XFL 2023: Third Time's the Charm!

[rainmaker17]

Cool. I'll see him in person in mid-April. 

[CS85]

I've been occasionally providing the BASS guys my two cents regarding the XFL, and I'll summarize my thoughts to this point:

• St. Louis and Washington are embracing their teams and it sets fine examples for the rest of the XFL (and arguably is all that makes the league compelling at this point).  Their fans make for great atmospheres that the players buy into and it looks so fun on television.
• Orlando and Vegas have virtually zero fan buy-in, and their teams are appropriately unwatchable, but one is not causal of the other; each sucks respectively.
• Seattle has perhaps the most fun team to watch but the locals don't seem to give a rat's ass.
• The three Texas teams are holding their own, both in terms of fan buy-in and on-field product.  That said, it makes me uncomfortable when the big voice guy erotically grunt-shouts, "DRILL, BABAYYY, DRILL!!" after the Roughnecks score.

[McCall]

3 minutes ago, CS85 said:

I've been occasionally providing the BASS guys my two cents regarding the XFL, and I'll summarize my thoughts to this point:

• St. Louis and Washington are embracing their teams and it sets fine examples for the rest of the XFL (and arguably is all that makes the league compelling at this point).  Their fans make for great atmospheres that the players buy into and it looks so fun on television.
• Orlando and Vegas have virtually zero fan buy-in, and their teams are appropriately unwatchable, but one is not causal of the other; each sucks respectively.
• Seattle has perhaps the most fun team to watch but the locals don't seem to give a rat's ass.
• The three Texas teams are holding their own, both in terms of fan buy-in and on-field product.  That said, it makes me uncomfortable when the big voice guy erotically grunt-shouts, "DRILL, BABAYYY, DRILL!!" after the Roughnecks score.

1. Agreed.

2. Agreed. And although I, and I think it's the popular sentiment around here, believe the Vipers should be relocated out of Vegas, I wouldn't give up on Orlando as a market just yet. They've shown in the past they can support a spring football team.

3. Two of their games were on Thursday nights with less than stellar weather, so I'll give them a pass at this point. Their Saturday night game in week 4 drew over 15k, even in 45 degree weather.

4. San Antonio drew over 24k on opening night, went on the road for 3 weeks, then came back with a 1-3 team playing at 8pm Central time on Sunday night (still drew 13k+, a respectable number compared to other teams). And I'd place most of the blame for that drop in attendance on the scheduling. That's a pretty late game on a school/work night.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

29 minutes ago, CS85 said:

Seattle has perhaps the most fun team to watch but the locals don't seem to give a rat's ass.

 

There is zero local XFL presence. Haven't seen a sign, a TV ad, targeted social media, nothing. Unless you know the XFL exists, you'd have no way of knowing the XFL exists.

 

This is in sharp contrast to every other local team, but especially to the Kraken, who went all out when they first launched. Of course, there's a huge chasm of resources between the NHL and XFL, but still. Their local ground game is non existent.

 

Not sure how that compares to other markets.

[CS85]

51 minutes ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

 

There is zero local XFL presence. Haven't seen a sign, a TV ad, targeted social media, nothing. Unless you know the XFL exists, you'd have no way of knowing the XFL exists.

 

This is in sharp contrast to every other local team, but especially to the Kraken, who went all out when they first launched. Of course, there's a huge chasm of resources between the NHL and XFL, but still. Their local ground game is non existent.

 

Not sure how that compares to other markets.

 

I wonder if Seattle's a fringe market for the XFL.  It's probably expensive as all hell to maintain a sports franchise there, and considering how every team is more or less based out of Arlington anyway, I wouldn't be shocked if Orlando and Seattle are punted to Birmingham and either a Chicago (iffy, probably similar to Seattle at least in terms of taxes/fees/etc) or Atlanta/OKC/Tennessee.

 

As far as Vegas goes, you'd think they'd find a way to get them established far more firmly, as the gambling aspect is such a huge part of their broadcasts, but I don't know the ins and outs of how logical/cost-effective it would be to maintain a low-end team there.  All I know is that they can't under any circumstances play next season at a rickety high school field.  I cringe whenever Vegas is at home; it's such a black eye for the league, especially compared to the Battlehawk fans in full costume, hurling streamers, etc. in the comfort of an actual football structure.

