Say it ain't so, Joe

[DG_ThenNowForever]

1 minute ago, Viola73 said:

So, if by "nuking" the program that allowed it to happen, shouldn't we also nuke child services who investigated Sandusky and found nothing. Nuke the state police who investigated Sandusky and found nothing. These are the people who had the true power to stop Sandusky and wound up with bupkis. 

 

This is the worst opinion.

[IceCap]

52 minutes ago, Viola73 said:

So, if by "nuking" the program that allowed it to happen, shouldn't we also nuke child services who investigated Sandusky and found nothing. Nuke the state police who investigated Sandusky and found nothing. These are the people who had the true power to stop Sandusky and wound up with bupkis. 

Joe Paterno, at best, knew this was happening as "late" as the 1990s. At worst? He knew as far back as 1976. He did nothing.

Laying the appropriate blame at the feet of Paterno, the football program as a whole, and the school administration doesn't excuse the missteps on the part of the government agencies that failed to stop a pedophile. It doesn't make Paterno, the program, and the administration innocent either.

 

Go on though. Keep showing us that brilliant Penn State lack of perspective. Weren't you the guy who, in this very thread, was still referring to Jerry Sandusky as "Sandy" even after the totality of his crimes (or at least what we thought were the totality of his crimes) came to light?

[Viola73]

9 minutes ago, DG_Now said:

 

This is the worst opinion.

You have had many more than mine.

[Viola73]

3 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

Joe Paterno, at best, knew this was happening as "late" as the 1990s. At worst? He knew as far back as 1976. He did nothing.

Laying the appropriate blame at the feet of Paterno, the football program as a whole, and the school administration doesn't excuse the missteps on the part of the government agencies that failed to stop a child predator. It doesn't make Paterno, the program, and the administration innocent either.

 

Go on though. Keep showing us that brilliant Penn State lack of perspective. Weren't you the guy who, in this very thread, was still referring to Jerry Sandusky as "Sandy" even after the totality of his crimes (or at least what we thought were the totality of his crimes) came to light?

The 76 incident is still in question because the full details have not come out. An ALLEGED (that's what was in the new report by the judge) encounter between a kid and Paterno where the kid said that Sandusky molested him....so what did Paterno tell the kid? Where did this take place? Why wasn't this brought up in the big trial against Sandusky? Also, these numerous unnamed assistant coaches who saw all this...why didn't THEY go to the cops, since they actually saw these acts.

 

Of course these are questions that any open minded person would ask before making accusations because only knowing the full content, and evidence, of the situation can someone make a judgement.

 What Sandusky did was horrific, perverted, morally detestable, criminal, mind raping, and stealing of innocence. What is needed to put someone like him in prison is EVIDENCE, just like in any other criminal case. I know this escapes you, like most on this thread, but when agencies, numerous agencies, investigate a person and find nothing....they find nothing and move on to another case. Plus, they need witnesses, a person who actually saw the act take place and can testify in court as to what they saw. 

This is where we divide. You think Paterno should.....should....have done more, but if all he has is people telling him that Sandusky is doing these things, all he can do is tell those people to go to the cops. 

[Lights Out]

^ Exhibit A of why not giving Penn State the death penalty was the worst decision the NCAA has ever made.

[IceCap]

39 minutes ago, Viola73 said:

Of course these are questions that any open minded person would ask before making accusations because only knowing the full content, and evidence, of the situation can someone make a judgement.

Here's the thing. Penn State's behaviour over the course of all of this has shredded any good will they might have had. They don't get the benefit of the doubt due to this scandal exposing every dirty secret they kept.

So what did Paterno tell the kid back in '76? I'm inclined to believe Paterno probably told the kid to keep quiet. Why didn't those assistant coaches come forward? Well judging by everything we know about how Penn State Football operated? They were probably threatened or bribed into silence.

 

Your gut reaction is to assume I'm being unreasonable. What you either don't or can't understand is that I'm taking this position because the investigations into this mess have revealed a Penn State apparatus that would be totally willing to tell a child who had been sexually abused to keep quiet, and willing to threaten or bribe an assistant coach to keep quiet, all in the name of protecting Paterno's cult of personality and the prestige of the football program.

That's how low the investigations into this have brought Penn State's reputation. That the scummiest answers to all the questions you want us to ask ourselves not only seem possible but also probable.

 

39 minutes ago, Viola73 said:

What is needed to put someone like him in prison is EVIDENCE, just like in any other criminal case. I know this escapes you, like most on this thread, but when agencies, numerous agencies, investigate a person and find nothing....they find nothing and move on to another case. Plus, they need witnesses, a person who actually saw the act take place and can testify in court as to what they saw. 

Jerry Sandusky is in jail for his crimes because the courts got that evidence. The process of getting it also exposed Penn State as a black hole of morality, where a man who aided a pedophile was raised up to a level of public adoration usually reserved for members of the Kim family, mostly because he was a good football coach.

To your larger point...the failures of the government agencies do not excuse the failures of Joe Paterno and the rest of the PSU administration that followed him. I don't get why that's such a hard concept to grasp.

