2020 College Football

[Luigi74]

20 hours ago, Red Wolf said:

I would say it's an issue of the playoff not going far enough. If we stick with this silly bowl system, then we need to go all the way and make it as dumb as possible. No BCS and no playoff like in the ancient times. If we're going to do a playoff then it needs to be a proper one and not a semifinal + final.

 

Feeling slighted is the essence of college football. We didn't get very far into the playoff era before we had somebody else claiming a national title with UCF, so clearly they didn't do a good enough job with the system. Coastal might lose by a million to Alabama or Clemson, but Oklahoma does that every year, so would it really be that different?

Yeah the old school bowl system was frustrating but still way better than the mess we have now, having all of the big bowls on New Years Day with different scenarios for who could end up National Champion made for a fun day of football watching. If the old school system was in place this year we'd most likely have #1 Alabama vs. #2 ND or Clemson in the Sugar Bowl(the ACC didn't have an auto-bid until the early 90's), Cincinnati would still be shut out of the National Championship Game but there would still be a sliver of hope that a Bama loss and a overwhelming Cincy win in the Orange Bowl or Cotton Bowl would give them a fraction of the National Championship.

[MJWalker45]

19 hours ago, See Red said:

 

The P5 would split from the G5 long, long, long before it ever got to this.

 

But really, there's at most one or two G5 teams with any kind of claim to making the playoff in a given year, and it's usually not even a strong claim.  MAC Champion Miami-Ohio lost by 70 to Ohio State last year -- why should they have gotten an automatic seat at the table when they were probably worse than any Big Ten team?

This happens in FCS though, right? Heck, Ohio State got blown out by Iowa and still made the playoffs one year. Why should P5 teams be allowed to get snuffed out, but not G5 teams? A&M could get in this year and they were blown out by Alabama. 

[shstpt1]

Kirk Herbstreit, even though it involves Ohio State, agrees that the CFP needs to change.

Splitting the P5 and G5 apart from one another is a ridiculous idea as well. Some of those G5 teams fought for years to get to the FBS level, and then to get pseudo-demoted because they are in the wrong conference is dumb. 

 

There are teams that win championships every year, in EVERY league, that did not have the best records or the highest payroll. That would be like putting the Yankees and Dodgers in the World series every year to play against each other because they "have the best team" on paper.  

 

 

https://247sports.com/Article/Kirk-Herbstreit-wants-changes-College-Football-Playoff-system-Alabama-Clemson-Ohio-State-157104268/

 

[See Red]

2 hours ago, MJWalker45 said:

This happens in FCS though, right? Heck, Ohio State got blown out by Iowa and still made the playoffs one year. Why should P5 teams be allowed to get snuffed out, but not G5 teams? A&M could get in this year and they were blown out by Alabama. 

 

Ohio State did not make the playoffs the year they were blown out by Iowa -- they finished fifth after defeating Wisconsin in the Big Ten Championship game.  Alabama made the playoff as a non-CCG participant and won the National Championship over SEC Champ Georgia, who has not won a national championship since 1980 and claims their only other National Championship in a year in which most other programs didn't field teams because of WWII because they're a sad program that almost certainly cheats (the part about UGA doesn't matter but it's fun to point out).  You could make the case for UCF that year but their schedule was incredibly weak*.  For what it's worth, Ohio State also didn't make the playoffs the year they were blown out by Purdue either, finishing sixth at 12-1.

 

I don't know if they actually are, but you can easily make the argument that Texas A&M is one of the four best teams in the country -- or one of the four most-deserving based on resume.  You can't reasonably make the argument that Miami-Ohio, that lost all of their non-FCS out-of-conference games (by 71 to OSU, by 22 to Cincinnati, and by 24 to Iowa) and was 8-5 after the conference championship games was one of the sixteen best teams last season.

 

At this point, just do an eight-team playoff and let computers figure it out, not a committee that's clearly biased.  I don't see why auto-bids are necessary.  If a conference can't get a team into the top 8, that's on them.  I'd even say cap it at a max of 2 teams in any given conference.  I'd even say keep the bowl affiliations as much as you can, but in some years (last year, for one) you'd end up with #7 and #8 playing each other and you'd always get ACC #1 playing SEC #2, so it leaves the door open for higher-ranked teams complaining they got tougher first round games.

