MLB Changes 2017

[kroywen]

7 hours ago, Dolphins Dynasty said:

Honestly, scrapping Chief Wahoo isn't going to fix their identity. Let's be real, their identity is a mess. Their home uniforms consist of Chief Wahoo obviously, and an awkwardly crooked script that's always bugged me. Their away uniforms are about as generic as they can get, and I don't care what anyone says about the blocked C; it's terrible. I've mentioned that I'd love to see them do something along the lines of what the Spokane Indians do. But if they aren't going to use even a small portion of Native American imagery in their look, then they might as well not even call themselves the Indians.

It's amazing to me how the Spokane Indians, a single-A franchise, absolutely nailed how to do Native American imagery tastefully, while looking great, while the Cleveland Indians have an offensive logo and an identity crisis. I can't get enough of Spokane's script wordmark, and their logo is one of the best roundels in all of baseball.

 

FWIW, I don't think the Indianapolis Indians' identity is well-designed or attractive looking at all, but I'll give them this - they also manage to be mostly unoffensive about incorporating Native imagery as well:

 

 

That said, the Cleveland Indians' current script is definitely inferior to this old Indianapolis script, except for that "I" that looks almost like a "J":

 

[FinsUp1214]

Agreed on the Spokane Indians, kroywen. I believe them to be the prime example of how to do Native American imagery and referencing right and respectfully. And Brandiose, if I remember correctly, even stated that respect was a top goal and priority in their rebrand and it certainly shows.

 

It even looks like something Cleveland could 100% pull off, too:

 

[Matito]

I love that Spokane has authentic Native American language on their alt too. Great touch.

[(probably)notabandwagonfan]

I'm not a fan of the name Indians to begin with. It's only because of Christopher Columbus's stupidity that we have the misnomer and no one really calls Native Americans "Indians" anymore.

[lahaye7]

17 hours ago, EvilChameleon said:

All for the Indians getting rid of Chief Wahoo entirely. Even if it means they don't change the boring block C logo too. Once people started dressing up in red face with headdresses and all that stuff and screaming in the faces of actual Native Americans protesting outside the ballpark, yeah, that was the final straw.

 

Bring on the Cleveland Spiders!

amen, Spiders or the Naps 

[SilverBullet1929]

On 10/22/2016 at 10:28 AM, andrewdon15 said:

Heres the new BP tops from the 2017 Majestic Catalog

Late response to this but a few things that pop in my head... The Red Sox continue to use regular navy for somethings and the darker midnight navy for other things. Why is this? And why does no one ever give them crap about this? Their caps and helmets are the midnight navy and the BP tops the navy alternate and the dugout jackets are regular navy and it always looks like a clash to me, like a mistake that no one has bothered to correct. And this above image about the 2017 bp tops clearly shows that the Tigers Indians Yankees and Braves have selected to use the night navy so why don't the Red Sox?

 

And I'm beating a dead horse but the White Sox and Brewers have no concept of what a throwback is. A throwback is or at least should be an occasionally worn retro design. It should be not be your primary, it should be worn more than your primaries, and it most definitely should not engulf your identity to the point where it takes precedent over your primaries. Plenty of teams use throwbacks on a consistent basis, Arizona, Seattle, Pittsburgh to name a couple. There is NO reason to extend your throwbacks to your batting practice and all star game merchandise. It confuses what your identity is. It's very obvious what the DBacks primary visual identity is even with their cluttered mess of an identity it's obvious what is their primary. The Brewers have no freakin clue what their primary is.

[hawk36]

12 hours ago, Ray Lankford said:

I actually think that the Mariners jersey is too subtle. From even a slight distance, you lose the teal and the details in the font. The Astros have a similar problem, though orange outlines pop a bit more.

 

The PadreS font (which might actually be a nod to the B&W PCL Padres jersey) may not be refined but it helps the Padres stand out a little bit.

Right but I wasn't referring to the teal, but rather the size of the M versus the rest of the letters. For this PadreS jersey two quick changes I'd make:

1. Go to a slightly less bold version of the wordmark

2. Remove the white outline, yellow will read very nicely and there are no outlines on the SD on the cap. Much cleaner.

[Gothamite]

6 hours ago, FinsUp1214 said:

Agreed on the Spokane Indians, kroywen. I believe them to be the prime example of how to do Native American imagery and referencing right and respectfully. And Brandiose, if I remember correctly, even stated that respect was a top goal and priority in their rebrand and it certainly shows.

 

It even looks like something Cleveland could 100% pull off, too:

 

Worth pointing out that the club worked with the Spokane Tribe, and four other local tribes, to create their logo in 2006.

 

Quote

 

"In the past, we had received compliments from the tribe for being respectful and not using offensive images," Spokane Indians president Andrew Billig said. "But now, as opposed to respect through exclusion, we can convey an even greater respect by honoring the Spokane tribe's heritage directly. This would not have moved forward without total support for the idea, not just from the Spokane tribe but from the four other tribes who reside in this area as well."

