used to play, they (the Bronco fans) NEVER liked him, nor have they EVER liked any quarterback since John Elway. Yes, he did get the franchise their first two Super Bowls...

The franchise's only two Super Bowls. If you don't think that's an important distinction, think again.

It may just be the diction here that's causing me to read this wrong, because I take from that you two might think the Broncos have only been to two Super Bowls.

That said, let's backtrack here. Prior to 1997, even while he was in the midst of engineering all those comeback drives (apologies to Browns fans for bringing that up), the one knock on Elway was that he couldn't win the BIG ONE, having lost three SB's in the late '80s/early '90s timeframe (one of which was the most lopsided loss in SB history). It wasn't until that 1997 season that he helicoptered himself into NFL lore.

But yeah--Drakonius only confirmed something I've long suspected about Broncos fans: they can't/refuse to get over Elway.

>This< is why I'm so appreciative of the job Aaron Rodgers has done. He's done wonders to quell the local media fanboys (none of whom will admit they every sided with His Favreness at this point) and the blaze orange-clad, meth-addicted Packers "fans" who actually wanted them to fail for having the nerve to hold St. Brett to his word after his first "retirement." They blamed A-Rodg for everything that went wrong with the team in 2008 even though he had 4,000 yards and 30 TDs in his first year as a starter. Then they said he couldn't win close games. Then they said he'd never get them to the playoffs. Then they said he couldn't win in the playoffs. He's been held to insanely high standards by these morons and exceeded every single one of them. I can only hope that in two weeks it can be said that it only took Aaron Rodgers 3 years to accomplish everything his predecessor did in 16.

[Drakonius26]

Now that we're into waiting two weeks for the big game, who misses the old days when there was only one week between the conference championship and the SB?

Not really, two weeks is fine by me, since once the Super Bowl's over I focus my attention to basketball, hockey, and my league. I certainly don't pine for the days of such epic matchups like... this one... or this one... and even this one...

One can only hope we can experience those classic matchups once more.

Plus, it's nice to know we're not in a recession anymore...

[DG_ThenNowForever]

So is the Brian Griese era of the Broncos completely forgotten? Wasn't he the original Elway transition guy? Not that he set the world on fire, but he was an all-pro and led his team to the playoffs in 2000.

[Drakonius26]

So is the Brian Griese era of the Broncos completely forgotten? Wasn't he the original Elway transition guy? Not that he set the world on fire, but he was an all-pro and led his team to the playoffs in 2000.

It's not forgotten, but he was technically their Plan 1-B, once Bubby Brister showed that his 1998 season was a fluke.

Plus, I do want to state that while 90% of Bronco fans and the local media are like what I described previously, not all of them are that warped. I know that there might be Bronco fans on here that agree with me, and one of my best friends is a Bronco fan, without being stupid like that. So hopefully none of the Bronco fans that are here take it too personally.

[Sport]

Now that we're into waiting two weeks for the big game, who misses the old days when there was only one week between the conference championship and the SB?

"Bye-weeks. Bronco Nagurski didn't get no bye-weeks! And now he's dead! Well, maybe they're a good thing."

[rams80]

So um...getting back to Cutler. As a mental exercise, can anyone think of an instance where an NFL player gutted through a knee injury and led their team to victory? (With the latter part being critical-yeah it's awesome Rivers played the entire AFC Championship game on a torn ACL, but what gets lost in the shuffle is that he sucked that day and the Chargers lost.)

[TheOldRoman]

He is just an ass, just a bad teammate and of course he isn't a leader, but I have never once heard the media explain why.

Sure we have. Surely you read the Rick Reilly hit job (the factual basis of which hasn't been questioned). Cutler has been distant to his teammates, disdainful of the club's veterans, publicly indifferent to his leadership responsibilities and snubbed godlike former players on his old team.

Does that make him a bad quarterback? No. But it does make him an ass, a bad teammate and not a leader.

