Cleveland Browns Unveil New Uniforms

[Sport]

41 minutes ago, WavePunter said:

It's not the "mathematics" that have me thinking it would look better.. it's the actual look.. it looks better with B/O/B striping.. by a LONG shot..

 

No it doesn't. it looks worse with B/O/B striping.. by a LONG shot..

 

41 minutes ago, WavePunter said:

the Giants uniforms work because they're simple, classic, and well-designed.. they look great just like the Browns. And like the Browns, they're also not perfect. 

 

That's my point. They're not supposed to be "mathematically" perfect. 

 

every attempt at BOB stripes hasn't worked. I'm glad they're not trying it again. 

[WavePunter]

1 hour ago, Sport said:

 

No it doesn't. it looks worse with B/O/B striping.. by a LONG shot..

 

 

That's my point. They're not supposed to be "mathematically" perfect. 

 

every attempt at BOB stripes hasn't worked. I'm glad they're not trying it again. 

It HAS worked.. most of the times, it's been accompanied by horrible design choices elsewhere in the uniform, so everything gets scrapped.. doesn't mean that one element was bad.. the OBO striping looks horrible.. no two ways about it.. BOB is unquestionably superior.. you won't change my mind on this

[IceCap]

OBO looks like classic Browns to me. 

BOB looks like whenever the Browns try to get too flashy. The Browns should never be flashy. They should have an old school, traditional football look. 

 

OBO does a better job at accomplishing that, I think. 

[WavePunter]

2 hours ago, andrewharrington said:

But then I could just say, well, because it’s supposed to coordinate with the helmet design, not the sleeve and sock design, and I could say that it makes sense because they’re “cycling” the colors through the entire design instead of switching the center and background, or I could say that they’re just pulling the center section out of the white sleeve stripes. There are lots of ways to make something “make sense,” but sense, just like beauty, is in the eye (brain) of the beholder.

This makes no sense in any other context than in the graphic posted a page or two back where each striping pattern is scaled to the exact same size and placed next to each other such that it "makes sense".. although in the actual uniform, each element has to carry its own weight to balance the uniform.. the striping patterns on every uniform element other than pants is brown-on-the-outside and/or orange-in-the-middle.. breaking both of those "rules" makes very little sense, and in my very honest opinion looks worse (regardless of facemask color).. 

[WavePunter]

6 minutes ago, IceCap said:

OBO looks like classic Browns to me. 

BOB looks like whenever the Browns try to get too flashy. The Browns should never be flashy. They should have an old school, traditional football look. 

 

OBO does a better job at accomplishing that, I think. 

I would argue that dark/light/dark striping is the most traditional football look of all options, so the OBO misses the mark in that regard.. the orange stripes also tend to kinda get lost or blur into the white when you have the two lighter colors next to each other.. the Packers, Bears, Cowboys, 49ers, classic Lions, etc all use the dark/light/dark look for a very good reason - it looks better and looks right.. just because the browns have been doing it wrong doesn't mean they can't fix it.. it just doesn't look as good or even right to me, even though it's "classic Browns".. it's the single element I'd like to see brought forward and in line with the rest of the uniform (but I also think they should wear orange pants, so there's that..)

[IceCap]

6 minutes ago, WavePunter said:

the orange stripes also tend to kinda get lost or blur into the white when you have the two lighter colors next to each other

Yes. 

That's why I like OBO. The brown should be more prominent. That helps with the "classic" Browns look, in my opinion. 

 

OBO is unquestionably superior.. you won't change my mind on this 

[WavePunter]

12 minutes ago, IceCap said:

Yes. 

That's why I like OBO. The brown should be more prominent. That helps with the "classic" Browns look, in my opinion. 

 

OBO is unquestionably superior.. you won't change my mind on this 

I don’t intend on changing your mind.. just pointing out that your mind is wrong .. 

The single, muddled brown stripe is less prominent for both brown and orange imo when handled in the OBO manner.. the brown gets to pop against the white while framing the orange (allowing its presence to be better felt as well) in the BOB striping.. add that to the fact that it's more in line with the classic football aesthetic (something the Browns seem to be going for), plus it's more cohesive with the rest of the uniform, and the fact that it just looks better to my eye are the reasons why I prefer the BOB configuration.. the same goes for the 70's Dolphins OAO stripes on their white pants.. also a mistake, particularly with that type of triple-stripe configuration.. 

Either way, I don't prefer the OBO striping, but you guys seem to, and that's what the team went with.. you guys should be happy you got your way.. hopefully they can continue to build on the rich tradition of futility that striping pattern has brought them

[IceCap]

11 minutes ago, WavePunter said:

add that to the fact that it's more in line with the classic football aesthetic (something the Browns seem to be going for)

It's not though. The Browns have traditionally worn OBO. So in the context of the Cleveland Browns OBO is the classic football aesthetic.

