mr.nascar13

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Well, at least they started signing players. It remains to be seen what kind of team names they have. If they go for "modern stupid" like the Hitmen and "Rage," and colors like the Orlando hander used to wear, it will be a joke. If they stay at 8 next year it would be a big mistake too. I am not saying that the league should ruin itself like the USFL did with 6 expansion teams the second year, but adding 2 teams like New York and Chicago or t. Louis, or Columbus would be a big step. As for New York, since Red Bull Stadium is a no go, and that abomination called NYCFC does't have a stadium in the works, I wonder if any part of the Arthur Ashe Tennis Center can be converted to a football field. 

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On 8/7/2018 at 10:09 AM, NYC Cosmos said:

Well, at least they started signing players. It remains to be seen what kind of team names they have. If they go for "modern stupid" like the Hitmen and "Rage," and colors like the Orlando hander used to wear, it will be a joke. If they stay at 8 next year it would be a big mistake too. I am not saying that the league should ruin itself like the USFL did with 6 expansion teams the second year, but adding 2 teams like New York and Chicago or t. Louis, or Columbus would be a big step. As for New York, since Red Bull Stadium is a no go, and that abomination called NYCFC does't have a stadium in the works, I wonder if any part of the Arthur Ashe Tennis Center can be converted to a football field. 

 

Part of me actually hopes they go really traditional, with uniforms that look like they are out of the 80's (sleeve and pant stripes, not color blocks or weird swooshes) and names like Tigers, Sharks and Mustangs.  Really go retro/nostalgic.

 

And I agree that expansion will be needed.  I would love to see them do this:

 

2019:  8 teams in East/West configuration

2020:  10 teams in East/West configuration  (Add St. Louis and San Jose)

2021: No expansion, consolodate

2022: 12 teams in East/Central/West configuration:   

           East--Orlando, Atlanta, Carolina, Birmingham

           Central--Memphis, St. Louis, New Orleans, San Antonio

           West--Phoenix, Salt Lake, San Diego, San Jose

2025: Add 4 more teams, finally moving a little to the north and go to a final stasis of 16 teams in 4 divisions

            East--Atlanta, Carolina, Columbus, Hartford

            Central--Indianapolis, Memphis, New Orleans, St. Louis

            Southwest--Albuquerque, Austin, Salt Lake, San Antonio

            West--Phoenix, San Diego, San Jose, Seattle

 

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On 8/7/2018 at 4:09 PM, NYC Cosmos said:

As for New York, since Red Bull Stadium is a no go, and that abomination called NYCFC does't have a stadium in the works, I wonder if any part of the Arthur Ashe Tennis Center can be converted to a football field. 

 

Hey, you were the ones who turned down MLS. NYCFC literally only exists because the Cosmos made that choice. Can’t blame us for recognizing that the city needs top-flight football and stepping in to fill the void. 😛 

 

I doubt Arthur Ashe is an option.  Is it big enough?  Even if it is, I’m not sure they’re interested in subjecting their facility to American football.  I think the Columbia or Fordham stadiums are much more realistic possibilities.

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On 8/7/2018 at 11:09 AM, NYC Cosmos said:

Well, at least they started signing players. It remains to be seen what kind of team names they have. If they go for "modern stupid" like the Hitmen and "Rage," and colors like the Orlando hander used to wear, it will be a joke. If they stay at 8 next year it would be a big mistake too. I am not saying that the league should ruin itself like the USFL did with 6 expansion teams the second year, but adding 2 teams like New York and Chicago or t. Louis, or Columbus would be a big step. As for New York, since Red Bull Stadium is a no go, and that abomination called NYCFC does't have a stadium in the works, I wonder if any part of the Arthur Ashe Tennis Center can be converted to a football field. 

 

5 hours ago, Gothamite said:

 

Hey, you were the ones who turned down MLS. NYCFC literally only exists because the Cosmos made that choice. Can’t blame us for recognizing that the city needs top-flight football and stepping in to fill the void. 😛 

 

I doubt Arthur Ashe is an option.  Is it big enough?  Even if it is, I’m not sure they’re interested in subjecting their facility to American football.  I think the Columbia or Fordham stadiums are much more realistic possibilities.