As far as what he was or was not doing on the sidelines, I still say he brought it on himself. I really hate Tom Brady, but I don't know that I've ever see him just stand there on the sidelines looking bored when a game's on the line. Part of a leader means putting on a game face. At least take off the stupid cape. And I know that perception isn't always reality, but for them to cut to Cutler so many times and find him standing alone means that he was actually spending most of the rest of the game not activly working with his replacements or the coaches.

Actually, I hadn't read the article until just now. When it came out the Chicago media ripped Reilly almost unanimously, but I didn't hear a response from the national (or Denver) media. The incidents with Elway show that Cutler was immature at the time, which he has admitted. From people who were at the press conference with Reilly, he asked a few leading questions and tried to get Jay to go off. Jay's biggest issue is that he is uncomfortable with the media. Instead of spouting off cliches when asked stupid questions, he gets snarky. Unless you consider talking to the press one of his leadership duties, I don't know in which way he ignored leadership duties. From his time with the Bears, it appears like he has changed a good deal. I could have missed it, but I didn't hear former Bronco teammates criticizing Cutler. From radio people who are in the locker room regularly and close with several players, they didn't find a Bear who would say anything bad about Cutler even off the record. I haven't seen any cockiness at all these last two years, he actually seems overstressed and defeated by the whole thing. Reilly seriously criticized Cutler for NOT publicizing buying Christmas gifts for needy children. He can't do anything right.

I am guessing your are referring to Brady being on the sidelines in street clothes when he was out with the torn ACL in 2008, because I don't remember him getting knocked out of any other game. If he was talking to other players or waving pom-poms, that is good for him. I don't think he came back onto the field after tearing his ACL in that one game. As I said, Cutler was listening to the coaches on the radio, going over the formations with the QBs, and giving them advice when they came off the field. I mean, Fox only showed him at times when he was standing by himself because they wanted to push the emoCutler angle. The fact that Fox chose those shots of Cutler didn't fit into the picture it wanted to paint isn't an indictment on Jay.

[TheOldRoman]

So um...getting back to Cutler. As a mental exercise, can anyone think of an instance where an NFL player gutted through a knee injury and led their team to victory? (With the latter part being critical-yeah it's awesome Rivers played the entire AFC Championship game on a torn ACL, but what gets lost in the shuffle is that he sucked that day and the Chargers lost.)

Good point. Cutler injured his knee sometime in the 4th quarter. They are now saying it may have been more towards the beginning of the quarter, but either way, he played a few drives with the injured knee. He came back out after halftime and shorthopped a few 8 yard passes. Any QB not named Todd Collins would have been better than him after that. He wanted to be out there, but Lovie pulled him because he couldn't throw well.

[infrared41]

Now that we're into waiting two weeks for the big game, who misses the old days when there was only one week between the conference championship and the SB?

Maybe I'm mistaken but hasn't it always been two weeks between the conference championships and the Super Bowl? Weren't the years where there was only one week due to either a strike season or a quirk in the calendar?

[rams80]

Now that we're into waiting two weeks for the big game, who misses the old days when there was only one week between the conference championship and the SB?

Maybe I'm mistaken but hasn't it always been two weeks between the conference championships and the Super Bowl? Weren't the years where there was only one week due to either a strike season or a quirk in the calendar?

Or 9/11.

[TalktoChuck]

It may just be the diction here that's causing me to read this wrong, because I take from that you two might think the Broncos have only been to two Super Bowls.

That said, let's backtrack here. Prior to 1997, even while he was in the midst of engineering all those comeback drives (apologies to Browns fans for bringing that up), the one knock on Elway was that he couldn't win the BIG ONE, having lost three SB's in the late '80s/early '90s timeframe (one of which was the most lopsided loss in SB history). It wasn't until that 1997 season that he helicoptered himself into NFL lore.

But yeah--Drakonius only confirmed something I've long suspected about Broncos fans: they can't/refuse to get over Elway.

The Broncos have been to more than two Super Bowls (6 total), and if I remember correctly only one of them was without John Elway. But yeah, let's not forget that the two teams that won the Super Bowl had a ton of talent on them and it wasn't John Elway who won it all by himself.