 

12 minutes ago, WavePunter said:

hopefully they can continue to build on the rich tradition of futility that striping pattern has brought them

What have they won in BOB though?

[oldschoolvikings]

1 minute ago, IceCap said:

 

 

What have they won in BOB though?

 

They went 0 -16 in the BOB. 

 

And looked bad doing it.

[IceCap]

20 minutes ago, WavePunter said:

hopefully they can continue to build on the rich tradition of futility that striping pattern has brought them

 

A list of the Browns' league championships and the pants striping worn with each...

 

1946 AAFC Champions: OBO

1947 AAFC Champions: OBO

1948 AAFC Champions: OBO

1949 AAFC Champions: OBO

1950 NFL Champions: OBO

1954 NFL Champions: OBO

1955 NFL Champions: OBO

1964 NFL Champions: OBO

 

That's every Browns championship, and it's a straight wash for OBO. Meanwhile...

 

2017 0-16: BOB

 

[WavePunter]

1 minute ago, IceCap said:

It's not though. The Browns have traditionally worn OBO. So in the context of the Cleveland Browns OBO is the classic football aesthetic.

No, it's the classic Browns aesthetic.. the classic football aesthetic Would be dark/light/dark striping - as I discussed earlier (GB, SF, Chi, etc..).. I understand why they would choose the classic Browns aesthetic, and why you might prefer that, but as a classic football team trying to portray a classic football identity, they could also get away with the classic football aesthetic of dark/light/dark

6 minutes ago, IceCap said:

What have they won in BOB though?

Not much.. haven't been given much chance

[WavePunter]

Just now, IceCap said:

 

A list of the Browns' league championships and the pants striping worn with each...

 

1946 AAFC Champions: OBO

1947 AAFC Champions: OBO

1948 AAFC Champions: OBO

1949 AAFC Champions: OBO

1950 NFL Champions: OBO

1954 NFL Champions: OBO

1955 NFL Champions: OBO

1964 NFL Champions: OBO

 

That's every Browns championship, and it's a straight wash for OBO. Meanwhile...

 

2017 0-16: BOB

 

2017 can't get credit for being BOB.. it was more wordmark than stripe (and that wordmark was very "brown-prominent", just the rest you like it )

[IceCap]

1 minute ago, WavePunter said:

No, it's the classic Browns aesthetic.. the classic football aesthetic Would be dark/light/dark striping - as I discussed earlier (GB, SF, Chi, etc..).. I understand why they would choose the classic Browns aesthetic, and why you might prefer that, but as a classic football team trying to portray a classic football identity, they could also get away with the classic football aesthetic of dark/light/dark

Nothing exists in a vacuum though. Dark/light/dark works for the Packers, 49ers, Bears, and co. because that's what they've always worn. What's "proper" is dictated by tradition. It's another sport, but look at hockey. The Montreal Canadiens have been wearing the same design for close to a century and their mismatched home/road set is considered untouchable. Meanwhile the Minnesota Wild (est. 2000) try it and everyone goes "just match the home and roads already."

 

OBO is the classic aesthetic for the Browns. It works for them. Maybe we'd all prefer BOB if they'd always done it that way, but again it's contextual. To me? The Browns' OBO stripes look understated, with the Brown as the dominant colour giving everything a classic look. BOB striping just calls to mind their attempts to appear "modern" and flashy, ala 1984 and 2015. Both were looks so thoroughly rejected that the Browns reverted to more classic-looking identities (including OBO stripes) as soon as the league would allow them to. It just doesn't work for them.

 

7 minutes ago, WavePunter said:

Not much.. haven't been given much chance

Fair enough, but you were the one who brought success associated with each striping pattern up

[WavePunter]

2 minutes ago, IceCap said:

Nothing exists in a vacuum though. Dark/light/dark works for the Packers, 49ers, Bears, and co. because that's what they've always worn. What's "proper" is dictated by tradition. It's another sport, but look at hockey. The Montreal Canadiens have been wearing the same design for close to a century and their mismatched home/road set is considered untouchable. Meanwhile the Minnesota Wild (est. 2000) try it and everyone goes "just match the home and roads already."

 

OBO is the classic aesthetic for the Browns. It works for them. Maybe we'd all prefer BOB if they'd always done it that way, but again it's contextual. To me? The Browns' OBO stripes look understated, with the Brown as the dominant colour giving everything a classic look. BOB striping just calls to mind their attempts to appear "modern" and flashy, ala 1984 and 2015. Both were looks so thoroughly rejected that the Browns reverted to more classic-looking identities (including OBO stripes) as soon as the league would allow them to. It just doesn't work for them.

