North American Pro Soccer 2023

[Digby]

Quote

During the MLS match between New York Red Bulls and New England Revolution on July 8, an officiating error was made in the third minute of additional time at the end of the second half when the match officials incorrectly disallowed a goal.

A goal was scored by New England’s Andrew Farrell. New England’s Giacomo Vrioni was standing in an offside position between Farrell and the New York goalkeeper, Carlos Coronel. As the ball came close to New York’s Tom Barlow, he reached out and deflected the ball, causing Coronel to miss the ball as it went into the goal.

The VAR reviewed the angles and did not see the ball deflect and thought the goalkeeper was impacted by Vrioni in the offside position. He, therefore, recommended an on-field review. The referee, who also did not see this deflection, accepted the review and the goal was disallowed.

PRO acknowledges that an error was made, and the goal should have been allowed.

 

One ref making a mistake is fine, two is not. What is the point of VAR otherwise? This certainly cost New England a point in the standings, plus it was a total banger of a goal from Andrew Farrell of all people, which makes it doubly tragic.

[Dilbert]

12 hours ago, Digby said:

 

One ref making a mistake is fine, two is not. What is the point of VAR otherwise? This certainly cost New England a point in the standings, plus it was a total banger of a goal from Andrew Farrell of all people, which makes it doubly tragic.

I firmly believe that VAR should make the final call, and not the on field official. Why would you make an incorrect call, be shown video evidence that your call was wrong, and still be like " Nah, I know the call is wrong, but Im gonna keep the original wrong call ruling, despite seeing video evidence I was wrong."

[GDAWG]

 

[GDAWG]

 

[McCall]

1 hour ago, GDAWG said:

 

Yeesh. Sounds like things could get Messi.

[GDAWG]

This:

 

USL set to vote on promotion/relegation in August - source - ESPN

 

Has led USL fans on Reddit thinking USL can compete with MLS.  

[MJWalker45]

5 hours ago, GDAWG said:

This:

 

USL set to vote on promotion/relegation in August - source - ESPN

 

Has led USL fans on Reddit thinking USL can compete with MLS.  

Until US Soccer agrees, this isn't happening. I think they'll look at it as the rest case for a full pro/rel pyramid, but that would be at least a decade until that would come into force with MLS included. If the financials don't improve it will be pretty easy for US Soccer to not consider applying it up and down the pyramid. And as long as league commissioners have a vote, MLS won't agree and would have to overruled by a large margin to force the change.

[gosioux76]

10 hours ago, GDAWG said:

This:

 

USL set to vote on promotion/relegation in August - source - ESPN

 

Has led USL fans on Reddit thinking USL can compete with MLS.  

 

This would be a brilliant move for USL. The gap between Championship and Leagues 1 and 2, at least in terms of stadium infrastructure, isn't so vast that a lower league team would stand out in the higher divisions. Can't say the same thing for the gap between Championship and MLS.

 

While this might make the USL more intriguing for casual fans, I wouldn't harbor any notion that it would make it competitive with MLS. It's apples to oranges, in terms of the quality of the players, what they're paid and the standard of stadium infrastructure. It's like putting a AA baseball team with one of those quaint stadiums that allows fans to lounge on the grass behind the outfield fence in the majors for a season. 

 

That's not to say that the USL can't grow and edge closer to MLS. But a lot of capital would have to be invested in the next 10 to 20 years for it to get even close to that standard. 

[MJWalker45]

6 minutes ago, gosioux76 said:

 

This would be a brilliant move for USL. The gap between Championship and Leagues 1 and 2, at least in terms of stadium infrastructure, isn't so vast that a lower league team would stand out in the higher divisions. Can't say the same thing for the gap between Championship and MLS.

 

While this might make the USL more intriguing for casual fans, I wouldn't harbor any notion that it would make it competitive with MLS. It's apples to oranges, in terms of the quality of the players, what they're paid and the standard of stadium infrastructure. It's like putting a AA baseball team with one of those quaint stadiums that allows fans to lounge on the grass behind the outfield fence to play a season in the majors. 

 

That's not to say that the USL can't grow and edge closer to MLS. But a lot of capital would have to be invested in the next 10 to 20 years for it to get even close to that standard. 

And unless ESPN is willing to give them a contract that's even half of what MLS has with Apple, it ain't happening. 

[gosioux76]

Interesting detail in The Athletic's story. A big unanswered question for the USL is how they'd handle meeting the U.S. Soccer Federation's Professional League Standards, which set a baseline for inclusion in pro leagues, such as market size, the wealth of a club's owner and stadium size.  