The local media did somewhat, but the national media did more piling on and complaining how demanding the trade "showed poor character" and proved his immaturity. Cutler was branded the spoiled brat and the biggest jerk ever. As for the Elway thing, I agree that it was very stupid of him. He said he had a stronger arm than Elway, and maybe he does, I don't know. Still, who freaking cares? It was a dumb thing to say, but it was hardly inflammatory. In Cutler's time in Chicago he has done nothing but get pounded by the national and local media. He hasn't been brash or said anything dumb, yet the media writes how he "doesn't care" and "isn't emotional enough to be a leader" and such rubbish.

I think that is the problem. The thing about Cutler is that he doesn't care at all (about anything, it seems like). He doesn't give a s**t what people or the media think about him, he is who he is and he isn't gonna change (And I respect that to a certain extent). The media is used to people getting emotional and making scenes, but Cutler doesn't really do any of that when it comes to interviews. And I think all this negative reaction and dragging his name through the mud is just to get him to blow-up and cause a scene. That is my theory at least, because honestly the guy hasn't done anything worse than any other NFL player. The biggest thing that stuck out to me about the situation was all the NFL players jumping on him for leaving the game, especially Maurice Jones-Drew, who sat on the bench in the last two games of the season(games that had huge implications on the Jaguars playoff chances).

I'm backing Roman here, because he's clearly right about Cutler. Take it from someone who lives where Cutler used to play, they (the Bronco fans) NEVER liked him, nor have they EVER liked any quarterback since John Elway. Yes, he did get the franchise their first two Super Bowls...

That is a bit of a stretch. Nobody really liked Greise, but I doubt anyone hated the guy. He was just kind of there. And as for Plummer, from what I got most of the fans liked Plummer. That was until he flipped off the fans in that Miami game, and then it was all downhill from there. Cutler was kind of a mixed reaction. A lot of people didn't like him but there was a fair share of fans that loved him (Most of them still do surprisingly). And you're crazy if you think that this town isn't head over heels in love with Tim Tebow. He's played three games (with average performances at best) and half the town is already crowning him the next John Elway.

[rams80]

Regarding MJD, based on a quick scan of Jaguars sites, he did play hurt in a critical game against the Colts and (Surprise Surprise!) sucked that day.

[TalktoChuck]

Regarding MJD, based on a quick scan of Jaguars sites, he did play hurt in a critical game against the Colts and (Surprise Surprise!) sucked that day.

Yeah, I wouldn't expect him to be good in the last two games. I was just merely commenting on the fact that a guy who sat out the last two games that could've got his team into the playoffs, was calling out a guy for having to sit out half of the NFC Championship Game. Seems as though MJD is chucking stones from his glass house.

[Drakonius26]

It may just be the diction here that's causing me to read this wrong, because I take from that you two might think the Broncos have only been to two Super Bowls.

That said, let's backtrack here. Prior to 1997, even while he was in the midst of engineering all those comeback drives (apologies to Browns fans for bringing that up), the one knock on Elway was that he couldn't win the BIG ONE, having lost three SB's in the late '80s/early '90s timeframe (one of which was the most lopsided loss in SB history). It wasn't until that 1997 season that he helicoptered himself into NFL lore.

But yeah--Drakonius only confirmed something I've long suspected about Broncos fans: they can't/refuse to get over Elway.

The Broncos have been to more than two Super Bowls (6 total), and if I remember correctly only one of them was without John Elway. But yeah, let's not forget that the two teams that won the Super Bowl had a ton of talent on them and it wasn't John Elway who won it all by himself.

The local media did somewhat, but the national media did more piling on and complaining how demanding the trade "showed poor character" and proved his immaturity. Cutler was branded the spoiled brat and the biggest jerk ever. As for the Elway thing, I agree that it was very stupid of him. He said he had a stronger arm than Elway, and maybe he does, I don't know. Still, who freaking cares? It was a dumb thing to say, but it was hardly inflammatory. In Cutler's time in Chicago he has done nothing but get pounded by the national and local media. He hasn't been brash or said anything dumb, yet the media writes how he "doesn't care" and "isn't emotional enough to be a leader" and such rubbish.

