Say it ain't so, Joe

[Gothamite]

I'm not sure I want to read what I wrote then.  This is just too depressing. 

[Sport]

 

Listen, I have a lot of sports heroes and some of them have let me down before so I understand it's hard, but if one of my heroes did this I'd wash my hands of him. Why continue to defend an obviously flawed man? 

[CS85]

10 hours ago, DG_Now said:

This was a good thread. Lots of righteous indignation, including from me. I can't believe it's been four years!

 

What happened to The Old Roman?

 

 

He's around.  

 

It's weird reading my posts from 2011.  I feel like I barely knew how to write then.  It's cringe-worthy.

 

Not nearly as cringe worthy as many of the brazen pro-Penn State and JoePa defenders arguments, however.

[Gothamite]

44 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

 

Listen, I have a lot of sports heroes and some of them have let me down before so I understand it's hard, but if one of my heroes did this I'd wash my hands of him. Why continue to defend an obviously flawed man? 

 

Lack of perspective.  Tribal identity.  

 

Some people treat sports like religion, especially college sports, and we've also seen enough people defend religious figures in the exact same situation. 

[Nyk33]

3 hours ago, McCarthy said:

 

Listen, I have a lot of sports heroes and some of them have let me down before so I understand it's hard, but if one of my heroes did this I'd wash my hands of him. Why continue to defend an obviously flawed man? 

 

Because they're fools and they're idiots. There is no other explanation for why any human being would have any sort of reverence for Paterno. 

 

Case in point.

[JayMac]

As an alum, I try moving on from that whole time period but then more comes out...I just want to focus on the present! 

[dfwabel]

31 minutes ago, jmac11281 said:

As an alum, I try moving on from that whole time period but then more comes out...I just want to focus on the present! 

Not sure if focusing on the James Franklin era is much better.

[JayMac]

1 hour ago, dfwabel said:

Not sure if focusing on the James Franklin era is much better.

Sadly, you are correct.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

2 hours ago, jmac11281 said:

As an alum, I try moving on from that whole time period but then more comes out...I just want to focus on the present! 

 

I really don't like this response. When everyone "moves on" you get to ignore the terrible things the University condoned for decades.

 

We don't need to rehash 100 pages of thread, but "moving on" is super easy for football fans and others who could have done more in the moment. It's less easy for the very real victims in this case.

[dfwabel]

32 minutes ago, DG_Now said:

 

I really don't like this response. When everyone "moves on" you get to ignore the terrible things the University condoned for decades.

 

We don't need to rehash 100 pages of thread, but "moving on" is super easy for football fans and others who could have done more in the moment. It's less easy for the very real victims in this case.

I suggest not going back to the thread regarding the death of Paterno. There are lots of banned members there too.

 

http://boards.sportslogos.net/topic/85307-joe-paterno-dead/?page=1

[BBTV]

1 hour ago, DG_Now said:

 

I really don't like this response. When everyone "moves on" you get to ignore the terrible things the University condoned for decades.

 

We don't need to rehash 100 pages of thread, but "moving on" is super easy for football fans and others who could have done more in the moment. It's less easy for the very real victims in this case.

 

 

Agreed that it's easy to say you're moving on, but honestly what's the alternative?  Keep saying the same things over and over again?  Nobody here is going to help anyone that was hurt by Sandusky's raping and Paterno's gross negligence.  There's basically two options - move on, or just keep repeating the same things.

 

I forget - did they ever put the statue back up?  If so, they shouldn't have regardless of any new info, but if so, they definitely need to remove it now (assuming this is true - which I do - but the accuser does have something to gain here.)

 

What also really needs to happen is the politicians of the time that we know it was known - dickhead Tom Corbett and gov Rendell - need to be held to the fire for what they knew and didn't do.

 

Penn State alums are ridiculously defensive - just like IMO most alums of schools with big-time athletics are.  Shutting down the program now doesn't really accomplish a thing - if they didn't do it at first then it's silly to do it now when nobody involved is administering anything.  I think that there are two issues here - the corruption that is inherent in big-time college athletics and how nobody wants to damage a cash cow - and Paterno's stubborness, senility, and general ignorance to reality resulting in his refusal to believe that "shower sex" or having sex with boys was even a thing that could possibly happen.  The latter took care of itself - the former can only be accomplished by a national change in culture, which unfortunately isn't going to happen.

