NBA C Jason Collins comes out as gay

[IceCap]

Riki, I think it's safe to say we fall on the same side of things when it comes to the issue of gay rights.

That being said, shut up.

[DaRadniz29]

I realized in my previous post I used lifestyle in two instances and I know that's not how people who are gay see themselves and I personally think being gay isn't a choice because if I tried to be gay it wouldn't work, because I'm not attracted to men. I just was trying to see from the side of those who disagree with what they believe is a lifestyle.

All I can go on is what I believe, and I mentioned I had a lot to say on gay rights, so I guess I'll say some of it now and save the rest for my blog. While this probably doesn't have to be said a reminder to please be open about one's beliefs regardless of your personal feeling towards this issue.

I support gay rights and you should be able to love who you love. I'm not sure all people who disagree with being gay, or don't understand it, etcetera hate gays. Now obviously there are people that hate people who are gay, just because they are gay and to me I believe that to be discrimination.

Being religious for the first twenty years of my life I can see how the beliefs of those against gay marriage feel threatened. However, beliefs are very hard to change. I'm not religious and really don't like it when I tell people that and they say "oh so you don't believe in God?" Because it's simply not true. I believe in a higher power, but if I do find out one day there isn't a God, I wouldn't really change my beliefs. Arguments and heated discussions between Atheists and Theists rarely work because of such discrepancy on beliefs. A lot of Theists argue proof as Bible, because that's what they know and believe, while a lot of Atheists don't believe in the Bible.

For me it all comes to down to interpretation. Those that do believe in the Bible or parts of the Bible even disagree and even religion can't decided on one interpretation otherwise there wouldn't be different religions or sects of religions.

To those that feel allowing marriage will open up a can of worms in terms of loving other people and things. I disagree. Allowing or not allowing gay marriage will not stop two men who are gay and attracted to one another from loving one another. All they want is the same marriage recognition, etc. that a man and women receive to me is not right.

I'm not exactly sure how the word gay came to mean homosexuality. I mean read articles and stuff, but it's interesting how words evolve and mean something else.

[thespleenenator]

I realized in my previous post I used lifestyle in two instances and I know that's not how people who are gay see themselves and I personally think being gay isn't a choice because if I tried to be gay it wouldn't work, because I'm not attracted to men. I just was trying to see from the side of those who disagree with what they believe is a lifestyle.

All I can go on is what I believe, and I mentioned I had a lot to say on gay rights, so I guess I'll say some of it now and save the rest for my blog. While this probably doesn't have to be said a reminder to please be open about one's beliefs regardless of your personal feeling towards this issue.

I support gay rights and you should be able to love who you love. I'm not sure all people who disagree with being gay, or don't understand it, etcetera hate gays. Now obviously there are people that hate people who are gay, just because they are gay and to me I believe that to be discrimination.

Being religious for the first twenty years of my life I can see how the beliefs of those against gay marriage feel threatened. However, beliefs are very hard to change. I'm not religious and really don't like it when I tell people that and they say "oh so you don't believe in God?" Because it's simply not true. I believe in a higher power, but if I do find out one day there isn't a God, I wouldn't really change my beliefs. Arguments and heated discussions between Atheists and Theists rarely work because of such discrepancy on beliefs. A lot of Theists argue proof as Bible, because that's what they know and believe, while a lot of Atheists don't believe in the Bible.

For me it all comes to down to interpretation. Those that do believe in the Bible or parts of the Bible even disagree and even religion can't decided on one interpretation otherwise there wouldn't be different religions or sects of religions.

To those that feel allowing marriage will open up a can of worms in terms of loving other people and things. I disagree. Allowing or not allowing gay marriage will not stop two men who are gay and attracted to one another from loving one another. All they want is the same marriage recognition, etc. that a man and women receive to me is not right.

I'm not exactly sure how the word gay came to mean homosexuality. I mean read articles and stuff, but it's interesting how words evolve and mean something else.

A bit off topic, but you say that you're not religious, but believe in God. Would you consider yourself a deist then?

[IceCap]

No one's considered themselves a deist since Kentucky joined the Union

[Gothamite]

Because if you want to look at something fairly it's important to consider both sides - in this case, the system and those who would abuse it. For example, gay marriage. I believe gay people should have the same legal rights as any married couple. At the same time, I understand the objections of those who believe (and have a right to believe) that marriage is defined as between a man and woman. So in my opinion civil unions would be a reasonable compromise.

Others will trot out the "separate but equal" argument et al and I respect their opinions even though I disagree. What I don't respect are people to whom compromise is a dirty word. They want everything their way and are convinced they alone are the righteous among us.

Sometimes "compromise" is a dirty word.

The 3/5ths compromise was reprehensible. "Separate but equal" was a compromise, and that was reprehensible (good of you to note its place in this discussion).