I think that is the problem. The thing about Cutler is that he doesn't care at all (about anything, it seems like). He doesn't give a s**t what people or the media think about him, he is who he is and he isn't gonna change (And I respect that to a certain extent). The media is used to people getting emotional and making scenes, but Cutler doesn't really do any of that when it comes to interviews. And I think all this negative reaction and dragging his name through the mud is just to get him to blow-up and cause a scene. That is my theory at least, because honestly the guy hasn't done anything worse than any other NFL player. The biggest thing that stuck out to me about the situation was all the NFL players jumping on him for leaving the game, especially Maurice Jones-Drew, who sat on the bench in the last two games of the season(games that had huge implications on the Jaguars playoff chances).

I'm backing Roman here, because he's clearly right about Cutler. Take it from someone who lives where Cutler used to play, they (the Bronco fans) NEVER liked him, nor have they EVER liked any quarterback since John Elway. Yes, he did get the franchise their first two Super Bowls...

That is a bit of a stretch. Nobody really liked Greise, but I doubt anyone hated the guy. He was just kind of there. And as for Plummer, from what I got most of the fans liked Plummer. That was until he flipped off the fans in that Miami game, and then it was all downhill from there. Cutler was kind of a mixed reaction. A lot of people didn't like him but there was a fair share of fans that loved him (Most of them still do surprisingly). And you're crazy if you think that this town isn't head over heels in love with Tim Tebow. He's played three games (with average performances at best) and half the town is already crowning him the next John Elway.

You're proving my point, Chuck. John Elway didn't win those Super Bowls all by himself, it was a team-effort. But a lot of local media personalities and fans seem to think he was the only reason they won. But as for Jake Plummer, things were going downhill well before that Miami game, and everyone (more media than fans) I heard constantly complained about his inconsistent play. His flip-off was just the signal (pun not intended) that he had had enough of them and the Broncos. Of course, drafting Cutler didn't help Mike Shanahan's relationship with Plummer either. As for Cutler, it was mixed, but because he didn't win as much as the media and fans thought he would (coupled with his personality: See this year's NFC Championship) most were sick of him. Yes, you still have the crowd that wants him back, because they realize Josh McDaniels was/is an idiot (mostly when it comes to dealing with people), but hindsight is 20/20.

As for Tim Tebow though, I hope he succeeds. I like him, but three starts does not justify whether they really like him or not. Let's see if they like him if he struggles (which he will, naturally) and not turn on him as quickly as they have with prior quarterbacks. Like I said, this isn't an anti-Denver, or anti-Bronco post, it's just simply the truth. Hopefully, there are going to be people who're seemingly intelligent like you Chuck, that will support him, beyond the organization, because right now everybody believes he will be a bust.

[BlueSky]

Now that we're into waiting two weeks for the big game, who misses the old days when there was only one week between the conference championship and the SB?

Maybe I'm mistaken but hasn't it always been two weeks between the conference championships and the Super Bowl? Weren't the years where there was only one week due to either a strike season or a quirk in the calendar?

Or 9/11.

Yeah, I think you're right. So much for nostalgia.

[tBBP]

I'd be disdainful of Olin Kreutz too if I kept getting pancaked behind him or dealing with his dwindling ability to snap a football, and when your receivers seemingly live on another planet like Knox and Hester do, everyone is distant. It's so hard to assess anything interpersonal about Cutler when he's so thoroughly surrounded by jackasses.

Then I'm even more confused to why he's distant to his teammates...if they're all jackasses and he's a complete jackass then they should get along swimmingly, right? A bunch of jackasses partaking in jackassery. Sounds like a recipie for good locker room chemisty to me. Go figure. Maybe they're just an ultra competitive bunch of jackasses having a who's the biggest jackass contest and Cutler's winning.