 

Fair enough, but you were the one who brought success associated with each striping pattern up

Exactly as you said, nothing exists in a vacuum.. essentially every other team doing something a certain way kinda proves that it's the proper way and the better-looking way, and traditionally, it's the standard to go dark/light/dark on white pants, and dark/white/dark on light pants.. the way the vast majority of teams have done it throughout history is the de facto "classic football aesthetic".. again, the browns are using their own classic aesthetic, but it's the opposite of THE classic football aesthetic (solely in terms of pants striping.. the rest of their look is obviously very classic)

 

Brown is the dominant color in the BOB striping pattern.. you should like it for that very reason..

 

And I only brought up the success ONE of those patterns is associated with.. although the percentages are probably pretty similar ..

And as I pointed out earlier, they went away from them each time they abandoned "flashier" looks, but it was the major, glaring issues with the jerseys (particularly the orange numbers on the brown jerseys) that led to them simply reverting back to a previous look.. so it's not  like there was much in-depth discussion about details and specifics.. it was just, "hey we screwed the pooch on these, so let's save face and go back with the old duds.." the pants stripes were never the issue with the failed flashy sets

[infrared41]

Boys, I think we're getting too caught up in the Browns pants stripes. There is but one question and only one question that needs to be answered here; do the new Browns uniforms look good? Yes. Yes they do. In fact, they look really good. Honestly, are we going to let a striping pattern on the pants cast a shadow over this new and wondrous era of Browns football? Yeah, scratch that. I forgot where I was for a moment there. 

 

Carry on. 

 

EDIT: Oh, and my vote is OBO. Why? Because it looks better and to me, that is the only thing that matters. Consistency is for...well...I really don't know why some of us get so caught up in consistency. But here we are. 

 

Carry on. 

 

 

 

[IceCap]

1 minute ago, WavePunter said:

Brown is the dominant color in the BOB striping pattern.. you should like it for that very reason..

BOB looks too much like the orange is at the centre of attention. OBO looks like the orange is complementary to the brown. My "ideal" of the Cleveland Browns is that they are, from the neck down, a brown and white team with orange accents.

 

And I thought you weren't trying to change my mind? If so please don't tell me what I should like

 

3 minutes ago, WavePunter said:

essentially every other team doing something a certain way kinda proves that it's the proper way

Not really? Some colour combos look better in different orders than other colour combos. I don't think there's a "proper" way to order two colours in a triple stripe that fits every possible colour combo. The only requirement is that the resulting design looks good. And in the case of brown and orange? I prefer OBO.

[andrewharrington]

12 minutes ago, WavePunter said:

Exactly as you said, nothing exists in a vacuum.. essentially every other team doing something a certain way kinda proves that it's the proper way and the better-looking way, and traditionally, it's the standard to go dark/light/dark on white pants, and dark/white/dark on light pants.. the way the vast majority of teams have done it throughout history is the de facto "classic football aesthetic".. again, the browns are using their own classic aesthetic, but it's the opposite of THE classic football aesthetic (solely in terms of pants striping.. the rest of their look is obviously very classic)

 

Brown is the dominant color in the BOB striping pattern.. you should like it for that very reason..

The Browns, however, are the only one of those teams that wears a different color helmet, jersey, and pants, and that makes all the difference when it comes to deciding between “the formula” and what works best.

 

Your second paragraph is the root of the disagreement. In my opinion, the pants need to be orange dominant to balance the helmet (but again, I’m willing to bet brown-dominant pants work much better with the new helmet than the classic one).

 

We’re just going to have to agree to disagree and be happy that the Browns found the luggage they lost in 2015.

[infrared41]

1 minute ago, IceCap said:

And I thought you weren't trying to change my mind? 

 

Try to change your mind? Taking a Wolverine cub away from its mother would be an easier task. And less dangerous. (Trust me on this one, fellas.) 

[WavePunter]

11 minutes ago, IceCap said:

BOB looks too much like the orange is at the centre of attention. OBO looks like the orange is complementary to the brown. My "ideal" of the Cleveland Browns is that they are, from the neck down, a brown and white team with orange accents.

 

And I thought you weren't trying to change my mind? If so please don't tell me what I should like

 

Not really? Some colour combos look better in different orders than other colour combos. I don't think there's a "proper" way to order two colours in a triple stripe that fits every possible colour combo. The only requirement is that the resulting design looks good. And in the case of brown and orange? I prefer OBO.

Basing that solely off of your own words.. you said twice that you prefer the brown to be more prominent on the pants.. putting twice as much brown certainly accomplishes the task.. better than having it as the least-used color on the entire garment.

[infrared41]

12 minutes ago, WavePunter said:

essentially every other team doing something a certain way kinda proves that it's the proper way and the better-looking way,

 

Not for nothing, but there's no such thing as "proving the proper and better looking way." It's all subjective. Ain't no one here saying the Cowboys uniforms are "proper." Those uniforms are a mess in 7 different directions and a lot of people here like them just the way they are. Preaching objective truth here is like preaching the joys of Jack Daniels to a church congregation. You can do it, but people will definitely look at you funny.