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Everything posted by SFGiants58

  1. Also, stripped of excessive outlines and with a white body, the hidden “c” is clearer. This is what the Canucks should have rolled out in 2007 as a crest, with the Millionaires’ “V”/the Johnny V on the shoulders.
  2. DENVER ATHLETICS, REDUX - Miter Madness Aside from adding the new elephant to the old design, I've improved the mitering on the "A's" insignia to be less pointy. This has improved the '90s alternate a bit. Home and Road I went with one-color lettering on the green jersey, to avoid "bleeding." The new miters improved the '90s design a bit. The jacket now uses the one-color "A's" insignia. I'd also like to finally provide a visual representation of Marvin Davis, the man who planned to buy the A's to move them to Denver and remained an MLB-to-Denver guy for much of the 1980s. Here he is, along with Carlos Bremer (a leader behind the Expos-to-Monterrey push), former Las Vegas mayor/mob attorney Oscar B. Goodman (Expos/Marlins-to-Las Vegas), Gregg Lukenbill (the guy behind ARCO Park in Sacramento), Don Beaver (the guy behind the Carolina Twins idea and the Charlotte Knights' current stadium), Edward Bennett Williams (who attempted to move the Orioles to DC), and William "Bill" Collins III (the man behind the Virginia Fury) This is peak silver-haired, middle-aged, white gentleman material. I figured I should catch up on getting the faces of the history out there. Speaking of the history, we'll be back with the Expos' attempted moves, this time with a sojourn to the Northwest!
  3. Thanks! I decided that instead of adding a tail to the "Chicago" script, why not adjust the "Athletics" script to match the "Chicago" one? Originals are here. That's definitely a unique touch among the other A's designs. Thank you. You got it! Thanks. Green/white is a fantastic color scheme, which brings me to: SEATTLE ATHLETICS, REDUX - Yellow or white, it's all pretty tight The vintage nature of the press pin elephant really hurt the original concept, IMHO. I upgraded the elephant logo to the new one, which goes far better with the Seattle skyline design. I also replaced the sharp Old English "S" with the one off of my Sacramento A's design (which isn't as hellish to miter). The Market Deco wordmark from my Rainiers uniforms also makes a return, as it's more distinctly "Seattle" than the old one. Kelly/Yellow Kelly/White I've also done a kelly/white version of the cursive script and a kelly/yellow-gold take on the Market Deco wordmark. Stay tuned for some Denver upgrades!
  4. That's 2014 World Series Champion Dan Uggla to you! I get wanting to redesign for the move to Little Havana and embracing an Art Deco/MiMo style. However, they went about it in the worst way possible. The messy shadows, the number font that didn't match at all, and the "toothpaste marlin" all produced a lackluster set. Yeah, they could have gone away from the black base, but the wordmarks were still a mess. Said move to Marlins Park included the post-2012 fire sale, Stanton's albatross contract and subsequent trade, Ozzie Guillen alienating Cuban-Americans, the trades of MVP candidates like Yelich, and the team's best pitcher getting coked up and killing himself/several others in a boating accident. No real moments of contention, a white elephant stadium with gaudy decorations, and these previously-listed difficulties insured that there would be no love lost for the 2012-18 uniforms. The 2019 set just seems like trend-chasing, trying to capture that "Hotline Miami"/vaporwave/Miami Heat Vice alternate "A E S T H E T I C" without understanding what makes it work. The over-dependence on black, uncanny valley cursive scripts, and relative lack of "panache" on the team goes against that style. It's less messy than the faux-MiMo of 2012-18, but it doesn't capture those few good moments in the team's history. I suggest trying to merge a bit of the 1993-02 style with some "Miami" influences. A real cursive script on the home uniform that says "Marlins" (since the Miami identity really isn't working for them), along with an Art Deco/MiMo-styled font for lettering in teal/black/silver would be a winner. Just clean up some of the 1993-02 conventions (e.g., teal-billed black caps, fewer outlines on the wordmarks/lettering, and teal numbers/home alternates) and you're good.