Just one minor thing missing from that thesis: they're not coached by THE jackass of all jackass coaches (or maybe of all jackasses period).

So is the Brian Griese era of the Broncos completely forgotten? Wasn't he the original Elway transition guy? Not that he set the world on fire, but he was an all-pro and led his team to the playoffs in 2000.

It should be noted Trent Dilfer was also once an All-Pro. In the 1997 season, widely seen as Tampa Bay's own "transition" season. They also made the playoffs that season for the first time in 15 years.

/Perspective!

(Caveat: Dilfer only got in as an injury replacement...but was named All-Pro nonetheless.)

[BlueSky]

I'd be disdainful of Olin Kreutz too if I kept getting pancaked behind him or dealing with his dwindling ability to snap a football, and when your receivers seemingly live on another planet like Knox and Hester do, everyone is distant. It's so hard to assess anything interpersonal about Cutler when he's so thoroughly surrounded by jackasses.

Then I'm even more confused to why he's distant to his teammates...if they're all jackasses and he's a complete jackass then they should get along swimmingly, right? A bunch of jackasses partaking in jackassery. Sounds like a recipie for good locker room chemisty to me. Go figure. Maybe they're just an ultra competitive bunch of jackasses having a who's the biggest jackass contest and Cutler's winning.

Just one minor thing missing from that thesis: they're not coached by THE jackass of all jackass coaches (or maybe of all jackasses period).

So is the Brian Griese era of the Broncos completely forgotten? Wasn't he the original Elway transition guy? Not that he set the world on fire, but he was an all-pro and led his team to the playoffs in 2000.

It should be noted Trent Dilfer was also once an All-Pro. In the 1997 season, widely seen as Tampa Bay's own "transition" season. They also made the playoffs that season for the first time in 15 years.

/Perspective!

(Caveat: Dilfer only got in as an injury replacement...but was named All-Pro nonetheless.)

I'm with you, Buc. Trent Dilfer was the starting QB on a SB-winning team and not many guys can say that. I'm quite sure the Marinos of the world would trade all their gaudy stats to be able to say they earned a ring.

[BBTV]

He is the best quarterback in Bears history, which is a damning indictment of Bears history.

Granted I'm not that well versed in Bears history. Is Cutler really better then Jim McMahon?

I don't think that Jim McMahon's numbers were very good, nor was he very talented (the Bears dumped him, then the Chargers dumped him) but he was a heck of a leader, and raised the level of everyone around him (when he was actually on the field - dude got hurt A LOT.) He was loved in Philadelphia for this, with many calling for him to permenantly replace Randall.

[The_Admiral]

Kyle Orton - neckbeard + headband = Jim McMahon

[infrared41]

Kyle Orton - neckbeard + headband = Jim McMahon

I was all set to argue that McMahon was much better than Kyle Orton. So I went to the pro-football reference site to look up McMahon's stats. At the site they have a comparison section called "similar players." Here are some of the names pro-football reference believes were similar to McMahon.

The site does a year by year comparison so these QBs would be considered similar to Jim McMahon based on their performance after four years in the league. In McMahon's case his fourth year was the 1985 season. The '85 season was also McMahon's best for passing yardage.

Fran Tarkenton, Neil O'Donnell, Rodney Peete, Charlie Batch, Charley Johnson, Archie Manning, Norm Snead, Rick Mirer, David Carr, Tony Banks.

McMahon's next best season in passing yardage was in 1991 with the Eagles. Here are are similar players to McMahon after ten seasons in the league...

Bill Kenney, Charley Johnson, Neil O'Donnell, Dan Pastorini, Trent Dilfer, Ed Brown, John Brodie, Eddie LeBaron, Jack Kemp, Chris Miller.

There are a couple of names on both lists that, while statistically similar to Jim McMahon, are held in much higher regard than he is today. I don't know what any of that means, I just found it interesting.

It would seem to me that BBTV was dead on with his assessment of Jim McMahon.