Sky, I really value your perspective, so please consider this question: why do we need a compromise on gay marriage, again? Besides that some people want the right to discriminate? No church is ever going to be forced to marry gay people if it doesn't want to (unless you can find a single instance of the Catholic Church being forced to marry a divorcee). So churches that wish to should be allowed to, churches that don't won't be forced to, and America (to quote the only person who testified under oath in support of Prop 8), will be a little more American.

[riki]

Yeah, my interpretation of the Book of Job is that God doesn't even believe in himself ("good luck finding any meaning in a giraffe, fellas" - God).

Anyone's interpretation of any text is going to be argued. "The political climate/political motivations of the author/s shouldn't matter," an author's intent (impossible to know), and "the enjambment!" are tools often used to describe some more "legally binding" texts than THE BIBLE, but Sean Hannity doesn't give a about "meaninglessness" when confronted with the opportunity to " suck up to-, " "appease" (he has some dad issues), or out of guilt, "praise," a transcendental signifier.

How does Jason Collins handle the meaninglessness of life?

Maybe I can't stand Christians because they are so ridiculously easy to fully understand.

Sean Hannity, though.

[Gothamite]

Maybe I can't stand Christians because they are so ridiculously easy to fully understand.

Careful: there are Christians who are our strongest allies in this fight. Not every Christian is a Christianist, and conflating the large and diverse group into a cliche is not only insulting but counter-productive.

[IceCap]

Yeah, my interpretation of the Book of Job is that God doesn't even believe in himself ("good luck finding any meaning in a giraffe, fellas" - God).

I take that to mean that G-d gets drunk sometimes and that's how the duck billed platypus gets made

[charger77]

No one's considered themselves a deist since Kentucky joined the Union

Speak for yourself.

[riki]

Careful: there are Christians who are our strongest allies in this fight. Not every Christian is a Christianist, and conflating the large and diverse group into a cliche is not only insulting but counter-productive.

I think Christians lack the ability to find themselves in any "sinful" situation (it's a lack of empathy). You could interpret my statement also as "I see myself in the Christian/ist ideology." So I gave myself a trophy (because I saw the similarities with them and :censored:ed em over in one sentence):

I take that to mean that G-d gets drunk sometimes and that's how the duck billed platypus gets made

I've heard an interpretation of "Job" that God gave Job all these maladies and disavowed his creations for no reason because he wanted Job (and Sean Hannity) to know that even God didn't understand what he was doing. Just another interpretation for you all to use in every aspect of your daily lives.

[ninersdd]

How the hell did Sean Hannity come into this discussion?

[IceCap]

I have no bloody idea.

[floydnimrod]

I'm a Catholic, and I fully support LGBT rights. It might be the only single issue I truly care about. I got into a Twitter argument/discussion last night with a good friend and coworker about this issue last night. I'm not saying I know all the answers and am 100% correct in my beliefs but there was definitely some interesting reasoning on his part (those same reasoning were readily dismissed when I applied them to my feelings on the matter).

This said friend uses "gay" and "fag" and other derogatory terms to use for people he doesn't like (not exactly a quality I admire in him). What I don't understand is this: If he thinks homosexuality is such a big sin (he does), why does he use there terms so frequently and passively. Why would he call someone a "fag" who wasn't gay, but not call someone who didn't murder a murderer (also widely regarded as a sin)?

I have no problem with Chris Broussard expressing his religious views on television. But was ESPN right to even bring the subject up? (which is a question of mine: When did Christianity get brought up in the conversation on ESPN? Is Collins a Christian? Did Broussard assume that every person follows the law and order of his religion?) It's the way Broussard said what he said that irks me. Saying being gay is an open rebellion to God is pretty strong. He brought up premarital sex as being a sin as well. Why aren't we criticizing Lebron James for having two illegitimate children, or any number of professional athletes? Broussard didn't go as far as to say what sex was intended for: to reproduce. Has Chris Broussard had sexual intercourse more times than the number of children he has? Is that not leading a Christian lifestyle? Is that not leading an open rebellion to Jesus Christ?

Like I said before, I'm a Catholic but I understand that The Bible, like any other piece of literature, can be interpreted in different ways, and can also be outdated over the course of thousands of years. What disappoints me about other Catholics / Christians is that they are so ready to dismiss things that can reflect negatively on themselves, but anything they can use to fire back at someone, they have so quickly available. A lot of the Christians that I know were so ready to criticize the Bible "doomsday" believers, but don't seem to understand they're taking words and passages from the same book. What happened to the parts of The Bible that talked about loving people?

[IceCap]

No one's considered themselves a deist since Kentucky joined the Union

Speak for yourself.

Hehe. I stand corrected.

[riki]

Like I said before, I'm a Catholic but I understand that The Bible, like any other piece of literature, can be interpreted in different ways, and can also be outdated over the course of thousands of years.