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

1 hour ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

There is zero local XFL presence. Haven't seen a sign, a TV ad, targeted social media, nothing. Unless you know the XFL exists, you'd have no way of knowing the XFL exists.

 

I was surprised to find that none of the teams has a local radio deal, whether a rights sale or a time-buy.  I know that last season (meaning 2020) at least one team, Houston, had an arrangement with a local station, in that case ESPN 97.5 KFNC-FM.  I listened to a couple of games on that station, including the week 4 game against Dallas that felt like a pretty big deal, and I really enjoyed the presentation.

 

But this season, when I went to that station's stream in order to listen to a Roughnecks game, I found a talk show there discussing some weird obscure league.  (I think it's called "NFL" or something like that.  Whatever.  It'll never catch on.)

 

The absence of local radio is no doubt a symptom of the XFL's lack of effort at advertising in the teams' cities.  Surely the Dragons would be helped by even a meagre few billboards; and if a Seattle station were broadcasting the team's games, that station would presumably promote those games and would program around them, such as by discussing the team on the station's other shows.

 

Speaking as someone who enjoys games on radio, I am sad to say that the XFL's only "radio" (if you can call it that) is on the ESPN Xtra channel on Sirius XM channel 81.  But that's only the audio track of the television call, so it's a pretty poor way to follow a game.  What would be nice would be if those TV announcers, who are aware that their calls are going out over radio, adjusted those calls to account for radio.  But, alas, you can't expect Vin Scully-level professionalism from everyone.

 

Still, even as a radio lover, I would watch the games on television if I could.  But I only recently dropped cable, after those thieves priced me out.  I have some streaming apps, but not ESPN, which I do not want.  So watching on TV is not possible for me.  Luckily, I found a guy on YouTube who just live-streams his television.  (Don't tell anyone.)  The guy shoots his TV from clear across the room — and in portrait orientation, to boot; so it looks like crap.  But, thanks to the new YouTube functionality of zooming in on a video on a phone or tablet, I can blow up the picture to a visible size, and then synch the stream to the audio track on Sirius XM, and watch the games, albeit with terrible video quality.  But it's still enough to follow everything.

 

(Fortunately, the USFL is on Peacock, a streaming service which I do have.)

[McCall]

I think if they had teams 100% based out of their home markets like in 2020 and not flying in and out of Arlington every week, it would go a long way to establishing fanbases better. I still don't, however, think Vegas is a good fit. Birmingham and Memphis would be good relocation/expansion targets (along with San Diego) if they weren't already in the USFL. If that went under and the XFL was still going, then I'd definitely look at bringing them into the fold.

[MJWalker45]

27 minutes ago, McCall said:

I think if they had teams 100% based out of their home markets like in 2020 and not flying in and out of Arlington every week, it would go a long way to establishing fanbases better. I still don't, however, think Vegas is a good fit. Birmingham and Memphis would be good relocation/expansion targets (along with San Diego) if they weren't already in the USFL. If that went under and the XFL was still going, then I'd definitely look at bringing them into the fold.

I think this is the problem. Even with San Antonio just down the road, they can't have players going back and forth for community events once the season starts, unless they do something the day of the game. And no player wants to do a meet and greet when they are trying to get ready for a game. The Brahmas fan group has decided to do things like renting out movie theaters to get that fan interaction withing San Antonio and they've even allowed fans from other teams into the Facebook groups so that they have some feedback from the other teams' fans. I think if they based the teams fully in their home cities next year you could see a better product in the stands.  The USFL teams are at least practicing in the cities they'll be playing home games, so they can still get that local outreach, even if they won't be in their true home cities.

 

Vegas should get moved to San Diego, if possible. There's no reason to stay at Cashman, or in Vegas if they can't get a larger football stadium and butts in the seats. 

[GDAWG]

2 hours ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

 

There is zero local XFL presence. Haven't seen a sign, a TV ad, targeted social media, nothing. Unless you know the XFL exists, you'd have no way of knowing the XFL exists.

 

This is in sharp contrast to every other local team, but especially to the Kraken, who went all out when they first launched. Of course, there's a huge chasm of resources between the NHL and XFL, but still. Their local ground game is non existent.

