Football and CTE

[Gothamite]

8 hours ago, Gold Pinstripes said:

Like I've said before, we can have the best of both worlds. Enhanced player safety, without eroding the foundation of the game. 

 

Nobody’s talking about eroding the foundation of the game.  Rule changes are a historical part of the foundation of the game.  

[Gothamite]

36 minutes ago, Gold Pinstripes said:

I didn't need to document anything since I don't live in an echo chamber,

 

Ahem. 

[The_Admiral]

3 hours ago, Gold Pinstripes said:

Football's "toxic culture" is a pure myth. For every bad player and coach, plenty more are doing the right things, or staying out of trouble.

 

What?! The good things don't make the bad things fictitious, you dumbass. If anything, instances of toxic football culture are of such enormity that it's hard to think positively about any of the good parts. Kids learned how to persevere, okay, but still, the brain damage, the child sex trafficking, the deaths in practice. 

[DnBronc]

4 hours ago, Gold Pinstripes said:

Football's "toxic culture" is a pure myth. For every bad player and coach, plenty more are doing the right things, or staying out of trouble. The inspirational stories just aren't being reported.

 

Penn State says hi. Montana says hi (a girl was raped by some football players several years ago, and the president of the university told her to not say anything). Texas youth football (I posted an example a few pages back. Maybe you didn't read it) says hi.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Just now, DnBronc said:

 

Penn State says hi. Montana says hi (a girl was raped by some football players several years ago, and the president of the university told her to not say anything). Texas youth football (I posted an example a few pages back. Maybe you didn't read it) says hi. 

 

I started to list out Steubenville and Baylor and others at one point and then I got depressed. Football is the worst.

[DnBronc]

1 minute ago, DG_Now said:

 

I started to list out Steubenville and Baylor and others at one point and then I got depressed. Football is the worst.

 

Yeah. There's not only those examples, but here's another one (the Washington Post link wants you to pay if you have clicked on their site too many times):

 

https://superfraud.blogspot.com/2016/05/another-case-for-complete-abolishing-of.html

 

Apparently, this was done by football players. One of them was a huge troublemaker who was moved from Texas (naturally) to Idaho so he could finish high school.

[The_Admiral]

I didn't know about it until the Why Your Team Sucks series brought it up, but apparently the Washington Redskins were literally prostituting their cheerleaders on a trip to Costa Rica. What the hell? How was this not major, bring-the-league-to-its-knees news?

[infrared41]

17 hours ago, Gold Pinstripes said:

Candidly, I seriously doubt you or anyone on this board can even approach the quality and quantity of my experiences in this matter. I've had the kind of insider access most can only wish for, 

 

Yeah, I've had plenty of "insider access" to football from the NFL all the way down to High School. That access made me realize that football is a sport that's best viewed from far away. The closer to it you get, the less you like it. My opinion is that football would need to significantly improve to reach "toxic culture." 

 

My problem is that as much as I want to turn my back on football, I can't bring myself to do it.

[oldschoolvikings]

On 8/19/2018 at 9:16 AM, Gold Pinstripes said:

My worldview is quite informed.

 

On 8/19/2018 at 12:05 PM, Gold Pinstripes said:

No, my evidence is as solid as a rock.

 

On 8/19/2018 at 12:30 PM, Gold Pinstripes said:

My objectivity is beyond question.

Candidly, I'd put the variety of my experiences, and insider access, up against anyone in the nation.

 

 

19 hours ago, Gold Pinstripes said:

Of course, and I've identified talent early on in young employees making the minimum wage, seeing the similar level of passion successful people have. My guidance played a role in their confidence and later success. I can always tell who is going to make it, and who is going to fall by the wayside in my business.

 

19 hours ago, Gold Pinstripes said:

 

I was poor, and still found a way to make it.

 

18 hours ago, Gold Pinstripes said:

 

Candidly, I seriously doubt you or anyone on this board can even approach the quality and quantity of my experiences in this matter. I've had the kind of insider access most can only wish for, which is why I find the generalizations so amusing in this matter.

 

 

Holy crap!  How has there been this much self-important blowhardery going on for days and I missed it!

 

Damn it, people!  When there's his kind of party happening here I want to know about it!

[officeglenn]

It's not that this is an issue that's not worth discussing. But, for at least the last six pages of this thread, there have been no new studies or articles regarding football and CTE posted, only circuitous arguments based on anecdotal evidence that are getting more and more ridiculous. Therefore, this thread is getting locked.

[IceCap]

I am tentatively re-opening this thread, as there seems to be a contingent of fans who wish to discuss the topic.

I will stress, however, that the thread will be locked again if it becomes a venue for one or two people to have the same circular arguments.

[goalieboy82]

 

10 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

same circular arguments.

 

[goalieboy82]

anyway, i always wonder what past sports players (long since dead) brains were like (say days of when the NFL played like this)

[Gothamite]

I suspect their brains may have been healthier. 

 

There was a time when being over 300 pounds earned you a nickname like “the Fridge.”  Now it’s barely worthy of mention. All that increased mass can’t be helping the CTE sub-concussive impact problem.