Plan B Branding, an "ideas company" that works primarily with Minor League teams, played a key role in developing the logo.

"The team wanted to change the logo regardless, and the tribe was very interested in having input in the process," Plan B's Jason Klein said. "So we drove up to the reservation and had a conversation with members of the tribe about colors, icons, symbols and values. It was our goal to create a logo that reflected the culture of the tribe as well as the 104-year history of the team."

The local tribe feels that the Indians' new logo has resulted in a "win-win situation."

"The Spokane tribal council believes the Spokane Indians baseball management team is taking a lead role in respecting the Tribe's native culture and people by collaborating in the design of their new logo," the Spokane tribal council wrote in a press release. "The Spokane Tribe and Culture Committee hope other Indian-named organizations across the country keep this ground-breaking concept in mind with their own neighboring Indian tribes."

 

 

That collaboration also resulted in a Salish-language version of their logo they unveiled at the same time.

 

 

Plus the club has Salish signage all over the ballpark.

 

 

This seems to be the ideal approach - respectful and collaborative. 

 

It's a little complicated in that there are no federally-recognized tribes in Ohio to which they can reach out.  But any team that wants to use First Nations imagery should really work to incorporate First Nation voices into the process.

[hawk36]

1 minute ago, Gothamite said:

 

Worth pointing out that the club worked with the Spokane Tribe to create it.

 

 

It's a little complicated in that there are no federally-recognized tribes in Ohio to which they can reach out.

Possible to work with the tribe of Louis Sockalexis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penobscot_Indian_Island_Reservation

That would be a nice tie in to their history.

[Gothamite]

That's a great idea.  

 

Give the Penobscot Nation some input into new marks, and give them a small percentage of the merchandise sales for anything using native imagery.

[hawk36]

Here is the tribe's seal. Not that they'd ask to use this but maybe use elements as inspiration?

 

[SilverBullet1929]

I love the idea. Let actual Native American tribes give their input into the Cleveland Indians team's logos and identity! And then if they're good enough let them fix the Padres too!

[Gothamite]

43 minutes ago, hawk36 said:

2. Remove the white outline, yellow will read very nicely and there are no outlines on the SD on the cap. Much cleaner.

 

Yeah, I'm not sure what the white outline is supposed to bring here.  It doesn't separate the two colors, and it doesn't refer to the cap or other prominent element.   It just clutters up the design.

[hawk36]

6 minutes ago, hawk36 said:

Here is the tribe's seal. Not that they'd ask to use this but maybe use elements as inspiration?

 

Actually didn't someone post this concept on here years ago (sorry don't know who to credit)? Loved it and noticed that the feather is similar to the angle of the tribe's seal.

[GriffinM6]

Has anyone ever thought of the name "Natives"? It seems cool and can allow room for a Native American tribe(s) to give input towards the identity.

[Ray Lankford]

1 hour ago, Gothamite said:

 

Yeah, I'm not sure what the white outline is supposed to bring here.  It doesn't separate the two colors, and it doesn't refer to the cap or other prominent element.   It just clutters up the design.

What's interesting is that you could say that of every alternate jersey that features yellow. They all unnecessarily include white. 

[hawk36]

7 minutes ago, Ray Lankford said:

What's interesting is that you could say that of every alternate jersey that features yellow. They all unnecessarily include white. 

I don't mind it if it's consistent. For instance the Saints don't need the outline but they have a consistent outline from the numeral to the helmet logo. On the other hand, the Rams aren't consistent. For me it should be one or the other.

 

[Ray Lankford]

6 minutes ago, hawk36 said:

I don't mind it if it's consistent. For instance the Saints don't need the outline but they have a consistent outline from the numeral to the helmet logo. On the other hand, the Rams aren't consistent. For me it should be one or the other.

 

It might be worse with Oakland and Pittsburgh because they came out with unnecessary alt hats to match.

[TheOldRoman]

On ‎10‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 10:50 AM, will61589 said:

 

The brown/yellow look is solid with pinstripes. I prefer the current padres font though...

 

 

No. I'm in favor of the Padres going brown and yellow, but you have to use brown *very* delicately to avoid it bein garish. Pinstripes are fine in black, navy, or royal blue. Brown pinstripes are taking it too far. Plus, with modern printing of thin stripes instead of thick, knit stripes like the Yankees use, they'd look black from any distance.

[will61589]

9 hours ago, TheOldRoman said:

 

No. I'm in favor of the Padres going brown and yellow, but you have to use brown *very* delicately to avoid it bein garish. Pinstripes are fine in black, navy, or royal blue. Brown pinstripes are taking it too far. Plus, with modern printing of thin stripes instead of thick, knit stripes like the Yankees use, they'd look black from any distance.

That's just not true, if you use a light enough shade of brown (like the current alt jersey shade of brown) it will not look black. Padres have already had a look similar...