  5. There are problems I have with both the Rockies and Royals' branding, but I really appreciate how they started with one look when they were founded and stuck with it. There have been adaptations and trend-chasings (powder blue road uniforms and BFBS for the Royals, along with road pinstripes and those vests for the Rockies), but both teams look largely the same through the years. It's a kind of consistency that the Marlins and Padres really should strive to achieve, go back the original and clean it up to fit with current design sensibilities (e.g., no all-yellow or all-brown uniforms and maybe fewer outlines on the wordmarks/lettering). @raysox has come up with a formula to describe this sort of trajectory. Per his thread, While I disagree with some of his assessments (the Rockies are a Phase 1 team still), he's right to note that the Marlins are firmly in Phase 3. They tried to "fix" the sins of Loria's designs, all the while making something just as messy (albeit in different ways). Like many Phase 3 designs, it has potential while being poorly-realized on the uniform.
  6. If it isn't, it's pretty darn close. Not exact, but probably the same family. I take it from both articles that this dated lettering font is going away. I did a 1950s version of that. If blue/yellow-gold wasn't the basic color scheme, brown/yellow would work pretty well.
  7. I’m hoping that it’s an entirely new lettering font. Petcopark.ttf aged poorly.
  8. @B-Rich made a start: You could tweak it further by rounding off the long stroke of the “b” (to make the vertical lines clearer/match the “e”), but I’m not sure how far that’ll go. The negative space is less misleading, that’s for sure. I would also recommend using the “W-ball” of the Winnipeg Whips as the base of a new design. It’s a tad Pepsi-ish, but it can be refined. All it really needs is a city initial. Like most Original 16 teams, the nickname can follow the classy letter form.
  9. You’re missing out on an over-stylized, super-inaccurate adaptation of whackadoodle Frank Miller’s comic adaptation of a movie about the Battle of Thermopylae! There’s an almost ridiculous amount of homoeroticism as well.
  10. By that logic, I’m the eyepatch dude from 300. I’m on one side, but I am left to observe and elaborate on my damnations, however nonsensically.
  11. That’s all true, but I’m curious about your take on the claims that you’re arguing in bad faith. It helps to shore things up.
  12. There’s a white shape that looks vaguely like a lowercase l and many other posters have backed him up. I fail to see the problem. It’s hardly bad faith. There’s a shape that looks like a lowercase “l” in the design. I don’t see any serious degradation. My Wahoo comparison (I should have used a less controversial design, I admit - the Canucks’ skate or the Sonics’ skyline logo would be more appropriate) was far more egregious than anything @Gothamite has said. Look, I get that you like it and feel compelled to defend it, but there are some fights that just aren’t worth it. Gothamite hasn’t messed up at all, but rather you got frustrated with him using the term “elb” repeatedly (which, let’s face it, is kind of what the logo looks like if we’re using the formalist - read: authorial intent is irrelevant - perspective). Let it go.
  13. ...and reddit drama. This is normal on that platform, at least for the sports ones.
  14. I think admiral answered your question there. My speculation is limited to the teams themselves, not the lasting results of teams moving. It'll be that, along with a name that was actually considered for the Nationals. Thanks! Thanks. I can see the attachment to the Royals in blue (even though I've maintained they should have been purple/white or purple/yellow from day one). I even mocked up my ideal blue design. I agree with your idea that metallic gold and powder blue shouldn't share a design. Thanks for the sources! I had heard a bit about the funding snag when researching the New Jersey, Connecticut, and Las Vegas relocation attempts. Also, that stadium plan sounds absolutely bonkers. Seriously, read this: That's some deep military fetishism! San Diego wishes they were that shameless. Needless to say, I'll probably try to do a camo alternate. Anyway, let's get to Louisville/Chicago! The Louisville Athletics have received the elephant upgrade. Logo Sheet Uniforms Dugout Jackets The Chicago Athletics now use the cleaned-up elephant and features a Chicago flag star on the ball. Uniforms Dugout Jacket I will soon update the original posts to reflect these changes. Up next, it's Seattle and Denver!