 

Would, for example, the team in Greenville, South Carolina, which plays at Furman University's football stadium and is owned by the founder of a local advertising firm, meet the USSF standards to join the Championship if the club won promotion? It'll be interesting to see how they work this out. 

[GDAWG]

1 hour ago, gosioux76 said:

 

This would be a brilliant move for USL. The gap between Championship and Leagues 1 and 2, at least in terms of stadium infrastructure, isn't so vast that a lower league team would stand out in the higher divisions. Can't say the same thing for the gap between Championship and MLS.

 

While this might make the USL more intriguing for casual fans, I wouldn't harbor any notion that it would make it competitive with MLS. It's apples to oranges, in terms of the quality of the players, what they're paid and the standard of stadium infrastructure. It's like putting a AA baseball team with one of those quaint stadiums that allows fans to lounge on the grass behind the outfield fence to play a season in the majors. 

 

That's not to say that the USL can't grow and edge closer to MLS. But a lot of capital would have to be invested in the next 10 to 20 years for it to get even close to that standard. 

 

Unless they sell their soul to the Saudis (and alienating their entire fanbase) it seems like a longshot.  They would also have to compete for elite level players and they don't have the cash (or the markets) to convince Neymar or M'bappe to play in their league when either one of them could end up signing with either LA teams or either New York teams in MLS if they ever chose to.  

[Dilbert]

Im interested in how this plays out. Especially with the USSF division standards. Some teams dont even meet the standards of moving up to DII, and dont even have their own venue to make renovations to meet those standards. Plus USL has for the last several years been trying to get teams out of baseball stadiums and into their own soccer specific venues, but it has been a very slow and tedious process, that as a result, Reno and Fresno dropped out of the USL Championship entirely (Fresno has since returned to USL1 at the 1,000 seat Fresno State Soccer Stadium, while picking up where Fresno FC left off in trying to build a new stadium). Efforts for new stadiums are underway for El Paso, Indy, Iowa, Memphis, Milwaukee, New Mexico, Oakland, Oklahoma City, Pawtucket, Sacramento, Fresno, Greenville, Lexington, Knoxville, Omaha, Santa Barbara, Spokane, and Brooklyn, as well as Northwest Arkansas announced today, but most of these projects has seen little movement, public funding support and other issues that are slowing down the efforts. Projects in Queens and Fort Worth have recently failed entirely and have been abandoned.

 

	DI		DII		DIII		Indoor
	Men	Women	Men	Women	Men	Women
Teams	12	8	8	6	8	6
	(Year 3: 14)	(Year 4: 10)	(Year 3: 10, Year 6: 12)	(Year 3:   8
Req. Participation	All eligible CONCACAF competitions				Open Cup
Geographic Coverage	Eastern, Central, and Pacific time zones	Two time zones
		(Year 6: Eastern, Central, and Pacific time zones)
Market Population	>75% with >1mil	>75% with >750k		>50% with >500k
Min. Stadium Capacity	15,000	5,000		2,000	1,000
Lease Lead	180 days	120 days
Bond	$1mil	$100k	$750k	$50k	$250k	$20k
Time Guarantee	5 years	3 years
Primary Owner Worth	$40mil	$15mil	$20mil	$7.5mil	$10mil	$5mil	$3mil

[BrySmalls]

31 minutes ago, Dilbert said:

Im interested in how this plays out. Especially with the USSF division standards. Some teams dont even meet the standards of moving up to DII, and dont even have their own venue to make renovations to meet those standards. Plus USL has for the last several years been trying to get teams out of baseball stadiums and into their own soccer specific venues, but it has been a very slow and tedious process, that as a result, Reno and Fresno dropped out of the USL Championship entirely (Fresno has since returned to USL1 at the 1,000 seat Fresno State Soccer Stadium, while picking up where Fresno FC left off in trying to build a new stadium). Efforts for new stadiums are underway for El Paso, Indy, Iowa, Memphis, Milwaukee, New Mexico, Oakland, Oklahoma City, Pawtucket, Sacramento, Fresno, Greenville, Lexington, Knoxville, Omaha, Santa Barbara, Spokane, and Brooklyn, as well as Northwest Arkansas announced today, but most of these projects has seen little movement, public funding support and other issues that are slowing down the efforts. Projects in Queens and Fort Worth have recently failed entirely and have been abandoned.