 

Not sure how that compares to other markets.

 

Non existent in DFW, probably because the team is named the Arlington Renegades, but that doesn't mean they can't promote to Dallas County.  Yes, the NHL and NBA teams use the city name Dallas, but both teams heavily market and promote themselves in Tarrant County (where Arlington is).  The Stars themselves have StarCenters (ice skating/Youth hockey venues) in Mansfield and Euless, both in Tarrant County.  Likewise, the Texas Rangers play in Arlington, but has a youth academy in Dallas.    

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

59 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

1 hour ago, McCall said:

I think if they had teams 100% based out of their home markets like in 2020 and not flying in and out of Arlington every week, it would go a long way to establishing fanbases better. 

I think this is the problem. Even with San Antonio just down the road, they can't have players going back and forth for community events once the season starts, unless they do something the day of the game. And no player wants to do a meet and greet when they are trying to get ready for a game.

 

But the teams' presence in the Arlington hub doesn't explain the absence of the types of  promotion which do not require players to be physically present, such as interviews on sports talk radio stations — not to mention billboards, print ads, and ads on television and radio. 

[MJWalker45]

6 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

But the teams' presence in the Arlington hub doesn't explain the absence of the types of  promotion which do not requires players to be physically present, such as interviews on sports talk radio stations — not to mention billboards, print ads, and ads on television and radio. 

It shouldn't, but I wonder if the idea is that they don't want to have the other teams looking at Arlington specific XFL promotion. That still shouldn't limit them promoting the entire league. 

[gosioux76]

1 hour ago, McCall said:

I think if they had teams 100% based out of their home markets like in 2020 and not flying in and out of Arlington every week, it would go a long way to establishing fanbases better. I still don't, however, think Vegas is a good fit. Birmingham and Memphis would be good relocation/expansion targets (along with San Diego) if they weren't already in the USFL. If that went under and the XFL was still going, then I'd definitely look at bringing them into the fold.

 

This is a great point.

 

I know in 2020, the Battlehawks did a lot of outreach to youth leagues and other community organizations just to build brand awareness. Clearly, it worked, because fans immediately embraced the team.

 

I have to wonder if the XFL wasn't hoping to see some degree of the St. Louis experience in other markets. Here in STL, there's also little to no local marketing, but they don't need to because by turning into this massive party, it guarantees news coverage. Plenty of free media. 

 

St. Louis and San Antonio are the real outlier markets in this league. They're cities that have either been scorned or overlooked by the NFL and with NFL-viable stadiums and minimal competing events in their own market. In that situation, the XFL will be treated like a main event, whereas in Dallas/Seattle/DC/Houston it's a fringe sports offering. 

 

That doesn't explain Orlando, of course, but as others have said, this XFL iteration could be an aberration considering that market's relative success in other spring leagues. 

[GDAWG]

1 hour ago, GDAWG said:

 

Non existent in DFW, probably because the team is named the Arlington Renegades, but that doesn't mean they can't promote to Dallas County.  Yes, the NHL and NBA teams use the city name Dallas, but both teams heavily market and promote themselves in Tarrant County (where Arlington is).  The Stars themselves have StarCenters (ice skating/Youth hockey venues) in Mansfield and Euless, both in Tarrant County.  Likewise, the Texas Rangers play in Arlington, but has a youth academy in Dallas.    

 

Just to add on to this that I forgot to mention: The Mavericks promote heavily in Tarrant County by having players on the Mavericks hosting basketball camps there or going to visit schools and food shelters in Tarrant County.  Likewise, FC Dallas owns their MLS Next Pro Team, North Texas SC based in Arlington (at the same stadium as the Renegades).  The Renegades do none of that, and going to a meet and greet in at the Parks Mall in Arlington doesn't count because it's in Arlington.  

 

Based on what I can tell on their website, the Anaheim Ducks also do a lot marketing in San Diego, which makes sense because their primary affiliate is the San Diego Gulls of the AHL, which they own.  The Renegades don't even market to the rest of Tarrant County, just Arlington, Texas.  