  15. A Chris Chelios Red Wings jersey might as well be a Dr. Cox jersey.
  16. I wouldn’t say he’s done anything illegal yet, he’s not asking for lewd photos or going full-on rapist. However, he’s had a behavioral pattern of getting a bit close to teen girls on social media (specifically actress Millie Bobby Brown) and there’s this: He’s no R. Kelly just yet, but it’s not a bad idea to keep an eye on it. But like @dfwabel said, E40 has probably been a bigger social detriment than any of Drake’s creeping. I’m a Warriors fan, but I’m not deluded about the quality of the celebrity fans or the team’s ability to game the salary cap and the CBA.
  17. You could always get Draymond to fight him in a nightclub. If Draymond is going to be the modern Anthony Mason, he needs to know his way around nightclub fights. Just stay away from the whole statutory rape stuff that Mason did (and was largely forgotten when he died). Creeping on teenage girls, which Drake has done, isn’t cool. Then again, I’m sure there are plenty of creeps who like the Warriors.
  18. You know, I wouldn't mind the Warriors passing the torch to a new team. I'm more than satiated with what they have and I'd be thrilled to see a new team win the title.
  19. Thanks! Well, that's an option. I've been thinking about a few light blue inserts for a Portland Athletics teams, to go along with Forest Green/Athletic Gold. I'm definitely using that color scheme for when the Expos/Marlins' Portland relocation appears in a few posts. I have the feeling that you'll like it. Thanks! I've even mocked up a 1983-91 style set, with cues from the 1982-84 A's home alternate and the Royals' 1983-91 uniforms. It's a bit "Brewers south," but I still like it. Thanks! As of right now, here's what's left: Portland, Virginia Fury re-do (with the horse), Norfolk, and an alternate Washington name Expos (a repost of my Project 32 designs, an attempt at an "abstract" style - as suggested by @NicDB, and the Royaux) Marlins attempts to move to San Antonio, Oklahoma City, and Charlotte San Jose and Portland Athletics A grand finale of two designs for the Pilots updates sprinkled throughout Let's finish off the KC updates! KANSAS CITY MONARCH, M-phasize a better letter After updating the Milwaukee Braves to have a less awkward "M" in their cursive wordmark, I performed the same tweak to the Monarchs (my ideal Kansas City concept)! Logo Sheet Home and Road Alternates The other set of alternates and jackets are the same. Now, here's a compilation of all of the Kansas City squads! Up next, the Louisville, Seattle, Chicago, and Denver A's will get some tweaking. After that, Youppi's Lament will return!
  20. I’d settle for a 1980s design with the full stripes and the white facemask. Wear that outfit against the Bears in all-white (but with navy socks), and you’d have a fantastic pairing.
  21. Thanks! I too like the kelly/yellow for both Oakland and Los Angeles, as well as kelly/white for Seattle. It fits with those places pretty well (compared to Portland and Sacramento). The interlocking LA is a personal favorite design of mine, since it incorporates both the city and team initials while being distinct from the PCL Angels/Dodgers' "LA." Sweet! It's fascinating to see how relocation affected so many of us baseball fans. Heck, it's done that for me. 1. I'm a fan of a relocated team. Had the Giants stayed in New York or gone to Minnesota instead, I doubt I would ever have had that bond with them. 2. Had the A's moved to Louisville, my dad might have grown up a fan. I could have carried a Louisville Athletics fandom with me! 3. The Giants' potential moves to Toronto, Tampa Bay, and maybe San José might have kept me from being a fan. My baseball fandom would be very different had it been for a few relocations happening or not happening. Thanks. The red was definitely a fun experiment and I wouldn't mind revisiting it at some point. However, I still like the kelly/yellow a bit more. Thanks! I doubt it. Anyway, let's hop on over to Kansas City! KANSAS CITY ATHLETICS, REDUX - Housekeeping the Heraldry The Kansas City Athletics (whose story I wrote about here - TL;DR: it had potential, but poor ownership from Arnold "Yankee Toady" Johnson and Charlie O. "Horses--t Town" Finley screwed it up - Ewing Kauffman would probably have salvaged the club in KC) needed some tweaks. I upgraded the heraldry designs to match the Philadelphia redux, while adjusting the interlocking "KC" to be less messy. Logo Sheet Home and Road Alternates #1 Alternates #2 Jackets I've updated the original post to reflect these changes. Stay tuned for additional tweaks!