 

*Also, I think everybody should be against UCF because at least schools like Cincy and Boise State try and schedule difficult opponents every once in a while.  UCF schedules Pitt and then complains about how they couldn't possibly know when the game was scheduled that Pitt wouldn't be any good as if Pitt has ever been good without Dan Marino at QB, meanwhile they turn down offers by Florida to play.  I hate Florida State but at least they earned their way back in the 80's with a willingness to play anybody before they joined the ACC like cowards instead of the SEC because it was an easier path to national championships.

[MJWalker45]

13 minutes ago, See Red said:

 

Ohio State did not make the playoffs the year they were blown out by Iowa -- they finished fifth after defeating Wisconsin in the Big Ten Championship game.  Alabama made the playoff as a non-CCG participant and won the National Championship over SEC Champ Georgia, who has not won a national championship since 1980 and claims their only other National Championship in a year in which most other programs didn't field teams because of WWII because they're a sad program (the part about UGA doesn't matter but it's fun to point out).  You could make the case for UCF that year but their schedule was incredibly weak.  For what it's worth, Ohio State also didn't make the playoffs the year they were blown out by Purdue either, finishing sixth at 12-1.

 

I don't know if they actually are, but you can easily make the argument that Texas A&M is one of the four best teams in the country -- or one of the four most-deserving based on resume.  You can't reasonably make the argument that Miami-Ohio, that lost all of their non-FCS out-of-conference games (by 71 to OSU, by 22 to Cincinnati, and by 24 to Iowa) and was 8-5 after the conference championship games was one of the sixteen best teams last season.

 

At this point, just do an eight-team playoff and let computers figure it out, not a committee that's clearly biased.  I don't see why auto-bids are necessary.  If a conference can't get a team into the top 8, that's on them.  I'd even say cap it at a max of 2 teams in any given conference.  I'd even say keep the bowl affiliations as much as you can, but in some years (last year, for one) you'd end up with #7 and #8 playing each other and you'd always get ACC #1 playing SEC #2, so it leaves the door open for higher-ranked teams complaining they got tougher first round games.

 

FBS is the only division that holds team to the standard that winning the league won't get you in. Every other division allows for league champions to join as long as that league meets the standards. The GMAC in Division II does not get an automatic bid because it doesn't have enough teams that play football. I'm sure there are others. Of course HBCU teams don't participate because they make more money playing in Classic games. 

* Note Lafayette (5-6) hosted New Hampshire (7-4). Also of note, the NCAA bids out playoff games so if Lafayette promised more, besides being the conference champ, they could host the games all the way up to the semi-final. 

[See Red]

10 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

FBS is the only division that holds team to the standard that winning the league won't get you in. Every other division allows for league champions to join as long as that league meets the standards. The GMAC in Division II does not get an automatic bid because it doesn't have enough teams that play football. I'm sure there are others. Of course HBCU teams don't participate because they make more money playing in Classic games. 

 

Great!  That means the programs that don't like the FBS system have other options for which division they decide to play in.  Instead, though, they're going to make decisions based on money and then criticize other schools (the ones that actually generate the interest and money) for also making decisions based on money.

[MJWalker45]

34 minutes ago, See Red said:

 

Great!  That means the programs that don't like the FBS system have other options for which division they decide to play in.

People are pretending that if they expanded to 8 teams that some 5-7 team will win a spot in the playoffs. That won't happen. Because the only ones guaranteed will be the Power 5 champs, the best G5 team and two other P5 with the best records that aren't already in. If this happens you'll probably see everyone look at the Big XII model where it's the two best teams playing in their title games. 

[See Red]

34 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

People are pretending that if they expanded to 8 teams that some 5-7 team will win a spot in the playoffs. That won't happen. Because the only ones guaranteed will be the Power 5 champs, the best G5 team and two other P5 with the best records that aren't already in. If this happens you'll probably see everyone look at the Big XII model where it's the two best teams playing intheir title games. 

 

What's the point of auto bids, though?  If the Pac 12 produces a 9 win conference champion, why should they get in just because?  Two years ago the Pac 12 Championship was 9-3 Washington vs. 9-3 Utah -- neither team deserved to be a playoff team, even if it were 8 teams.  That's a Pac 12 problem.

 

In my opinion, you only need auto-bids if you have humans deciding the rankings, and even then, I'd say only for one G5 slot and only if there's a deserving team (2019 Memphis, for example, was not deserving).  Get rid of humans doing the rankings and make it so we never have to use "eye test" used in any official capacity ever again.

[MJWalker45]

4 minutes ago, See Red said:

 

What's the point of auto bids, though?  If the Pac 12 produces a 9 win conference champion, why should they get in just because?  Two years ago the Pac 12 Championship was 9-3 Washington vs. 9-3 Utah -- neither team deserved to be a playoff team, even if it were 8 teams.  That's a Pac 12 problem.