Arthur Ashe is made for tennis, a basketball court would be about all they could squeeze in let alone a football field.

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Wrestling would be fun at Arthur Ashe. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Gothamite said:

That was my sense as well - it would never fit. 

I think (s)he made a potrmantue of Arthur Ashe Stadium and Billie Jean King USTA National Tennis Center, on which the stadium is located.

 

While Flushing Meadows Park is big, 900 acres, and there's enough greenspace to build something, there's no feasible way for anything to be constructed within a reasonable timetable.

 

Meanwhile, AAF is signing players. Only Trent Richardson and kicker Nick Novak are the names of note.

Edited by dfwabel

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9 hours ago, dfwabel said:

While Flushing Meadows Park is big, 900 acres, and there's enough greenspace to build something, there's no feasible way for anything to be constructed within a reasonable timetable.

 

Never going to happen. Ever. The city will not allow a single square meter of greenspace to be developed. 

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I still don't get why American Football is off limits at Red Bull Arena in Harrison, NJ (near Newark)? Is there, like, some unwritten rule on which sports (other than soccer, of course) can be played at that venue?

 

But anyway, there's always the Rutgers Stadium should the AAF enter the New York-New Jersey market

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3 hours ago, JH42XCC said:

I still don't get why American Football is off limits at Red Bull Arena in Harrison, NJ (near Newark)? Is there, like, some unwritten rule on which sports (other than soccer, of course) can be played at that venue?

RedBull owns the venue and can do what they want...

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4 hours ago, JH42XCC said:

I still don't get why American Football is off limits at Red Bull Arena in Harrison, NJ (near Newark)? Is there, like, some unwritten rule on which sports (other than soccer, of course) can be played at that venue?

 

But anyway, there's always the Rutgers Stadium should the AAF enter the New York-New Jersey market

Most MLS teams with grass fields try to limit the amount of gridiron is played there because of how much damage it does to the turf. Columbus Crew used to host the Ohio All Star game, but when it was expanded to two games to split up the six different classes it was moved to Massillon which is turf. Portland is turf so the only they have with Portland State games is repainting the fields. Sporting KC host the Division II Championship but I'm not sure what other football games they host. Canton, Ohio will be hosting the 2021 game though so they may take it permanently if things go well. Frisco hosts the FCS Championship but there may be a case of the game rotating in the future as well, though I'm not certain of that.

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53 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

Most MLS teams with grass fields try to limit the amount of gridiron is played there because of how much damage it does to the turf. Columbus Crew used to host the Ohio All Star game, but when it was expanded to two games to split up the six different classes it was moved to Massillon which is turf. Portland is turf so the only they have with Portland State games is repainting the fields. Sporting KC host the Division II Championship but I'm not sure what other football games they host. Canton, Ohio will be hosting the 2021 game though so they may take it permanently if things go well. Frisco hosts the FCS Championship but there may be a case of the game rotating in the future as well, though I'm not certain of that.

Toyota Stadium in Frisco has the FCS title game through 2020. Also, the Frisco ISD hosts high school football games there since part of the $40M renovation and building of the US Soccer HoF was to build new locker rooms which could be expandable to accommodate up to 100.

https://www.fcdallas.com/stadium/events

The school district can use it basically whenever it's not booked by the team ( at least per the original 2005 agreement).

http://www.friscoisd.org/ly/news/pizzahutparkopens_05aug.htm

 

Plus, the Dynamo have Texas Southern games on that Field plus UIL playoff games.

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4 hours ago, NYC Cosmos said:

Red Bull Arena: It all depends if Red Bull wants five extra dates. At least it is easy to get to.

 

From Northern Jersey, maybe.  It’s two-and-a-half hours from southern Brooklyn.  Although maybe a little less with the crowds we’d expect for minor league football, less waiting time to get on the PATH. 