 

[IceCap]

Just  Penn State. There are a few alums here who have proven to be good people with a sense of perspective but I'm just past that now. I'm sorry guys. You're alright. Your school is run, supported, and mostly attended by garbage people.

[The_Admiral]

8 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

the former can only be accomplished by a national change in culture, which unfortunately isn't going to happen.

 

You sure about this? An example: For all the talk about how the humanities are worthless and STEM rules all, the language of culture war has gone from humanities classrooms to the mainstream over, really, only about the last two years. Go back to the beginning of this thread in 2012 and nobody would have known or cared about privilege-checking, progressive stacks, microaggressions, intersectionality, mansplaining, manspreading,"people of color" as a term that I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW isn't mothballed and gross, and whatever else I'm leaving out. There's been a quantum leap in how we talk about people who aren't white males just since the last presidential election. Speaking of, a self-described socialist once familiar only to C-SPAN2 junkies is gonna win 20+ primaries. I wouldn't rule any culture changes out going forward; world's moving too fast.

[dfwabel]

An issue is that Paterno assisted Penn State getting in the Big Ten.

 

And getting into  the Big Ten granted the university to join the CIC, basically one of the three most important groups of research universities in the USA (outside of the UC System and IVY League). Their CIC membership and access is what others desire in the Big XII and their current issues.

 

http://news.psu.edu/story/165214/2010/09/03/penn-state-reaps-benefits-cic-membership

 

His focus on the larger prize ruined what is now seen to be hundreds  of children.

[Gothamite]

1 hour ago, DG_Now said:

 

I really don't like this response. When everyone "moves on" you get to ignore the terrible things the University condoned for decades.

 

We don't need to rehash 100 pages of thread, but "moving on" is super easy for football fans and others who could have done more in the moment. It's less easy for the very real victims in this case.

 

Exactly.   The University should do a few things first. 

 

Make the victims as whole as they can be. 

 

Spend at least as long working to prevent child abuse as your employees spent covering it up.  

 

Spend as much effort and money educating the public on Paterno's real legacy as you spent propping up a lie. 

 

Then, maybe then, we can talk about "moving on".   Right now, that's just shorthand for "we want to go back pretending these bad things weren't done in our name."

[TheRicSlick]

Another thing I find disgusting is that the NCAA lifted all its restrictions early. Because, "Oh no! Penn State went 6-6, the horror!!!" Well you shouldn't have even won those 6 games as you should have gotten the "death penalty".

 

Also, usually I'm not a fan of vacating wins, but I find it's perfect in Joe Pa's case. I just wish they kept his wins vacated.

[BBTV]

What changed between

Just now, rickyISking said:

Another thing I find disgusting is that the NCAA lifted all its restrictions early. Because, "Oh no! Penn State went 6-6, the horror!!!" Well you shouldn't have even won those 6 games as you should have gotten the "death penalty".

 

Also, usually in not a fan of vacating wins, but I find it's perfect in Joe Pa's case. I just wish they kept his wins vacated.

 

What would the death penalty have accomplished? 

[Gothamite]

5 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

What would the death penalty have accomplished? 

 

Deterrent, if nothing else. 

 

 

[BBTV]

6 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

 

Deterrent, if nothing else. 

 

 

 

Fair enough, though I hate the idea of punishing the innocent, which seems to be a uniquely college thing.

[IceCap]

50 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

Fair enough, though I hate the idea of punishing the innocent, which seems to be a uniquely college thing.

I never saw the death penalty as punishing the innocent in this case. 

More like the administration and faculty at Penn State knowingly covered up rape for decades to preserve the football team's "good name." The prestige and legacy of the football program clouded the good judgement of those that should have known better. 

Therefore the school and its culture as a whole had sort of proven that they didn't deserve to have a team. They'd allowed it to cloud their judgement to such an extent that they were covering up one of the most heinous crimes possible. 

 

I donno. Everyone involved in trying to prop up this garbage legacy has just sort of left me saying "you don't deserve any of this." 

Make things as easy as possible for the kids who need to transfer to other programs, but the program itself is beyond saving.