Because they won their league. If Alabama goes 9-3 and don't win the conference, what's the chances they make the playoffs if there are 8 slots to fill? If they are the best team not in, they'll be in. Is it likely a team with 3 losses would be the next best team not in? Probably not. But if they are, will people be complaining about it or will they talk about the game between Alabama and Number 2 USC or Oregon? 

[See Red]

1 minute ago, MJWalker45 said:

Because they won their league. If Alabama goes 9-3 and don't win the conference, what's the chances they make the playoffs if there are 8 slots to fill? If they are the best team not in, they'll be in. Is it likely a team with 3 losses would be the next best team not in? Probably not. But if they are, will people be complaining about it or will they talk about the game between Alabama and Number 2 USC or Oregon? 

 

If their league is bad, who cares?

[shstpt1]

Also, the point of Auto-Bids... They offer a clear, unobjective way to have the ability to compete for the championship. You know what you need to do at the beginning of the year. Just like the NFL, NBA, D2, D3, Basketball, softball, volleyball, ect. You want to guarantee your way to the playoff... Win your conference, which means perform well in regular season to get in the conference championship game. Use a select set of bowl games to host finals, semi finals, and quarter finals, and rotate them each year, just like the set up now. 

 

This opens up a chance for more opportunities to compete, rather than the same handful of teams that are determined in July. If you truly are the one of the "best teams in the country", then win your conference and prove it. 

[Kramerica Industries]

1 hour ago, See Red said:

 

Ohio State did not make the playoffs the year they were blown out by Iowa -- they finished fifth after defeating Wisconsin in the Big Ten Championship game.  Alabama made the playoff as a non-CCG participant and won the National Championship over SEC Champ Georgia, who has not won a national championship since 1980 and claims their only other National Championship in a year in which most other programs didn't field teams because of WWII because they're a sad program that almost certainly cheats (the part about UGA doesn't matter but it's fun to point out).  You could make the case for UCF that year but their schedule was incredibly weak*.  For what it's worth, Ohio State also didn't make the playoffs the year they were blown out by Purdue either, finishing sixth at 12-1.

 

I don't know if they actually are, but you can easily make the argument that Texas A&M is one of the four best teams in the country -- or one of the four most-deserving based on resume.  You can't reasonably make the argument that Miami-Ohio, that lost all of their non-FCS out-of-conference games (by 71 to OSU, by 22 to Cincinnati, and by 24 to Iowa) and was 8-5 after the conference championship games was one of the sixteen best teams last season.

 

At this point, just do an eight-team playoff and let computers figure it out, not a committee that's clearly biased.  I don't see why auto-bids are necessary.  If a conference can't get a team into the top 8, that's on them.  I'd even say cap it at a max of 2 teams in any given conference.  I'd even say keep the bowl affiliations as much as you can, but in some years (last year, for one) you'd end up with #7 and #8 playing each other and you'd always get ACC #1 playing SEC #2, so it leaves the door open for higher-ranked teams complaining they got tougher first round games.

 

*Also, I think everybody should be against UCF because at least schools like Cincy and Boise State try and schedule difficult opponents every once in a while.  UCF schedules Pitt and then complains about how they couldn't possibly know when the game was scheduled that Pitt wouldn't be any good as if Pitt has ever been good without Dan Marino at QB, meanwhile they turn down offers by Florida to play.  I hate Florida State but at least they earned their way back in the 80's with a willingness to play anybody before they joined the ACC like cowards instead of the SEC because it was an easier path to national championships.

 

Kind of ado about nothing, but this post takes digs at Georgia, Florida State, and even Central Florida with regard to turning down offers to play Florida. One "like" click isn't enough of an acknowledgement for how much I like this post.

[MJWalker45]

11 minutes ago, See Red said:

 

If their league is bad, who cares?

They all agreed to it, like in every other league in the NCAA, if the league is bad that's the price of competition. Someone from the NFC East will make the playoffs this year, and that title will mean as much to them as it will to whomever wins the NFC West. We're asking schools to perfect or damn near perfect when that's not realistic for 95% of the division because they either play in a league with multiple behemoths or their league is considered not up to par, even when they beat teams in a higher profile conference. 

[See Red]

14 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

They all agreed to it, like in every other league in the NCAA, if the league is bad that's the price of competition. Someone from the NFC East will make the playoffs this year, and that title will mean as much to them as it will to whomever wins the NFC West. We're asking schools to perfect or damn near perfect when that's not realistic for 95% of the division because they either play in a league with multiple behemoths or their league is considered not up to par, even when they beat teams in a higher profile conference. 