 

The Renegades are the only pro team in Arlington that doesn't market itself in Dallas County.  The rest of the Arlington based teams (Rangers, Dallas Cowboys and Dallas Wings) do that.  

 

Even the weirdly named Panther City FC (based in Forth Worth) wants to promote box lacrosse all over the DFW area and does so with youth clinics and school programs.  

[McCall]

41 minutes ago, gosioux76 said:

 

This is a great point.

 

I know in 2020, the Battlehawks did a lot of outreach to youth leagues and other community organizations just to build brand awareness. Clearly, it worked, because fans immediately embraced the team.

 

I have to wonder if the XFL wasn't hoping to see some degree of the St. Louis experience in other markets. Here in STL, there's also little to no local marketing, but they don't need to because by turning into this massive party, it guarantees news coverage. Plenty of free media. 

 

St. Louis and San Antonio are the real outlier markets in this league. They're cities that have either been scorned or overlooked by the NFL and with NFL-viable stadiums and minimal competing events in their own market. In that situation, the XFL will be treated like a main event, whereas in Dallas/Seattle/DC/Houston it's a fringe sports offering. 

 

That doesn't explain Orlando, of course, but as others have said, this XFL iteration could be an aberration considering that market's relative success in other spring leagues. 

Orlando's been burned by numerous Spring Leagues folding on them. Maybe they're just not getting their hopes up that this one will last, coupled with a not great on-field product... and not ideal stadium. Because honestly, them St. Louis, San Antonio, San Diego, Memphis and Birmingham should be the pillars of spring league football. I think for Orlando, their previous success in fan support is also largely driven by the fact that they know they'll NEVER have an NFL team. Even if the Jags left Jacksonville, Orlando's probably too close to Tampa Bay for 2 teams to co-exist. So spring league football should be ideal for them. Just need one to stick.

[See Red]

It helped that Orlando's AAF team was coached by Steve Spurrier.  His involvement alone generated interest among Florida fans, and there's a lot of them in Central Florida.  The AAF is the only spring league I've really gotten into and it's owed entirely to his involvement.

[MJWalker45]

1 hour ago, See Red said:

It helped that Orlando's AAF team was coached by Steve Spurrier.  His involvement alone generated interest among Florida fans, and there's a lot of them in Central Florida.  The AAF is the only spring league I've really gotten into and it's owed entirely to his involvement.

So maybe Shane Matthews should be head coach next year? Would that make a difference? I know plenty of people in San Antonio would be happy to see the backside of Hines Ward already, but the biggest issue last week was Sinnett was moving the ball, then he broke his foot. I'm actually surprised Jawon Pass hadn't made an appearance yet this year. 

[McCall]

Tim Tebow , Head Coach - Orlando Guardians

[See Red]

1 hour ago, MJWalker45 said:

So maybe Shane Matthews should be head coach next year? Would that make a difference? I know plenty of people in San Antonio would be happy to see the backside of Hines Ward already, but the biggest issue last week was Sinnett was moving the ball, then he broke his foot. I'm actually surprised Jawon Pass hadn't made an appearance yet this year. 

 

Yeah, I don't know. He'd been OC for one of the Gainesville High Schools so that would be a pretty big leap. Plus his playcalling hasn't been impressive for the Guardians so far. 

 

It does seem like they tried to draw some interest off of the CFB programs with a former Seminole in Buckley and Matthews calling plays. It's just neither of them are any good and Buckley is unlikable to boot.  The Spurrier thing's almost impossible to replicate.   Legendary player and coach of the local college's team in a college football crazy state. He left the program near his peak on good terms, is still associated with the school, and was one of the all-time great coaches. 

 

17 minutes ago, McCall said:

Tim Tebow , Head Coach - Orlando Guardians

 

I stand corrected... Florida fans would show up for Tebow. He just doesn't come with the guarantee that the team will be well-coached. 

[CS85]

How well-liked is Deion Sanders in Florida?  Assuming he flames out in Colorado, the XFL would be a logical landing spot. 

[Cujo]

3 hours ago, MJWalker45 said:

It helped that Orlando's AAF team was coached by Steve Spurrier.

 

Would the needle move if Jeff Fisher, who just bailed the USFL, joined up the St. Louis Battlehawks? And what would their record be?