[Viola73]

8 minutes ago, Lights Out said:

^ Exhibit A of why not giving Penn State the death penalty was the worst decision the NCAA has ever made.

So asking questions and wanting to know more about a situation before making a decision is cause to burn down an institute. The Truth has to come before punishment. Until we know the whole truth we just have assumptions....it's sad to think that we may never know the whole truth...for me the whole truth is knowing ALL that happened and ALL involved. 

You have to think there are victims still out there that Sandusky took their, well.....their lives. 

[IceCap]

1 minute ago, Viola73 said:

So asking questions and wanting to know more about a situation before making a decision is cause to burn down an institute. The Truth has to come before punishment. Until we know the whole truth we just have assumptions....it's sad to think that we may never know the whole truth...for me the whole truth is knowing ALL that happened and ALL involved. 

You have to think there are victims still out there that Sandusky took their, well.....their lives. 

You're not interested in the truth. You're just interested in preserving the "legacy" of Joe Paterno.

As for the punishment...Jerry Sandusky is in prison. And will likely die there. The institution that aided him though...they got off with a slap on the writs. A slap on the wrist that they were later apologized to for. The institution has yet to be fully punished. You don't want to admit that though, because you're not interested in truth. You're only interested in ensuring your idols aren't tarnished.

[Lights Out]

7 minutes ago, Viola73 said:

So asking questions and wanting to know more about a situation before making a decision is cause to burn down an institute. The Truth has to come before punishment. Until we know the whole truth we just have assumptions....it's sad to think that we may never know the whole truth...for me the whole truth is knowing ALL that happened and ALL involved. 

You have to think there are victims still out there that Sandusky took their, well.....their lives. 

That's how you're spinning it, but your defensiveness and immediate jump to what-abouts and well-actuallies says it all. People like you who keep trying to deflect blame just futher prove that the toxic culture around Penn State football hasn't gone anywhere.

 

Newsflash: nobody gives a rat's ass about your football program, your pants- :censored:ting old fool of a coach or his fraud legacy when children were systematically raped and abused on their watch. There's nothing to defend, because it's indefensible.

[IceCap]

The hockey team wearing those "409" stickers proves that it's beyond just the football team. It's everywhere. The Cult of Paterno really does run through the entire school. The culture can't be fully cleansed until the football program's gone. For how long, I don't know. It just needs to be turned into a smoking crater, at least for a little while. So Penn State isn't about football. At least for a little while. Maybe permanently. The idolization needs to stop. The devotion needs to stop. The entire PSU community needs some G-ddamn perspective.

 

It just seems...incredibly sad that schools have gotten the death penalty over paying recruits under the table. Something that probably should be happening legally. Yet the school that engages in covering up a serial sexual abuser of children? They get a series of light penalties. Penalties that are redacted soon afterwards anyway. And it's Penn State fans and alumni that want to play the victim card? How incredibly pathetic.

[Viola73]

35 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

Here's the thing. Penn State's behaviour over the course of all of this has shredded any good will they might have had. They don't get the benefit of the doubt due to this scandal exposing every dirty secret they kept.

So what did Paterno tell the kid back in '76? I'm inclined to believe Paterno probably told the kid to keep quiet. Why didn't those assistant coaches come forward? Well judging by everything we know about how Penn State Football operated? They were probably threatened or bribed into silence.

 

Your gut reaction is to assume I'm being unreasonable. What you either don't or can't understand is that I'm taking this position because the investigations into this mess have revealed a Penn State apparatus that would be totally willing to tell a child who had been sexually abused to keep quiet, and willing to threaten or bribe an assistant coach to keep quiet, all in the name of protecting Paterno's cult of personality and the prestige of the football program.

That's how low the investigations into this have brought Penn State's reputation. That the scummiest answers to all the questions you want us to ask ourselves not only seem possible but also probable.

 

Jerry Sandusky is in jail for his crimes because the courts got that evidence. The process of getting it also exposed Penn State as a black hole of morality, where a man who aided a pedophile was raised up to a level of public adoration usually reserved for members of the Kim family, mostly because he was a good football coach.

To your larger point...the failures of the government agencies do not excuse the failures of Joe Paterno and the rest of the PSU administration that followed him. I don't get why that's such a hard concept to grasp.

Well, your opinion, is that Paterno told the kid to keep quiet...that's your opinion. Mine is that he told the kid to tell his parents and go to the cops. I come to this conclusion due to the fact that he took McQueary to the Administration and tell them what he saw. Why would Paterno do this, being the scumbag that you think he was, instead of just telling him to keep quiet? 

As for being unreasonable, it is common for someone to think like you do when there are facts of a case and then there are also allegations. Someone who doesn't deal with these concepts on a regular basis usually bled them together to get to a point where they believe what they want to believe. Of course you want to take this further by destroying n entire community.

[FiddySicks]

I have this feeling that Penn State football could be dead and nothing but an old myth within five years. This is just too much. Kill it with fire. 

[IceCap]

6 minutes ago, Viola73 said:

...it is common for someone to think like you do when there are facts of a case and then there are also allegations. Someone who doesn't deal with these concepts on a regular basis...