Every text can be interpreted in different ways. I get upset with the ease at which Christians come to belief when "interpretation" is so easy and requires such huge responsibility and honesty.

I went to college and studied textual interpretation. I'm out of college and have applied for forebearance on my loans because I have no job. All day I ride around in my car listening to "Christians" on conservative talk radio shame poor people and exhibit zero responsibility in their interpretations of the modern world. Whether they are entitled to an opinion is a huge debate for me, because their speech exhibits such a lack of understanding and responsibility.

"Interpretation" is a reason to live. It's mine. I make sure to choose whom to support (

) and support them publicly because words DO have meaning when an authority is the one who gets to write the rules and interpret them. Whether Christians know that they have historically held this position of authority or not should make all previous attempts of Christians in their efforts of denying public opinion and common decency is and will always be grounds for my total dismissal of their holy opinions.

For example, a teacher (an "authority") saying "Guns don't kill people" should go to jail. That's my opinion.

[ninersdd]

Uh, if you don't like Christian conservatives, then you don't have to listen to them. No matter how much you disagree with some people, every body is entitled to an opinion.

[DaRadniz29]

I realized in my previous post I used lifestyle in two instances and I know that's not how people who are gay see themselves and I personally think being gay isn't a choice because if I tried to be gay it wouldn't work, because I'm not attracted to men. I just was trying to see from the side of those who disagree with what they believe is a lifestyle.

All I can go on is what I believe, and I mentioned I had a lot to say on gay rights, so I guess I'll say some of it now and save the rest for my blog. While this probably doesn't have to be said a reminder to please be open about one's beliefs regardless of your personal feeling towards this issue.

I support gay rights and you should be able to love who you love. I'm not sure all people who disagree with being gay, or don't understand it, etcetera hate gays. Now obviously there are people that hate people who are gay, just because they are gay and to me I believe that to be discrimination.

Being religious for the first twenty years of my life I can see how the beliefs of those against gay marriage feel threatened. However, beliefs are very hard to change. I'm not religious and really don't like it when I tell people that and they say "oh so you don't believe in God?" Because it's simply not true. I believe in a higher power, but if I do find out one day there isn't a God, I wouldn't really change my beliefs. Arguments and heated discussions between Atheists and Theists rarely work because of such discrepancy on beliefs. A lot of Theists argue proof as Bible, because that's what they know and believe, while a lot of Atheists don't believe in the Bible.

For me it all comes to down to interpretation. Those that do believe in the Bible or parts of the Bible even disagree and even religion can't decided on one interpretation otherwise there wouldn't be different religions or sects of religions.

To those that feel allowing marriage will open up a can of worms in terms of loving other people and things. I disagree. Allowing or not allowing gay marriage will not stop two men who are gay and attracted to one another from loving one another. All they want is the same marriage recognition, etc. that a man and women receive to me is not right.

I'm not exactly sure how the word gay came to mean homosexuality. I mean read articles and stuff, but it's interesting how words evolve and mean something else.

A bit off topic, but you say that you're not religious, but believe in God. Would you consider yourself a deist then?

No worries.Yeah actually, I've never really thought about what I would call myself. I actually just used God as it's seems the simplest and shortest response, than have me say "Well I believe in a higher power, being a God or another Deity. I grew up Catholic so some of those things I still reside with me and there are some things about the Catholicism that I liked, but there's obviously a lot that I disagree with.

I've had things in my life that I thought were God, but I can't be certain. I guess I believe in a God, but I also believe in the possibility and am open to the thought of more than one God/Deity. In addition, I currently believe there is no significant concrete proof that says God exists, or doesn't exists. I don't read the Bible nor do I live my life according to every word of it. I life live how I feel the God(s) would want me to live life, though I am by no means perfect. I don't feel you need to go to church to find or visit God or to show him support. I'm not sure I believe in hell or a hell.

I don't know if you watched the Stargate series and spinoffs, but on SG1 the ascension to a higher plain of existence aspect was one I really liked. I still don't know a whole lot about it and not sure I would agree with it all, but it was interesting to learn a little about it from the show and research I did. I forget where they got it from, but yeah I'm not sure what if any category I would fall under. While I'm not religious I do like learning about other religions and feel I have become more open because of it.

[riki]

No matter how much you disagree with some people, every body is entitled to an opinion.

It's that easy?

[ninersdd]

No matter how much you disagree with some people, every body is entitled to an opinion.

It's that easy?

Well, I don't agree with Obama and other liberals a lot of the time, but I respect their right to express their opinions/views.

[Kevin W.]

No matter how much you disagree with some people, every body is entitled to an opinion.

It's that easy?

Yes, it's a really simple concept. Even those psychopaths from the Westboro Baptist Church are entitled to the ability to spew their venom.