 

	DI		DII		DIII		Indoor
	Men	Women	Men	Women	Men	Women
Teams	12	8	8	6	8	6
	(Year 3: 14)	(Year 4: 10)	(Year 3: 10, Year 6: 12)	(Year 3:   8
Req. Participation	All eligible CONCACAF competitions				Open Cup
Geographic Coverage	Eastern, Central, and Pacific time zones	Two time zones
		(Year 6: Eastern, Central, and Pacific time zones)
Market Population	>75% with >1mil	>75% with >750k		>50% with >500k
Min. Stadium Capacity	15,000	5,000		2,000	1,000
Lease Lead	180 days	120 days
Bond	$1mil	$100k	$750k	$50k	$250k	$20k
Time Guarantee	5 years	3 years
Primary Owner Worth	$40mil	$15mil	$20mil	$7.5mil	$10mil	$5mil	$3mil

 

Not going to lie, it would be funny if Fresno gets promoted to USL Championship and still has a 1,000-capacity stadium.

[Digby]

I kind of interpret the ploy as "we don't care about the USSF standards if we get enough people paying for our product and taking it seriously enough". I have my doubts about that part of it but it still might be compelling enough to enhance the minor league product somewhat.

 

Important point is that for now the plan would be between Championship and League 1 only, plus a new league in between the two. League 2 would be left out of the pro/rel pyramid, which I guess makes sense as that's still all amateur (right?). If this is what it takes to abandon that godawful idea to copy England's confusing league name structure, then I support it.

[Dilbert]

On 7/8/2023 at 11:51 PM, Dilbert said:

I said it before and Ill say it again. Ted Unkel is the Angel Hernandez of soccer.

I retract my statement. After seeing the mess of last weekends Columbus-NYCFC match, and last nights Nashville-Philadelphia match, Sergii Boiko is the new Ted Unkel. Dude has no control over any of his games. in his 11 games this year (2 USL) he has issued 67 yellows, 9 reds, has called 261 fouls and awarded 7 penalties.  1 yellow was on the coach for USL Birmingham, and two reds on the Columbus coaching staff. His last two games alone he has issued 17 yellows and 6 reds.

EDIT: Add another yellow. Not in the report, but Nashville coach Gary Smith said he also got a yellow for dropping the f-bomb.

[MJWalker45]

11 minutes ago, Dilbert said:

I retract my statement. After seeing the mess of last weekends Columbus-NYCFC match, and last nights Nashville-Philadelphia match, Sergii Boiko is the new Ted Unkel. Dude has no control over any of his games. in his 11 games this year (2 USL) he has issued 67 yellows, 9 reds, has called 261 fouls and awarded 7 penalties.  1 yellow was on the coach for USL Birmingham, and two reds on the Columbus coaching staff. His last two games alone he has issued 17 yellows and 6 reds.

This guy is a joke, and just as bad is Christine Unkel backing him. 

[GDAWG]

 

[Dilbert]

I know many of us were on Boiko watch in Chicago, but he apparently had an okay game. Instead the referee of the night was in Cincinnati and once again, Nashville was on the wrong side for the official. Ramy Touchan, had no control, missed several fouls both sides, called several soft fouls on both sides. He tried to get a fan kicked out because he didnt give the Nashville player the ball, after it went out of play and he instead threw it back on the field beside the player. Held up play to yell at the fan and Pat Noonan. (Rule says you have to return the ball to the field, doesnt say you have to hand it to the player). Then he yellow carded a Nashville player, completely forgetting it was his second yellow and had to run back over to show the red. Nashville then lost their composure and another player picked up a second red. Thats two straight games for Nashville to lose 2 men to red cards. Cincinnati won 3-1 but it was a  strange game. Week after week its one show after the other when it comes to PRO referees.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Not only can't you find a Messi jersey for sale on MLSshop.com, you also can't customize a Miami shirt with 10 and MESSI.

 

How is that possible?

[Sykotyk]

This is going to veer toward Fantasy forum territory, but the big issue with pro/rel in the US and why it will NEVER happen is the fact that teams paid to be in the MLS to begin with. They're not leaving without getting reimbursed, etc.

 

However, one possibility would be the concept of a 'guest spot' in MLS for a USL team.

 

For instance, if there's 32 teams, add 2 'guest spots' for USL teams. Such as the best team in 2023 and the playoff winner (if different) gets to join MLS for the 24 season. After the season, the 24 best team gets to play in MLS, while the previous best team plays a two-game series against the second best 24 USL team to stay up.

Regardless where they finish in MLS. The one will always drop back down for at least a year. The other gets a shot at staying up for one more year. After that second year, they'd drop no matter what. So, at best 2 of 3 years in MLS. Unless they go through with actually getting an expansion team for MLS in the future.

 

You get 'pro/rel' in some form from below, but the MLS teams stay MLS, regardless of outcome.