Swing and a miss.

 

7 minutes ago, Viola73 said:

Of course you want to take this further by destroying n entire community.

Not an entire community. Just a sick, perverse, delusional cult of personality that's poisoned an entire community. Your inability to separate Joe Paterno and those that aided him in covering up Sandusky from Penn State as a whole really just illustrates my point.

[Lights Out]

3 minutes ago, Bucfan56 said:

I have this feeling that Penn State football could be dead and nothing but an old myth within five years. This is just too much. Kill it with fire. 

It won't be, unfortunately. Penn State is a cash cow in a Power Five conference, which means they're protected from any real on-field consequences for their actions. The NCAA has proven over and over again that they are too chicken :censored: to punish the big schools no matter how far over the line of human decency they cross.

[Viola73]

33 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

You're not interested in the truth. You're just interested in preserving the "legacy" of Joe Paterno.

As for the punishment...Jerry Sandusky is in prison. And will likely die there. The institution that aided him though...they got off with a slap on the writs. A slap on the wrist that they were later apologized to for. The institution has yet to be fully punished. You don't want to admit that though, because you're not interested in truth. You're only interested in ensuring your idols aren't tarnished.

I actually am. You, on the other hand, jumped at the opportunity to announce your disgust  over a single sentence about an alleged encounter between a kid and Joe. You didnt ask questions as to if there is more to this situation. This actually could be more damning to Paterno if the full story is brought to light...you'd like that right? I, unlike you, want those who did wrong...ACTUAL WRONG...to be punished and I want the punishments to fit the crime....but you seem to want a certain person to be punished more than others because he...well...won football games. Then, you want to burn down an entire institution...even the region...to give you..YOU...satisfaction. Again, how does this help the victims?

[IceCap]

Your interpretation of my motives is laughable. And only really makes sense through the lens of someone completely detached from reality. It's also disgusting. 

 

2 minutes ago, Viola73 said:

This actually could be more damning to Paterno if the full story is brought to light...you'd like that right?

No, actually. If the '76 claim is proven to be accurate? It means more children were hurt. And I don't want that to be the case.

You seem to be operating under the deluded impression that I'm out to get Penn State and Joe Paterno. Which seems to be a common knee-jerk reaction amongst the PSU faithful.

No, I'm thoroughly disgusted with what Jerry Sandusky did. And I want him, and everyone who aided him, punished. That means Joe Paterno. That means the football program as a whole.

 

It takes a special, sick mind to try and deflect blame from those responsible and claim they're interested in "justice."

[Viola73]

47 minutes ago, Lights Out said:

That's how you're spinning it, but your defensiveness and immediate jump to what-abouts and well-actuallies says it all. People like you who keep trying to deflect blame just futher prove that the toxic culture around Penn State football hasn't gone anywhere.

 

Newsflash: nobody gives a rat's ass about your football program, your pants- :censored:ting old fool of a coach or his fraud legacy when children were systematically raped and abused on their watch. There's nothing to defend, because it's indefensible.

The only thing spinning is your head over the fact that there is someone, me, who doesn't bye into the groupthink pact mentality who wants to inflict as much pain on entire community because a sick, perverted, twisted, individual molested a bunch of kids. Something that we all know he did in the Commons of Penn State, at pep rallies, and as halftime entertainment at basketball games. Because they ALL knew, right? 

 

Newsflash: you care enough to post your little rant. 

[Viola73]

25 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

Your inability to separate Joe Paterno and those that aided him in covering up Sandusky from Penn State as a whole really just illustrates my point.

You just prove my point that you actually believe that Paterno took an ACTIVE roll in covering up Sanduskys trysts when there has been ZERO evidence that Paterno covered up anything. 

[Viola73]

46 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

Your interpretation of my motives is laughable. And only really makes sense through the lens of someone completely detached from reality. It's also disgusting. 

 

No, actually. If the '76 claim is proven to be accurate? It means more children were hurt. And I don't want that to be the case.

You seem to be operating under the deluded impression that I'm out to get Penn State and Joe Paterno. Which seems to be a common knee-jerk reaction amongst the PSU faithful.

No, I'm thoroughly disgusted with what Jerry Sandusky did. And I want him, and everyone who aided him, punished. That means Joe Paterno. That means the football program as a whole.

 

It takes a special, sick mind to try and deflect blame from those responsible and claim they're interested in "justice."

You say you not out to get Joe Paterno and Penn State, then turn around and say that Paterno and the football program (PSU) need to be punished? It takes a special, sick mind to try and place blame on those responsible before the facts, and claim they're interested in "justice."

 

[Viola73]

1 hour ago, Bucfan56 said:

I have this feeling that Penn State football could be dead and nothing but an old myth within five years. This is just too much. Kill it with fire. 

I will make this statement. If it comes out that '76 incident (all of it. What Joe did or didn't do) shows that Joe did nothing (tell the kid to be quiet, brushed him off, gave no advice of who to turn to and report it) then I would accept the death penalty for the program and make a public declaration of submission on this board.