 

Players are so much bigger and faster than they were in the 1940s, and Newton’s Second Law of Motion is a harsh mistress. 

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

1 hour ago, goalieboy82 said:

anyway, i always wonder what past sports players (long since dead) brains were like (say days of when the NFL played like this)

 



 

6 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

I suspect their brains may have been healthier. 

 

I have no doubt that they were.  When helmets started to be made out of hard material and facemasks appeared, this created a greater willingness to absorb blows to the head, and even encouraged players to use their own heads as a weapon.

Modern helmets protect against skull fracture; but they probably promote concussions.

[Gothamite]

Indeed.  

 

Worth pointing out that when plastic shells were first introduced, the NFL banned them on the advice of doctors who thought they would make the game less safe. 

 

 

The league bowed to pressure from companies like Riddell shortly thereafter, but it turns out that the physicians were correct after all. 

[goalieboy82]

20 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

Indeed.  

 

Worth pointing out that when plastic shells were first introduced, the NFL banned them on the advice of doctors who thought they would make the game less safe. 

 

 

The league bowed to pressure from companies like Riddell shortly thereafter, but it turns out that the physicians were correct after all. 

[dfwabel]

Thank you Ice_Cap (and any other Mods responsible) for unlocking this thread.

 

Since the lock, Merril Hoge released his book, "Brainwashed: The Bad Science Behind CTE and the Plot to Destroy Football", it is appropriate to unlock with the hope of cordial discussion.

 

Since the thread was locked before Labor Day and the start of both prep and college football, on weekend mornings, I go through some Twitter feeds such as:

1- Aggrigator ConcernedMom9, who basically tracks HS/college football injuries, ambulance use and mediflights.

2- Former prep volunteer, Kent Johnson

 

Oh, and on Thursday: New study finds evidence of brain injuries in football players at surprisingly young age.

 

Quote

There have been more and more cases confirming that repeated hits to the head have lifelong consequences for professional football players, but a new study by Orlando Health in collaboration with the Concussion Neuroimaging Consortium finds evidence of lasting effects from head injuries at a much younger age than expected. The study tested biomarkers in the blood called microRNA's and found that the college football players had elevated levels of these biomarkers that indicate concussions before the season even started.

 

"It was quite shocking to learn that the biomarkers were high before they were even involved in one hit or tackle for the season," said Linda Papa, MD, lead author of the study and emergency medicine physician at Orlando Health "This suggests that the effects of past head injuries are persisting over time."

 

Researchers also conducted cognitive tests with each study participant before and after the season and found that those who struggled with balance and memory had higher levels of the biomarkers.

"Some of these players had never been diagnosed with a concussion but they still had elevated biomarker levels in their blood, indicating they likely experienced head injuries that were not severe enough to be clinically diagnosed, but still caused damage. These injuries are also known as subconcussive injuries," said Papa.

 

[Gothamite]

The title of Hoge’s book alone tells us an awful lot. Accusing independent scientists of “hidden agendas”. He even takes a swipe at the New York Times, for crying out loud. 

 

The book also tries to pick apart one study’s methods while ignoring other studies that are inconvenient to his own agenda.  Disgraceful, but not surprising.

 

Quote

In their op-ed, Hoge and Cummings call the evidence of football causing CTE “pseudoscience,” laying out their case by saying that McKee’s 2017 bombshell study that found signs of CTE in 110 out of 111 brains of former NFL players had no control group as a comparison — no brains, say, from people who did not play football.

 

The only problem with that contention is that a 2015 Mayo Clinic study co-authored by McKee tested the brains of 198 individuals who had no exposure to contact sports in their lives — and not a single one of those 198 brains showed signs of CTE.

 

To recap: CTE was present in the brains of 110 out of 111 ex-NFL players, and in the brains of zero out of 198 people who did not play contact sports.

 

“I’m happy to ask Merril Hoge who to draft No. 1 next year,” Chris Nowinski, Ph.D., CEO of the Concussion Legacy Foundation, said in a phone interview, “but we shouldn’t be asking him how to design research studies.”

 

But sure, Merrill. This is a massive plot by the scientific community, the Centers for Disease Control and the Times to “destroy football”.

[dfwabel]

6 hours ago, Gothamite said:

The title of Hoge’s book alone tells us an awful lot.  What a Trumpian statement, accusing independent scientists of “hidden agendas”. He even takes a swipe at the New York Times, for crying out loud. 

 

The book also tries to pick apart one study’s methods while ignoring other studies that are inconvenient to his own agenda.  Disgraceful, but not surprising.

 

 

But sure, Merrill. This is a massive plot by the scientific community, the Centers for Disease Control and the Times to “destroy football”.

Also note that the every person who wrote on the book jacket has a vested interest in football. 

Bill Polian

Cris Collingsworth

Suzy Kobler

Trent Dilfer (now runs the Elite 11 for Nike)

 

https://thebiglead.com/2018/10/24/merrill-hoge-brainwashed-book/