 

And everybody spent the first half of the season pissing and moaning about it (the division has looked better since), just like they have when an 8-8 team or what have you makes the playoffs in the NFL.  And they say things about how it's ridiculous this team gets to be in the playoffs while a 10-win team is eliminated.  You shouldn't get rewarded because your conference sucks.

 

19 minutes ago, Kramerica Industries said:

Kind of ado about nothing, but this post takes digs at Georgia, Florida State, and even Central Florida with regard to turning down offers to play Florida. One "like" click isn't enough of an acknowledgement for how much I like this post.

 

My only regret is that I didn't get Tennessee in there too.

[MJWalker45]

Just now, See Red said:

 

You shouldn't get rewarded because your conference sucks.

If you're playing by the rules agreed to, it's not getting rewarded. The problem with the rules in FBS at the moment, there are a lot of caveats that only exist in FBS football, particularly what conferences are "superior" to others because of historic results, rather than what actually happens on the field. If they went with the latter, Georgia, Florida, North Carolina and Iowa State would be lined up behind Cincinnati and Coastal Carolina. 

[See Red]

5 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

If you're playing by the rules agreed to, it's not getting rewarded.

 

I'm saying they shouldn't agree to it because it opens the door for a lesser team getting in entirely because their conference or division is bad.

 

5 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

The problem with the rules in FBS at the moment, there are a lot of caveats that only exist in FBS football, particularly what conferences are "superior" to others because of historic results, rather than what actually happens on the field.

 

Isn't that just enforced when you say a 9-win USC gets in just because they won the Pac 12, which is usually good even if it's not in a given year?  Beyond that, the caveats that exist only in FBS football is, to many, what makes the sport great.  It's become the second most popular sport in this country despite the disparity between programs and despite the fact that there's been 187 claimed national championships in 150 seasons and could be a lot more.  I don't get why we have to so drastically change something people have loved for decades just because a bunch of people all of a sudden started caring and decided it's not fair for them (looking at UCF fans).

 

The superiority of conferences based on historic results is exactly why I think computer polls should play a significant role in the process.  A committee of people just isn't capable of taking in all of the data and letting go of their biases.

 

[Red Wolf]

2 hours ago, See Red said:

*Also, I think everybody should be against UCF because at least schools like Cincy and Boise State try and schedule difficult opponents every once in a while.  UCF schedules Pitt and then complains about how they couldn't possibly know when the game was scheduled that Pitt wouldn't be any good as if Pitt has ever been good without Dan Marino at QB, meanwhile they turn down offers by Florida to play.  I hate Florida State but at least they earned their way back in the 80's with a willingness to play anybody before they joined the ACC like cowards instead of the SEC because it was an easier path to national championships.

Let me know when Florida is taking 2-for-1 offers where they go on the road twice. Until then, you know this is a phony argument.

[Brian in Boston]

• Cap FBS membership at 120 schools.

• Split said schools into 10 conferences of 12 schools each, with each conference comprised of a pair of 6-school divisions. 
 
• Do away with the "independent" football program designation; schools either belong to a conference or their football programs can compete in the FCS.

• Each school plays a 10-game regular season schedule, with 8 conference games (5 within a school's division, 3 against the other division) and 2 non-conference games.

• At the close of the regular season, a conference's division winners play a championship game.

• Following the conference championship games, ten conference champions and six at-large teams advance to the Division I FBS Playoffs.

• Selection of the six at-large teams, as well as initial seeding of all of the teams within the playoff bracket, is accomplished through a computer program utilizing an iterative strength ranking procedure to determine (a) which six of the 110 schools that did not win a conference championship are most deserving of the at-large bids and (b) how the 16 playoff participants comparatively rank.

• Once the 16 Division I FBS Playoff participants are ranked (#1 seed through #16 seed), opponents are paired (#1 vs. #16, #2 vs. #15, etc.). Higher-ranking seeds host Round of 16 games on their respective campuses.

• Quarterfinals, Semifinals, and the Division I FBS Playoff Championship are rotated amongst stadia in the cities/metro areas that have historically played host to the Rose, Orange, Sugar, Cotton, Peach, Fiesta and Citrus Bowls.            
    

[sportsfan7]

Going back to the start of the CFP in the 2014 season here are how the playoff would've been selected for both P5 champs, top G5, and 2 at-large (referred to as auto-bids), and top 8 overall (referred to as top-8) using the final rankings.