  22. I never said it was the majority opinion, just that you could "make that argument." I also disagree with you when you argue "exceedingly defined" as being a bad thing, since clarity is a desirable quality. If cultural qualities weren't an issue, a cleaned-up Wahoo with a better perspective and realistic skin tone would be fine (e.g., Blackhawks). Sure, abstract is fine. It's just that the Expos' logo has fundamental flaws and is an example of how not to execute an abstract design. Look at the Ball-in-Golve or these designs: The Stick-in-Rink may be a bad example, but at least it doesn't accidentally produce letters the original designer didn't intend. Heck, the local CFL has done it better: The M-blob, as @Gothamite, @B-Rich, and others have said, simply isn't a good design. It's the Expos, sure, but that doesn't mean you can't re-define the team. The Winnipeg Jets demonstrated that it was possible, as have the Washington Nationals, the Ottawa Senators, the MK II Washington Senators, and the Charlotte Hornets. A historical name shouldn't bind a team to the old imagery. Then again, to each their own. My opinion is not fact, but merely an opinion informed by observations and personal preferences. If you have good reasons to like it, then keep on liking it. It's ultimately aesthetics and personal connections.
  23. What's so hard to understand about my: "The logic used to defend the M-blob also applies to Wahoo. Both designs were outdated and flawed compared to illustrations and insignias from their respective schools of design. You can argue that both are 'iconic' and that the 'good outweighs the bad,' but that doesn't change the poor quality of the designs." argument? Sure, Wahoo has the added element of insensitivity (which is why the team was forced to disposed of it), but one can make the argument that it's aesthetics was also a good reason to drop it. Besides, fanbase embrace is immaterial to the argument I was trying to make.
  24. It's a baseball team logo, so I'd argue that it's applicable. Culturally unacceptable, yes. But I'd also argue that its aesthetic qualities left it in the dust. The linework and detailing is far less appealing and consistent when compared to modern designs. Look at compared to what the Vikings do (since 2013, at least): Note the consistent line weights, clean detailing, and proper perspective. Wahoo has none of those elements. Now look at more modern "cartoon"/graphical designs. They generally adhere to consistent line weights, well-defined detailing, and easily-re-sizable forms. Wahoo doesn't have that, which is why it is aesthetically inferior (like the M-blob). Nice of you to overlook how I disputed the "good outweighs the bad" and "iconic/know what it is" logic behind liking the M-blob. Like it or not, they're comparable and they're both terrible for aesthetic reasons (with Wahoo having an additional stink of MOD EDIT). No amount of "good times" or "iconic status" can outweigh a terrible design, especially when the "good times" weren't all that good. Like it or not, the "success" argument goes further with Wahoo than it ever would for the M-blob. I loathe Wahoo, but the same defenses for the M-blob apply to that outdated cartoon logo. Also, way to put all the blame on Loria when it can spread pretty far and wide (separatists, Olympic Stadium's construction, the Blue Jays claiming Southern Ontario and Ontario's growing population of former Quebecois, and a fairly sizable recession during the 1990s in Canada - one which was worse in Quebec than it was in Ontario, IIRC). I would never be a Loria apologist at all, but he gets too much credit for sabotaging the Expos. If anything, MLB sent him in to finish off the market. It's OK to let the Expos fade away into baseball history, like the St. Louis Browns, the Washington Senators MK I/AL Nationals, or the Seattle Pilots. Nobody can take away the fond memories of the fans or the great careers of their many hall-of-famers (who often went off to have more success on other teams). Just because there's a cultural clout attached to a design doesn't mean we can critique it and point out its numerous flaws. One can be both a formalist and a new historicist.