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Gothamite: It's relatively easy to get anywhere in the City. It isn't 2 ½ hours from southern Brooklyn. Suppose you are at 95th/Bay Ridge St on the R. Then you might have an argument. R to 36th/switch for express. If the D, get off W 4th St, take the PATH. If the N, go to 34th St. Herald Square, or R to WTC. I don't see what the big deal is. I live in Bushwick, and it would be hell for me to go to Coney Island. And that is interboro! The M to the F at Essex. That is a long, long ride. At least the B'way and 6th Ave lines have frequency. The M does not.

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New York City is big; therefore every place in it is going to be far from someone.

If a stadium is located right off a subway stop, then it is accessible.  And the PATH certainly counts as an extension of the subway; so Red Bull Arena is just as accessible as Yankee Stadium, Citi Field, or the Brooklyn Cyclones' ballpark in Coney Island that the Cosmos used.

Speaking of Coney Island, maybe an AAF team could play there.  That park has already hosted American football, when the Brooklyn Bolts of the FXFL played there.

 

 

Related image  Image result for brooklyn bolts coney island
 

 

Anyway, if the AAF were willing to pay enough in rent, perhaps the Red Bulls would allow them to use their stadium.  But there is presumably a ceiling past which paying rent does not make sense for a team that could realistically draw only a couple of thousand fans at most.  The prestige of having a New York team goes only so far.  Still, it's only a handful of dates; so maybe the Red Bulls would go for it.

 

 

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An AAF (or XFL) team won't be treated seriously in the NYC market unless they play at the Meadowlands, Shea or Yankee Stadia (sorry, they're not paying me to mention their corporate names, so I don't use them).  Red Bull's stadium (whatever it's called) would be a possibility if they couldn't land the others, but that FXFL field layout is literally the worst thing I could imagine having to deal with logistically and from a ticket sales perspective - There's not a seat within 100 feet of the 50 yard line any way you look at that layout.  Simply awful.

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2 hours ago, NYC Cosmos said:

Gothamite: It's relatively easy to get anywhere in the City. It isn't 2 ½ hours from southern Brooklyn. 

 

It is when you have to change trains at Journal Square for some stupid reason.  And when it takes an hour to get from your seat at RBA to the PATH platform, which it does whenever New York City comes to play in Harrison.

 

It shouldn't take 2 ½ hours to Brooklyn after a game.  But it does.

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2 hours ago, Mac the Knife said:

An AAF (or XFL) team won't be treated seriously in the NYC market unless they play at the Meadowlands, Shea or Yankee Stadia (sorry, they're not paying me to mention their corporate names, so I don't use them).

 

An AAF or XFL team won't be treated seriously in the NYC market, period.  It's minor-league ball at best.  Brooklyn and Staten Island will support minor-league baseball because it's cheap and local and this city runs on baseball.  But I don't see any reason to believe the city will support minor-league football to any significant degree.

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2 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

If a stadium is located right off a subway stop, then it is accessible.  And the PATH certainly counts as an extension of the subway;

 

:blink:

 

That's highly debatable, unless by "an extension" you mean "not really the same thing as".  There's certainly no real equivalence between the subway and the commuter rail lines like LIRR, Metro-North and the PATH.  Being on one of those isn't at all like proximity to a subway station.

 

 

2 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

Speaking of Coney Island, maybe an AAF team could play there.  That park has already hosted American football, when the Brooklyn Bolts of the FXFL played there.

  

 

Related image  Image result for brooklyn bolts coney island

 

That's certainly possible.  But I heard that the stadium rent was pretty high for Cosmos games, something like $75,000 per game.  That's steep when you're only drawing a couple thousand fans.

 

 

2 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

Anyway, if the AAF were willing to pay enough in rent, perhaps the Red Bulls would allow them to use their stadium.  But there is presumably a ceiling past which paying rent does not make sense for a team that could realistically draw only a couple of thousand fans at most.  The prestige of having a New York team goes only so far.  Still, it's only a handful of dates; so maybe the Red Bulls would go for it.

 

That number well be somewhere a gazillion dollars.  Unlike a lot of other teams, the Red Bulls don't just have to worry about their own expenses.  They can lose money on same areas of operations.  They're part of a larger network, meaning that the offer would have to be high enough to convince Red Bull GmbH headquarters in Austria to let their precious facility be used for something other than the reason they own it.  

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