 

*- at-large

 

2014

Auto-Bids

1. Alabama (12-1)

2. Oregon (12-1)

3. Florida State (13-0)

4. Ohio State (12-1)

5. Baylor (11-1)**Co-Champs

6. TCU (11-1)**Co-Champs

7. Mississippi State (10-2)*

8. Boise State (11-2)

 

Top 8

1. Alabama (12-1)

2. Oregon (12-1)

3. Florida State (13-0)

4. Ohio State (12-1)

5. Baylor (11-1)

6. TCU (11-1)

7. Mississippi State (10-2)

8. Michigan State (10-2)

 

2015

Auto-Bids

1. Clemson (13-0)

2. Alabama (12-1)

3. Michigan State (12-1)

4. Oklahoma (11-1)

5. Iowa (12-1)*

6. Stanford (11-2)

7. Ohio State (11-2)*

8. Houston (12-1)

 

Top 8

1. Clemson (13-0)

2. Alabama (12-1)

3. Michigan State (12-1)

4. Oklahoma (11-1)

5. Iowa (12-1)

6. Stanford (11-2)

7. Ohio State (11-2)

8. Notre Dame (10-2)

 

2016

Auto-Bids

1. Alabama (13-0)

2. Clemson (12-1)

3. Ohio State (12-1)*

4. Washington (12-1)

5. Penn State (11-2)

6. Michigan (10-2)*

7. Oklahoma (10-2)

8. Western Michigan (13-0)

 

Top 8

1. Alabama (13-0)

2. Clemson (12-1)

3. Ohio State (12-1)

4. Washington (12-1)

5. Penn State (11-2)

6. Michigan (10-2)

7. Oklahoma (10-2)

8. Wisconsin (10-3)

 

2017

Auto-Bids

1. Clemson (12-1)

2. Oklahoma (12-1)

3. Georgia (12-1)

4. Alabama (11-1)*

5. Ohio State (11-2)

6. Wisconsin (12-1)*

7. USC (11-2)

8. UCF (12-0)

 

Top-8

1. Clemson (12-1)

2. Oklahoma (12-1)

3. Georgia (12-1)

4. Alabama (11-1)

5. Ohio State (11-2)

6. Wisconsin (12-1)

7. Auburn (10-3)

8. USC (11-2)

 

2018

Auto-Bids

1. Alabama (13-0)

2. Clemson (13-0)

3. Notre Dame (12-0)*

4. Oklahoma (12-1)

5. Georgia (11-2)*

6. Ohio State (12-1)

7. UCF (12-0)

8. Washington (10-3)

 

Top-8

1. Alabama (13-0)

2. Clemson (13-0)

3. Notre Dame (12-0)

4. Oklahoma (12-1)

5. Georgia (11-2)

6. Ohio State (12-1)

7. Michigan (10-2)

8. UCF (12-0)

 

2019

Auto-Bids

1. LSU (13-0)

2. Ohio State (13-0)

3. Clemson (13-0)

4. Oklahoma (12-1)

5. Georgia (11-2)*

6. Oregon (11-2)

7. Baylor (11-2)*

8. Memphis (12-1)

 

Top-8

1. LSU (13-0)

2. Ohio State (13-0)

3. Clemson (13-0)

4. Oklahoma (12-1)

5. Georgia (11-2)

6. Oregon (11-2)

7. Baylor (11-2)

8. Wisconsin (10-3)

[See Red]

1 hour ago, Red Wolf said:

Let me know when Florida is taking 2-for-1 offers where they go on the road twice. Until then, you know this is a phony argument.

 

Florida doesn't need to, though -- Florida is near the top of SOS rankings in any given year and all but guaranteed to play at least one top ten team if they're in consideration for a playoff spot and typically plays more than one.  Florida has played an annual out-of-conference game with one of the most successful college football programs over the last three decades (outside of their recent slide) and conference games against LSU and Georgia.  UCF is in no such position.  They complain that top teams won't schedule them and then refuse to do it on the terms offered while USF does.  It's better for their brand to complain that they're being excluded than it is to actually go out and prove they belong because they'll lose to Florida and kill the illusion -- or maybe they don't and they live long enough to get molly-whopped by Alabama in a game where both teams are similarly motivated.

 

UCF knows how it is... they recruit the scraps that are left by the big three and all of the other P5 programs that come into Florida.  So what?  Did Scott Frost have some insane player development and game management skills he forgot to pack away when he left for Nebraska?  Of course not.  They just need to keep up appearances until the Big XII decides they want to expand into Florida and looks their way.